Question about defensive alignment
Sorry if this isn't post worthy or was maybe covered elsewhere. I have stayed off the board since the game and am not reading through all the bullshit to see if this has been discussed. Thought about putting it in the defense snowflakes thread but I imagine it'll get overlooked by this point. Anyways...
Against Army, the commentators consistently discussed a "bubble" along Michigan's defensive line and the QB would target that bubble every time with success. So against Wisconsin on their goal-line QB keeper, the announcers again showed the "bubble" and the QB dove through it with very little, if any, resistance from Michigan.
So why the hell is that bubble there? Is it because we are playing three defensive linemen? Would the goal-line not be a good place to play MORE defensive linemen? Should a linebacker be looking to plug that gap and is missing the assignment?
I'm not a football savant but I have never seen this specific thing pointed out so regularly for any team before. Not trying to add anymore negativity or hot takes here, just looking for some football education on why this specific issue keeps coming up. Thanks.
September 23rd, 2019 at 11:23 AM ^
September 23rd, 2019 at 11:25 AM ^
I’ve usually thought highly of Don Brown but the bubble on the goal line (particularly vs Wisconsin and Army) is insane.
On more standard downs defenses will do that to invite a run to that gap and the scheme is to fill/attack it after the snap. Trying to dictate where the ball goes and rally to it. You can also get more pass rushers on the field in those formations
You’ll see it a fair bit on second and long or something like a 3rd and 3. Goal line vs beef? Wtf
September 23rd, 2019 at 11:34 AM ^
The best was Jordan Glasgow in a three point stance on the goal line. This is the best defense and personnel we have on Goal Line? Wow.
September 23rd, 2019 at 12:20 PM ^
I think at one point we were just throwing out gimmicks to see what could work because we knew that we didn't have the DTs to stop them with our base defense. We were completely helpless in our standard formations.
September 23rd, 2019 at 1:00 PM ^
I just see Onwenu in the wrong spot.. he is big but seems a little slow to pick up stunts at OG... I was hoping that we'd have seen him vs Wisconsin, thinking Harbaugh had something up his sleeve, maybe the frosh DTs playing.... was utterly shocked to see the 3 man front and Glasgow with hand down on the goalline.... are both Harbaugh AND Brown on drugs? Are they that delusional? This might work vs spread teams with smaller OL.. but not Wisconsin... not vs the rest of the top half of the Big Ten. Again, Brown seems unaware. Losing Onwenu at OG won't hurt.. for he and Ruiz, and Mayfield, haven't done well...and we supposedly are overly stacked with OG depth. But we need Onwenu at the NT. Period.
September 23rd, 2019 at 2:47 PM ^
Onwenu is going to play guard in the NFL. Even if he could effectively switch to defense at this point in his career (and I’m skeptical) I don’t think you mess with that guy’s future in his final year of eligibility
Trying him as a short yardage nose for a few snaps a game would be intriguing though.
September 23rd, 2019 at 2:38 PM ^
Instead of throwing out gimmicks, why not throw out Mazi Smith and Chris Hinton.
Or maybe Hutch needs to move inside, even if he’s not the perfect DT mold. Walk-on strong safeties and fullbacks (albeit very good at their natural positions) are not the answer.
September 23rd, 2019 at 10:53 PM ^
I can't believe they haven't tried Mazi or Hinton yet. Even if they've been disappointing in practice, there's no way they're worse DTs than Glasgow.
September 23rd, 2019 at 1:33 PM ^
^^^^^^^^^ times 1,000. In a game full of questionable calls, alignment and poor gap integrity. We lined up Jordan Glasgow (not Ryan) against a guard on the goaline. That has to be the most “questionable” of all because we had a 0% chance of winning that matchup. I just don’t get it... and don’t think I ever will.
September 23rd, 2019 at 2:06 PM ^
That was such a dumbass play I want to believe someone lined up wrong. Like there was supposed to be linebacker flanking him and hitting that gap at full speed or something.
September 23rd, 2019 at 12:17 PM ^
On goal line situations you always have guys lined up in the A gap. Idk if it was coaching or players who F’d that up. You want to get a team going east and west on the goal line to allow flow from you backers.
September 23rd, 2019 at 11:30 AM ^
The bubbles in the 4-3 defense are over the Center and the Offensive Tackles. They’re generally about 5yds deep which gives the LBs time to read and react. It's a tempting target to attack that bubble, but if your linebacker can't fill the void, you have a void that will be attacked! We saw Wisconsin players run thru it over and over. The bubbles move depending on the formation. 3-3-5 defenses have different opportunities. I'm no coach but the defensive plays seem overly complicated without a solid basic defensive foundation behind it. Too many missed assignments, switches, and empty bubbles to show me the foundation for a basic defense has been laid.
