Question for the board: Can Kwity Paye be a solid DT option for us
So I went back and watched the Minnesota game and liked a lot of what I saw on both sides of the ball, but DT and quick middle of the pocket penetration still seems to be an issue for us. Obviously, I worry about us having a game or two where we get run all over for like 6 yards per carry. CB will probably also be an issue, but a good D-line can help mitigate a lot of issues in the secondary.
Anyways, I noticed Paye lining up over the guard on a couple plays when it was most likely a passing down, and he was getting a great jump and penetration. He had a sack on one of these, and a QB hurry on another. He is listed at 6'4, 270 pounds, btw. So...I'm not an expert here and get that he may be a bit tall and his leverage is better for a DE, but is it possible that Paye can take some more snaps on the inside if we have DT problems?
Can his explosiveness help to blow up the middle of the line and help stuff out run plays? I get that he is elite on the edge (but so is Hutchinson), so is it possible that it could it help the team if he takes more snaps over the guard and center, particularly on short yardage/run situations?
October 29th, 2020 at 10:39 PM ^
Only on passing downs. He'd be wasted inside. Also our backup DE situation is very weak.
October 29th, 2020 at 11:19 PM ^
I like Upshaw quite a bit actually. Think he's going to step up once Paye and Hutchinson get drafted. That being said, it's probably more advisable to have Hinton or Jeter get the reps and hope they step up, and keep Paye where he's most dangerous.
A lot of core guys on the line are going likely going to move on next season (Paye, Hutchinson, Kemp), so these guys need to emerge anyways as at least rotational pieces.
October 30th, 2020 at 6:56 AM ^
Paye and Hutchinson are possible All America's and you think the next guy will be a step up?
October 30th, 2020 at 8:15 AM ^
I think what the poster was saying was, once Paye and Hutchinson are gone, Upshaw will himself step up and be a decent replacement--not that Upshaw is going to exceed what Paye and/or Hutchinson provide. Those guys are legit potential All-Americans so it's going to be hard to replace them for sure.
October 30th, 2020 at 9:44 AM ^
Yep, that's precisely it. Obviously he won't out perform 2 guys who should be first rounders right now, but I can see him being one of the guys who can fill their absence with only medium drop off. Going to keep an eye out when he rotates in.
October 30th, 2020 at 10:22 AM ^
I like Upshaw's potential too. But for this season? Probably not.
October 29th, 2020 at 10:39 PM ^
What are you doing posting here? Go tell Nua and Brown stat, no way they've thought about this over the extended off-season!
October 29th, 2020 at 11:08 PM ^
Will do! Your mom's been keeping me super busy these days, but once she gets her tongue off my taint tonight, I'll give them a call.
October 30th, 2020 at 12:18 AM ^
If trees could scream, would we still cut them down?
October 30th, 2020 at 5:03 AM ^
the chainsaw noise really drowns the screams out.....
October 30th, 2020 at 9:10 AM ^
Some people would and some people would freak out about it. It would become a polarizing issue with each side thinking the other side was immoral and or stupid.
October 30th, 2020 at 8:11 AM ^
What? Are we back in middle school now?
October 30th, 2020 at 11:57 AM ^
I'm rubber and youre glue. Whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you!
October 29th, 2020 at 10:45 PM ^
Can Lassie save Timmy from falling down the well?
October 29th, 2020 at 10:59 PM ^
Timmy never met a well he didn't fall for.
October 29th, 2020 at 10:49 PM ^
Hasn't he been playing DT in our pass rush package for three years now?
As for run downs... no.
October 29th, 2020 at 11:03 PM ^
Guy!guys! I’ve got this great idea. I saw a guy playing out of position for a couple plays last game and obs he’s gonna be great even though he’s a senior at his current position and thirty pounds too light. Let’s do it!
October 29th, 2020 at 11:03 PM ^
That's really not his job or in his list of duties... probably would have to go to HR for that.
October 29th, 2020 at 11:08 PM ^
No we need to recruit better DT's and until then, play the hand dealt.
October 29th, 2020 at 11:19 PM ^
Hopefully it does not come to that
October 29th, 2020 at 11:24 PM ^
I don’t know if that would Paye off.
October 30th, 2020 at 5:11 AM ^
Would you just kwit it...
October 29th, 2020 at 11:46 PM ^
It seems like Brown’s been schematically papering over the DT situation as best he can so I think if Kwity was the answer they’d have already gone that way. His upside is probably much larger at DE so there’s an opportunity cost there. Decent thought experiment but I don’t see the payoff being large enough to risk the change.
