Recruiting a safety that is a safety
Why is it hard to find safety prospects that can remain a safety? Is it simply due to the slower game speed of HS? It is not that many can't be converted, but it seems like the highest rated ones we get normally are. It would put Brown, Mouton, Smith, MRob (speculation) at LB along with Bell (lower rated than the others). Luckily Vlad seems to have stuck with Gordon being (TBD), but obviously the depth is very thin.
My guess is that a bigger player like Smith, creates a big presence in the defensive backfield in HS, but seems destined for a position move due to size and speed. Why do the ratings groups not take this into account when they rate safeties since it seems to be a detractor due to a required move? Are we not using the talent correctly (I would assume this is not the case)?
Obviously, you take the best talent you can get and place it somewhere on the field. No complaints there. As a personal wish, I just keep waiting for that terror at safety that can cover the field and hit. I keep thinking we are getting him and then he is lined up elsewhere.
April 20th, 2009 at 10:00 AM ^
One big trend that started in the 1990s was that people tried to get more and more speed on the defensive side of the ball. Therefore, DEs turned into DTs, LBs turned into DEs, safeties turned into LBs, and CBs turned into safeties.
Also, high school teams tend to put their best athletes at safety. It allows them to read the quarterback, play centerfield, and make up for everyone else's mistakes. It's just like putting your best offensive player at QB (see: Steve Breaston, Jeremy Gallon, TJ Duckett, etc.) when they're destined to be something else.
As far as recruiting rankings go, it's hard to say. The recruiting services might rank a kid one way because that's the position he currently plays, but different colleges might be recruiting him for different positions. For example, Anthony Lalota was listed as an OT by Scout for most of the 2009 recruiting cycle.
When I first heard about Luke Muncie, he was ranked as a safety. He plays safety in his film. But after watching a few minutes of his video, I listed him as a linebacker on my recruiting post because I'm pretty sure that's where he'll end up.
Position switches happen all the time, though. Some people thought Martell Webb was going to be a WR. Troy Woolfolk was supposed to be a CB, but now he's playing safety. Brandon Graham was supposed to be a MIKE, but now he's playing DE. It might happen a little more frequently with safeties, but I don't think the safety position is any kind of great anomaly.
April 20th, 2009 at 11:37 AM ^
I was reading a story on how Florida's starting 2 from last year (Wright and someone else) were getting pushed hard by their backups and potentially replaced. How do we find those guys, it seems that we have been in the wilderness in regards to safety play for a while. It just seems like an odd gap to have on our team.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:21 PM ^
I have been wondering the same. I think it's worth noting that Woolfolk was shifted to Safety. Maybe we recruit HS corners to play safety, maybe we just recruit big/strong safeties for LB and smaller faster safeties (e.g. Latwan) to stay put.
It is certainly frustrating to bring in first rate guys at a position of need and not get to use the talent there.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:18 PM ^
First two points are exactly right. HS teams herd great athletes to positions like QB, RB, MLB and FS where they can maximize their involvement. And college teams (indeed starting in 90's, I believe with FL teams) now try to shift recruits to the next bigger/"slower" position (as described) to be unusually fast there, if undersized, rather than having someone with poor or mediocre speed on the field.
My question is: if we keep recruiting 6'2" 215# safeties and converting them to LB, why are we so thin at LB?
We're not that thin at linebacker. We're just short on experienced linebackers.
Ezeh
Demens
Fitzgerald
Mouton
Hawthorne
Smith
Bell and/or Jones
Herron
Evans
Brown
Those are the scholarship LBs I can think of off the top of my head. That's 10 or 11 guys fighting for 3 or 4 spots.
I guess we will be ok provided a few pan out.
I think Mouton and Ezeh will both be serviceable to good. It seems like Ezeh has been around for a while, but he and Mouton were only redshirt sophomores last year. It's just that we can never seem to find a good third linebacker (C. Graham, Thompson, Evans, etc.).
I think either Demens or Fitzgerald will play the SAM this year and be serviceable to good at that spot. Both of those guys are big bodies who were highly rated. Between the two of them, one will be good enough (prediction: JB).
Magnus or WolvinLA, do you know anything about the linebackers who aren't Fitzgerald, Ezeh, or Mouton that makes you optimistic? I haven't really heard anything, good or bad, about any of the other guys (except Stevie Brown). Referencing WolvinLA's post, do you know if Demens is good enough to see the field yet?