September 23rd, 2019 at 11:35 AM ^
You are exactly correct. Michigan has enough players to run a fundamental scheme 4 man front. They cannot run a 3-4 due to the lack of a true nose/shade and they sure as hell cannot run a 3-5 as it is NOT sound against the run period! A 3-5 is predicated on having phenomenal linebackers and safeties. Michigan has neither BUT Brown's refusal to play kids like Hill/Hinton/Mazi is simply stupid.
September 23rd, 2019 at 12:21 PM ^
Brown's refusal to play kids like Hill/Hinton/Mazi is simply stupid.
Considering the lack of depth on the DL, the refusal to give any snaps to Hinton and Smith is just weird.
If they're so lacking in size and strength that they're literally unusable, then something's off.
September 23rd, 2019 at 12:23 PM ^
I can understand why he's hesitant to play Hinton and Mazi. True freshman typically come in with poor strength and conditioning and can be pushed around. With that said, you have to at least try it when the other guys are being rag-dolled all over the place.
September 23rd, 2019 at 12:37 PM ^
From everything I've read strength is not an issue with Mazi. Obviously there's more to it than strength, but Kemp/Paye/Mason are playing a lot of snaps-they were in there late into the 4th. With Jeter limited and Dwumfour still out its a mystery to me why Smith and Hinton aren't getting some playing time. Even if you're trying to preserve their RS, let them play some while Jeter and Dwumfour are out/limited
September 23rd, 2019 at 1:49 PM ^
3 man front with 2 DEs under 280
No exotic blitzes from the 2nd level forcing the OL to adjust to a 4th/5th rusher
There it is
Michigan got rid of the wrong coordinator last year
September 23rd, 2019 at 12:50 PM ^
While true, it’s really hard to imagine a scenario where neither could’ve held up better than Glasgow.
September 23rd, 2019 at 11:31 AM ^
I don't know what they are doing with that bubble. It always shows up in short yardage creating an easy pickup. Bizarre.
September 23rd, 2019 at 11:38 AM ^
The bubble has burst.
September 23rd, 2019 at 12:13 PM ^
I see what you did there...
September 23rd, 2019 at 11:39 AM ^
Let's play with 12 defenders. Call Diantonio. .he Can help with the alignment.
September 23rd, 2019 at 11:45 AM ^
Wiscy would have still won even if UM played with 15 defenders.
September 23rd, 2019 at 11:56 AM ^
Well,let's start with 12 and then add as needed.
September 23rd, 2019 at 11:56 AM ^
It was the worst defensive play i have ever seen. On 4th and 1 on the goaline you put your entire damn team save to corners in there and force them to do a pitch out to the side and pray someone has enough lateral speed to chase them down. You do everything in your power to fill those gaps and stop the most obvious play first. It was idiotic by Don Brown.Simply idiotic.
September 23rd, 2019 at 11:57 AM ^
This is what happens when a stubborn 70 year old coach tries new things.
September 23rd, 2019 at 1:06 PM ^
Can we get Durkin back as DC ? I'm serious... I preferred his D to Brown's, have been saying so for over year despite ire from many here... Brown's D I view as unsound. Brown's defense simply allows too many blown assignment big plays.....Doesn't work at all, with undisciplined yet top athletes like Brad Hawkins.
September 23rd, 2019 at 1:12 PM ^
Let's be honest, Durkin wasn't great (Neither was Fisch).
But is Brown a step down from Durkin? Sadly, yes.
I hate Brown's lack of gap integrity. I hate how his defensive edges are never set. I hate his alignments. I hate that he can't scheme anything other than a LB blitzkreig.
I hate his under the radar NE recruits that nobody else can discover except for the Stash himself.
September 23rd, 2019 at 1:23 PM ^
I'd rather have Don Brown than the man responsible for Jordan McNair's death at Maryland.
September 23rd, 2019 at 12:01 PM ^
I asked the same question after the game Saturday. Michigan had one DL lined up directly over the center, and nobody over either guard. Against a team like WI who thrives on running up the middle with 330lb OL and a 260lb hammer at FB, this it seems is inviting failure. But, I like you, am not a defensive football expert. Maybe I'm also missing something more subtle in the strategy of the alignment, but it sure looks M is giving up yards before the snap.
September 23rd, 2019 at 12:09 PM ^
I don't believe there is anything they can do to help the defensive line. They just don't have the players. I expect several more games where opposing offensive lines dominate. All the defense can do is hope for FG's.
The offense will have to light up the scoreboard more times than not. But the offense is dysfunctional.
Expect more L's but hope for continuous offensive improvement.
September 23rd, 2019 at 1:22 PM ^
This ^^^^. Several weeks ago after MTSU game I stated on this board that Michigan did not have the "Jimmy's and the Joe's" to compete in the B10 this year, especially with teams who run power - like WIS, Iowa and MSU. I was lambasted by many of the know-nothing dolts on this board who all were predicting an 11-1 or 10-2 type season. So I really do hate to say it but I TOLD YOU SO.
