Penn State's Mistake of Joining The Big 10...
This take from an ND Blog-
Penn State damaged itself deeply and permanently in 1993.
To appreciate this, one needs to recall the unique national identity they carried into the early '90's. Led by a charming old-school icon with a Teflon image, the Lions were the darlings of the east-coast media which had no other regional team to champion.
Their January, 1987 championship over the fatigue-wearing bad-guys vaulted them into a position which -- dare I say -- temporarily allowed them to steal some of ND's spot as the guys in white hats, the national heroes. They wore old school uniforms, black shoes and could boast of solid (if not elite) graduation rates. They were the antithesis of the thugs whom they shocked, and the New York Times couldn't get enough of them. And, Yes, they were independent, so they enjoyed a growing national profile.
They won legitimate national titles in 1982 and 1986, and came within a goal line stand in the Sugar Bowl of winning another in 1978. Prior to then, Penn State enjoyed several undefeated seasons which resulted in no national championships, due to its very weak schedules. I should also note that their only titles came during seasons when they played Notre Dame and other major independents. By way of major victories, on national television, over powers such as ND, Pitt, and Georgia, Paterno's teams had become a national treasure.
Then in 1993, citing changing landscapes (mostly, financial considerations), Penn State became the eleventh member of the Big Ten. The anonymity associated with their not changing the name of the conference, alone, should have been brutal enough for them to have been insulted.
Over that time they have not won a single national title. Of course, their fans are quick to point out how they were "screwed" out of one in 1994, their second year in the Big Ten. To be fair, they had a very good team that year and I think it's reasonable to project that, had they played Nebraska, it would have been an excellent matchup. In reality -- what Penn State people simply refuse to acknoweldge -- is that their Big Ten affiliation, not the pollsters, was the reason they did not win the trophy. They got stuck drubbing a decent Oregon team for the Roses, while the Huskers enjoyed the prime-time stage, getting to play the role of the good-guys against Miami on January 1.
Yes, they also had a good team in 2005. But, recall that that team struggled to beat a 7-5 Florida State team in the Orange Bowl. By contrast either of the two top powers -- Texas and USC -- would have pummelled PSU. The Lions were no where close to a national title team that season.
Since affiliating, Penn State has been relegated to Ohio State's third to fourth most important game each year. Michigan, at one point, enjoyed an eight game winning streak against the Lions (even during a period of time when the Wolverines had some fairly weak teams). Iowa, too, has enjoyed consistent succcess against Penn State. Their once-notable matchups against in-state rival Pitt also are no more.
A personal note from the 2006 game in South Bend: The best trash-talking Penn State fans could muster my way that day was, "Ha-Ha. Ohio State killed you guys last year." This is life in the Big Ten; this what it had come to. Penn State finding pride only through the successes of its once-hated rival to the West.
The identity of PSU Football remains in its octogenarian leader. When he is soon gone from coaching Penn State, the only thing distiguishing them from Minnesota or Indiana is that Penn State will still be able to boast of a great women's volleyball team.
It was 9 games, dumbass ND blogger.
Right. And the "weakest" Michigan team to beat Penn State during that 9 game winning streak was the 2001 squad which went 8-4 thanks to Drew Henson bolting early. That was during a time where 8-4 was considered the bottom of the barrel for us.
You have to love a Domer fan trying to "prove" the mistake of joining a conference. They've lost 59 games this past decade...without being in a conference. What's their excuse?
... and they will someday, this will be the kind of thing that will be fun to throw in their face.
We will just continue to throw this in their face...
Is it wrong that every time I see this video I want to scream "Sparty Noooo!"? In my defense, it is getting more and more difficult to tell the two teams apart.
Nowhere does it state any reason that joining the Big Ten hurt Penn State.
It simply notes that Penn State has not won a national championship since joining the Big Ten, the incredible aura of being an "independent" in a quaint uniform, and bemoans how far they've fallen from the days when the NYT was taken with an independent who was good at football.
I get it, if ND joins a conference, instead of being an awesome independent that is awesome at football, they could end up like Penn State.
Believe me, ND wishes it could perform like Penn State on the field.
ND also has not won any National Championships since Penn State joined the B10.
That's also when ND started Returning to Glory. Coincidence???
Does that mean if ND joins the Big Ten, the slogan will ned to change to "Returning to Mediocrity"?
Penn State's research budget has increased $200 Million more than ND since joining.
Zing! Oh man that's a deeeeep burn.
since giving up its independence either.
Man, I think the ND blogger is really on to something here.
Rich Rod, forget teaching your players the spread. It's too much trouble and makes you swear too much.
Let's just go independent. Then we'll win multiple National Championships and be considered the "good guys" while doing it.
If Penn State hadn't joined, today they would be a less glamorous version of ND. This post boils down to, joining the Big Ten was bad because now they have to play Ohio State.
I like how the ND blogger talks about independent PSU having undefeated seasons, but not getting any respect to due to their weak schedule. Then the minute they join the B10 they find they have trouble beating the top talent in the conference.
Anyone else care to name another independent that gets its wins off a weak schedule and might be exposed if it had to play a real conference schedule?