Honestly, I've heard some, but little, good news about any LB that isn't the three you listed. Evans and Herron get their name thrown around, but I think that's more because they are the only 2 older guys in the LB group. Now that Demens has put on some weight, I think he will most past those 2. The other nice thing about Kenny Demens is that, based on his size and speed, he could likely play all 3 of the LB spots if it was needed. I wouldn't be surprised if the 3 you named, Ezeh, Mouton and JB were the starters, and Demens was the utility back-up at 2 or even 3 of those spots.
I have not had a high opinion of Demens since he came out of high school, so I'm not optimistic about him. That being said, he has ascended the depth chart, but I think that's partly because there aren't many players older/more experienced than him and both Witherspoon and Hill transferred before last year.
I am optimistic about Brandon Smith, although I don't think he'll make an impact until 2010 or even 2011.
Thanks guys, that is kind of comforting, I guess. Hopefully our starters are much improved and they stay really healthy this season. For the future, I really hope that Brandon Smith turns out to be a beast
April 20th, 2009 at 10:05 AM ^
Is always going to be on of the hardest places to fill because by nature it is a tweener spot. You have to have a great feel for the game as to when to lay back and lay the wood on a receiver or come up with the big pick. Safeties also have the responsibility to come up and support the front 7 with run support. Theres also the complexity of blitzing and falling into zone defense schemes. You have to do all this while knowing in the back of your head that if you are a split second late, you just gave up a touchdown.
In highschool, safeties tend to be ball hawking athletes who tend to show up all over the field. As the speed of the game and competition pick up at the next level, bigger guys tend to move down into the box to create a dynamic linebacker who can run sideline to sideline. Most safeties that get converted to linebacker cant stick to a receiver or have the closing burst required at the college level. Then theres smaller guys who can stick to receivers and have that closing burst. These players usually end up as a corner because you cant ever have enough lockdown corners.
In the end, it takes a very special breed of player to excel at safety. As us michigan fans know, good safety play can make the difference in a huge win or a embarrassing loss.
April 20th, 2009 at 10:58 AM ^
His size says lber...his play showed otherwise. If TM would have chose Michigan,he would have been playing lber...no doubt.
April 20th, 2009 at 10:14 AM ^
that a speedy corner who has sorta crappy one on one coverage skills might bulk up to play safety?
April 20th, 2009 at 10:23 AM ^
Morgan Trent?
April 20th, 2009 at 11:04 AM ^
Rod Woodson moved to safety after his speed and cover skills had eroded, for example.
April 20th, 2009 at 11:28 AM ^
At the same time, guys like Ronnie Lott and Carnell Lake moved to safety in their prime, even though they were good cornerbacks. They were just deemed to be more valuable to their teams as safeties.
April 20th, 2009 at 12:08 PM ^
Ronnie *The Torpedo* Lott. Best ever to play that position in my era...I'm talking jaw jarring hits.
April 20th, 2009 at 10:27 AM ^
One of the main reasons is that their body is still filling out. Now, it is also true that at the highschool level prospects can dominate competition in a way that they can't in college. They need to be the right fit for the right defense.
I think the point is, why has Michigan had so much trouble finding competent safeties when other teams seem to have them stacked ten high?
I don't think we were saying teams stacked ten high with safeties when Mario Manningham and Chad Henne were connecting on long TD after long TD...
USC has good safeties consistently, but I could have plugged any position in for "safeties" and it would have been accurate. I don't think good safeties are as frequent as you're implying.
Does anyone know (or care to guess) why it took so long to switch Smith to LB (compared to other guys who "switch" before they even show up)? I know he really wanted to stay at safety and was keeping his weight down before enrolling, but couldn't they have made the switch sooner...like last year? Do you think they were expecting his coverage skills, speed or whatever to improve by now? Had Vlad gone elsewhere would he still be at safety? Do you think if he'd been practicing at LB from day one he would be a sure starter this year? It just seems a shame to have to wait another year for this guy to see the field, unless of course he's a really fast learner...or not that good.
Vlad is playing safety.
Lest we forget, Ernest Shazor.
The name just makes me smile.
was switched to saftey and Cato June to linebacker for the colts. It happens at all levels. You put your best eleven players together on the field.