If you want to know why the DL stinks, consider the following: we lost key recruiting battles at DT with in-state guys; we lost players on the DLine to transfer (see Solomon, Irving-Bey, Hudson - who was recruited as a DT) and we've lost a few to injury (Dwomfour, Paea). Our starters are Donovan Jeter and Ben Mason!! Think about that. I'm guessing there are 10 MAC teams with a more imposing D-Line than Michigan's.
Any team, and I mean any team who can run the football reasonably well between the tackles will give Michigan fits and most likely beat them.
September 23rd, 2019 at 12:09 PM ^
Thanks for posting this, and this post is exactly why snowflakes are bullshit. Damned if I'm going to wade through 250+ posts to find the one that interests me.
September 23rd, 2019 at 12:12 PM ^
Just so many things that need fixed .... use this season to get them fixed and move on.... this one's over already.
September 23rd, 2019 at 12:16 PM ^
Marcus Ray was right ...
September 23rd, 2019 at 1:13 PM ^
So was Jumbo Elliot.
September 23rd, 2019 at 1:31 PM ^
What did Jumbo Elliot say?
September 23rd, 2019 at 2:12 PM ^
So was Braylon Edwards LOL
September 23rd, 2019 at 12:17 PM ^
I never played football beyond 9th grade, but even on our middle school teams, the QBs had exactly ONE audible they were instructed to call.
If they saw an uncovered center or either guard, they were supposed to yell a hot word like “apple” and it was a QB sneak over the uncovered player.
Guaranteed 3-5 yards.
Now, if a 12 year old can do that, it’s might insulting to assume scholarship QBs at Wisconsin or Army can’t.
September 23rd, 2019 at 12:20 PM ^
I'd just like to thank you for making a sensical and actual thread worthy post/question relating to the sport.
I also noticed this and it was quite plain to see that they were going to ram it right up our figurative asses through that glaring gap. I've no clue the purpose of the defensive alignment but do know it had no chance at success. That's where we're at in September 2019. Fun times.
Running this 335 defense I would think a Bear front on goalline situations would be a must but I'm no expert but I also witnessed 2 games in a row teams exploit our gap integrity. How we dont have the players capable of running our 4-3 defense of choice is yet another blunder by this staff.
September 23rd, 2019 at 12:21 PM ^
The "bubble" is there for an LB to quickly fill (theoretically, that is) in run situations like the Army game, but whatever Brown is attempting - at least to me - seems way overthought.
September 23rd, 2019 at 12:55 PM ^
On the ONE YARD LINE?
If we had a cheetah for a LB, even that wouldn’t be fast enough with a QB under center.
September 23rd, 2019 at 12:41 PM ^
Whee is Mike Danna? I didn't see him out there Saturday.
Most teams have a 7-10 man rotation on the D Line, most of our great defenses have had that. We're running a 3 man front with a 4 man rotation, and when that 4th man was in we sometimes went with a 4-3.
Question, did Hutchinson, Paye, or Kemp go out for a single play when our defense was out there? How can anyone think it's OK to give only 3 guys that many snaps? I don't care if the freshman aren't ready, we need them each to play some snaps to save our D Line,
September 23rd, 2019 at 12:48 PM ^
Danna helped blow up one play late.
September 23rd, 2019 at 1:09 PM ^
Danna looks pretty good to me when he plays... seems like the only aware player on the DL.
September 23rd, 2019 at 12:45 PM ^
When Wisconsin had 8 offensive linemen in the game, we still have two safeties and two CB.
September 23rd, 2019 at 2:10 PM ^
Yeah, lapses like that make me wonder about Don Brown....
September 23rd, 2019 at 1:27 PM ^
Why do we recruit 90% DE and very few true DT?
The lack of true DT recruited on this roster is a huge issue.
I know Solomon was one, but even last year we brought in a ton of DE and Mazi Smith.
Hinton isn't even a true DT. Hutch - DE Paye - DE Kemp - DE/LB
This class none?
I don't get it. Where's the beef?
September 23rd, 2019 at 1:33 PM ^
THIS is what has perplexed me. They want DEs to beef up to be DTs. I guess they like the idea of quickness and speed. But if you're getting mashed at the LOS...I guess I don't follow or agree with the strategy.
September 23rd, 2019 at 1:40 PM ^
Hinton is much more of a DT than the other ends they’ve brought in to “convert”. I.e. Kemp, Jeter, welch, Morris ect.
Your point is still solid though. Too many converts & not enough Hurst’s, Taylor’s, Henry’s & Smith’s. Especially considering the clear need there’s been the past 2 years.