October 29th, 2020 at 11:48 PM ^
My preferred solution is to suit Nua up and give him an extremely large visor.
October 29th, 2020 at 11:52 PM ^
No, of course not.
You don't take someone who is really good at something and move them to a spot where they are not as good. That removes a really good player from one position to get a replacement-level player at another. Every team we played would breathe a huge sigh of relief if they did that. It just isn't an idea people would consider.
Kind of a hyper-caffeinated version of the whole "Bredeson to tackle" talk that was discussed literally every season of his career because there were rumors of him competing for the tackle position in his freshman year training camp. Then he went to guard, a natural position for him, a position that he played well, and there was never any chance he would move. But people still brought it up every year.
October 30th, 2020 at 6:54 AM ^
In general, I agree with you - yet there are certainly circumstances where the end result (two replacement players of moderate skill at those positions) may still be better than the alternative (one outstanding player at their regular position and a bad replacement player at another position).
This is probably not one of those scenarios, but any good coach would likely try whatever player movement possible to maximize the unit performance.
October 30th, 2020 at 12:35 AM ^
As other posters have mentioned, Paye is too light to be a full-time DT, and we’d be trading an All-American level DE for a serviceable (at best) DT.
I found it quite hopeful that the four DTs who had significant snaps all had nice plays when they were single blocked vs. Minnesota (which wasn’t often). If they can create a little havoc when single blocked in future games, it could punish teams that double Paye and Hutchinson like OSU did last year. I know MSU’s O-line is not very good, but this weekend should yield some more data about whether or not the DTs can win when single blocked. If they can, we’re in business.
October 30th, 2020 at 8:16 AM ^
Very promising. If you’re going to double a DT, you’re leaving two borderline All-Americans either singled up or requiring a RB/TE help to block them, meaning significant numbers advantage for the Michigan D. If you choose to double the DE’s, it’s nice knowing the DTs showed flashes of penetration and playmaking ability.
October 30th, 2020 at 1:13 AM ^
And I just watched this episode tonight.
October 30th, 2020 at 12:51 AM ^
what about the goat Donovan Jeter?? He is tied for the teams most touchdowns!!
October 30th, 2020 at 7:18 AM ^
Objectively, the DTs did fine-held their own. The concern discussion regarding shoring up the defense would more appropriately be about the LBs and safeties. The front four was regularly requiring/occupying 6 blockers-even seven...or 8 if you include the QB. So the question for me is "Why weren't Michigan's other 7 playing against 4 or 5-or even 3 more effective?".
October 30th, 2020 at 8:39 AM ^
I have the solution! Let's put our fullback at defensive tackle. I'm sure that will work.
October 30th, 2020 at 9:12 AM ^
If that was your route Hutchinson would be the better option to move inside. The dude can push the pile.
October 30th, 2020 at 9:21 AM ^
Answer from the board: NO
October 30th, 2020 at 9:29 AM ^
I'm never on board with taking a player who's great at his position, and forcing him to be mediocre while playing out of position.
See: Ben Mason
Just pray that the DTs make progress game by game.
October 30th, 2020 at 9:56 AM ^
It’s a generally valid question and some Mgobloggers have even joked about J Glasgow at DT after the UW game since Brown tinkers with front 7 alignments so frequently.
1. I think people are overly negative about the DTs. Jeter, Hinton and Julius did OK in Minny. Brown clearly opted to give some yards on the ground instead of passing and a lot of yards were caused by poor run fits/contain by LBs and Paige.
2. Paye setting the edge on running plays is equally important to DT penetration or holding the interior POA. Plus, his effectiveness would rapidly diminish with high snap count at DT.
3. The frequent stunts on pass downs also equate the DT position to DE since Paye will end up rushing against the tackle gaps. Assignments have much less bearing on alignment in passing downs.
October 30th, 2020 at 11:14 AM ^
No.
DBs, not DTs are the issue.
And Paye's pass rush helps the DBs.
October 30th, 2020 at 12:51 PM ^
Gimmie more Welschof.
October 30th, 2020 at 3:51 PM ^
Brown has shown, that on obvious passing downs, he's going to go with 4 (sometimes 3) pass rushers. That's usually all DE-type players. That being the case, one or two of them is gonna line up inside. It appears that Welschof might be part of that package, so you do have an interior-oriented player involved. It's all about putting players in position to succeed.