I was kinda hoping that armegeddon would have happened so they would only be able to schedule MAC schools and service academies.
Penn State is making much more money in the Big Ten then they would have if they stayed independent. There is only one team that has it's own TV contract, that is ND. Just because they are possibly the most noted football team in history with a bunch of people following them due to either loving them, or hating them, doesn't mean every other independent team that was once could can get the same kind of TV deal. PSU made a smart move money wise, and perhaps them being established as a solid big ten team proves that maybe they were always a solid team, and that maybe the teams they have had in their big ten years haven't been worthy of national titles.
I must admit I didn't get very far. In fact I stopped reading after the author suggested that beating Jimmy Johnson's Miami team "temporarily allowed PSU to steal some of ND's spotlight as national heroes".
ND as the white knight? Give me a f****ing break. More like Evil Empire.
There's plenty in this to disagree with. Even if you believe that Penn State football has suffered, some people in State College believe joining the Big Ten has been positive:
Penn State University is proof positive that associating with the Big Ten would most likely enhance any university, professors and administrators there say.
In 1990, when Penn State joined the conference, the university's professor salaries were lower than those of their new counterparts. Penn State also brought in fewer top-notch students and fewer federal research dollars than many other Big Ten schools, said Nichols, the former faculty president.
Now the college is virtually indistinguishable from other Big Ten schools. It collected and spent some $400 million in federal research money in 2008 — the 15th highest total in the country — and was rated the 15th best public university in the country last year.
Professor salaries have increased. So has the quality of faculty hires, incoming students and virtually every other measurable characteristic, Nichols said.
“I think at Penn State we said, ‘Well, we're a Big Ten university now. Let's act like one,” he said. “It raised the bar.”
If I were a Nittany Lion fan I would be loading up the vehicles to begin a raid on South Bend. Some rampaging through their precious campus is surely warranted by this bullshit.
No, no - that is a MSU thing ...
I"m a PSU alum who started there the year after they joined the B10. Never, and I mean NEVER, has anyone involved with or a fan of regretted joining the B10. PSU's schedule was already excluding many of its traditional rival schools even before they joined the B10. Syracuse, Pitt, and WVU used to be their big rivalry games.
Joe got Pitt of the schedule when Pitt started to win again.
The only negative I've ever heard mention was that there was a large group that wanted PSU to go to the Big East to preserve those games. Nobody except delusional ND fans thinks that PSU would have benefited staying an independent. That leads me to my next point...
Fuck ND! Don't let them in the B10. They don't deserve the recognition that comes with being part of the most storied and top-to-bottom strongest conferences in the USA.
Paterno wanted an eastern football conference... and Pitt voted against PSU joining the Big East... which lost by one vote.
If the Big Ten looks east, I'm sure Penn State hasn't forgotten that.
I didn't know that Pitt was the deciding vote. Maybe that also factors into Pitt not being on the schedule?
I do know that PSU wants to own the state of PA for recruiting and with a resurgent Pitt program many of the western PA kids now have the opportunity to stay home. If Pitt were to become part of the B10 many of the recruiting advantages of PSU with regards to schedule and conference would be lost.
As it is now, PSU still recruits NJ heavily so getting Rutgers into the conference wouldn't necessarily be a good thing for PSU either.
Is there a way to put your words into music? Reading your post made me feel patriotic. Take that ND!
so psu hasn't done anything since 1993. and being independant has worked out so well for nd. how many bowl games has each team won since then? who earns more money? who is in a better academic partnership? who has a bigger stadium? who's had to fire more coaches?
...only they can rationalize their idiocy this way.
Penn State, unlike ND, has been relevant for the last decade and a half. They have been in the title chase several times. Yes, they lost to Michigan 9 times in a row, including Michigan's championship year...ND, instead, lost to Sparty 6 times in a row. Yeah, brilliant. ND has not been relevant since, what, 1993?
The whole thing is a joke. I would much rather be a Nittany Lion than a member of the Irish any day.
RANT: One of the biggest reason Sparty fares so well against the Irish is the fact they play the week after UM, after leaving it all on the field against UM the next week is always a trap game. This is just another reason I hate MSU, they are a freakin parasite for UM. Also as most have stated ND would be middle of the pack if they played a Big Ten schedule since about 1993 (Bob Davie era?).
sorry, I'm just a hatefull bitter person.
Yes, if they'd only remained an independent, they'd have surely remained in national prominence . . . just like all the remaining independent schools did, right?
Army is still kicking themselves for that 7-year stint where they joined Conference USA.
is currently top-tier research team, just as competitive to get into as Notre Dame, and they make double the money ND does in TV revenue. This is all the Big Ten's "fault."
And their football has been just fine and dandy. Had they been independent during their wretched years in the early 2000's, like ND is today, they may not be making any money at all off of TV deals.
But hey, they could have always had their AURA. psh.
O man, they crack me up. If they joined the Big Ten they would do way worse than Penn State. Keep having fun with 6 to 8 win seasons.
Have they even looked at their program for the last 20 years? Should they really be casting stones at ANY other program? No other major power has been so irrelevant for so long in the modern era.