(OT)Things could be worse, we could be Tennessee
What kind of a crap storm is going on in Knoxville? As someone who lives in Tennessee I am calling bull crap on the moral high road being the reason UT fans do not want Schiano. They don't want Schiano because he is not Jon Gruden. UT fans would hire the devil himself if he could beat Bama or Georgia. Now they will owe Butch Jones a buyout and presumably will owe Schiano something because he signed a memo or whatever it was. Not even Dave Brandon could have screwed up worse than UT's AD. I guess my point is things could always be worse.
November 27th, 2017 at 9:20 AM ^
I live in TN as well and my Vols fan friend was using the PSU stuff as his reason for not wanting Schiano. I reminded him pretty quickly that if it was Kelly or Gruden who had the same history, it would be quickly overlooked. I’m all for having morals, but not when it’s selective.
November 27th, 2017 at 9:30 AM ^
Maybe they would have, but I think it's also kinda weird calling people hypocritical for made-up scenarios
November 27th, 2017 at 10:34 AM ^
Imagine the uproar that would happen here. It would come from all quarters.
November 27th, 2017 at 11:21 AM ^
Hypothetical hyporcrisy
November 27th, 2017 at 10:28 AM ^
People are also brushing off the fact that Schiano was a douchebag in the NFL just like Chip Kelly.
Kelly was thought to be a racist, aloof anti-social control freak yet he won in college so nobody cares.
Schiano used to spy on his players, allowed his players to get MRSA, leaked Josh Freeman’s medical information to drown him on the depth chart, and had his players go at Eli Manning’s knees during a kneel. No players liked him regardless of his recommendations from Urban and Belichick.
So, do you really want a .500 coach with that baggage and his PSU associations?
November 27th, 2017 at 10:47 AM ^
you have to admit, objectively speaking, he did a very good job at Rutgers.
November 27th, 2017 at 9:22 AM ^
Personally, I’m pretty annoyed with the bulk of national media that’s writing off the people that truly were turned off by Schiano’s Penn State past. Did some people not like him because he’s Butch Jones/Randy Edsall/Brady Hoke part two? Sure. Were there a lot of people like that? Probably. But there were also a lot that wanted nothing to do with a guy involved with Sandusky, and I just don’t understand the desire to brush those people off and say they are being disingenuous.
I also don’t understand why so many in the national media are talking up Schiano as some sort of great coach. That part is truly the most baffling part of all of this.
November 27th, 2017 at 9:32 AM ^
You are saying people in TN are turned off by Schiano’s links to PSU? But why? Ohio State had no problem with him having those links.
November 27th, 2017 at 9:38 AM ^
In fairness, he was hired at Ohio State before the deposition testimony became public, so it wasn't known what ties he potentially had at the time he was hired other than that he was there at the time it happened (which applies to a lot of people). The issue really (and this will apply for Tom Bradley, too) is that this is the first hiring process he's gone through after that, so the information available is way different.
November 27th, 2017 at 9:47 AM ^
So I can expect OSU to fire him because now they should have the information that Tennessee has correct ?
Moral arguments are garbage and Tenn would overlook it if it's a big name. Simple as that.
November 27th, 2017 at 9:51 AM ^
I wouldn't expect that (and not just because it's Ohio State). The standard is different during the hiring process than it is for retention (typically). It's also different for a coordinator versus a head coach position.
November 27th, 2017 at 12:04 PM ^
It is tough to fire someone for this. OSU can remove all responsibilities and have him show up in a cubicle for the remainder of a contract, but to my knowledge no convictions occurred.
I share the outrage regarding allowing that to occur - tough balance between labor law and morality
November 27th, 2017 at 10:51 AM ^
hypothetical (he is not coaching)....what if Peyton had come up for the head coach position? would they have looked the other way with his history of harrassment allegations? if yes, then they are hippocrities. if no, then they truly are trying to change the culture at UT
November 27th, 2017 at 12:55 PM ^
In that case, bobby petrino's phone should be ringing in 5...4...3...2...1
November 27th, 2017 at 9:42 AM ^
One, Schiano is an assistant at OSU under one of the best coaches of my generation. I don’t like it, but it’s true. When you’re winning, people will turn a blind-eye to many things. Kevin Wilson doesn’t exactly have a clean closet either but Urban didn’t care, and as such the fans don’t either. In Schiano’s defense, he’s never been charged by police, hasn’t been punished by the NCAA and denied the allegations.
Secondly, Tennessee recently had the Title IX rape issue so the fans probably want nothing to with any more potetinal scandals, and a guy associated with the PSU creep show isn’t a good place to start.
November 27th, 2017 at 9:51 AM ^
Whatever happened to the rape scandal at Tennessee? Seemed like it was about to blow up and then I never heard anything about it again.
November 27th, 2017 at 9:56 AM ^
The University settled with the 8 plaintiffs two days before it was set to appear before a US District Court
November 27th, 2017 at 9:34 AM ^
Let's be clear: what Schiano did at Rutgers was unprecedented and incredible. That their period as a winning program did not outlive his tenure there is telling, too.. Northwestern underwent a similar turnaround but it has sustained it under three head coaches. He failed in the NFL, like a lot of all time greats from Holtz to Spurrier, but that shouldn't be held against him.
The only reason that Schiano is not a head coach given that he turned effing Rutgers into a top 25 program is because of the Sandusky stuff. Period, full stop.
November 27th, 2017 at 9:41 AM ^
Lol he had 1 good year at Rutgers, 2006, where he went 11-2 and finished 2nd in the Big East. That's it, that was the only year where Rutgers was ranked, they were never close to being a top-25 program.
He never won a conference title, and only had 3 years where he finished in the top half of the conference.
He's not a good coach
November 27th, 2017 at 10:06 AM ^
You have to call 11-2 at Rugters a great season, not merely good. Plus one of those two losses was in 3OT at #15 WVU.
And in 2007, they weren't bad. 8-5, but at Trugers, again, that's got to be acceptable at least.
November 27th, 2017 at 11:55 AM ^
This is back when they played directional Florida, Cinci, UConn and Pitt every year. They were paper knights, I tell ya!
November 27th, 2017 at 10:27 AM ^
If Belichick, Saban, Meyer and that circle believe he is a great coach then he is probably a great coach.
November 27th, 2017 at 10:42 AM ^
Belichick also thought Charlie Weis was a good coach. And there's a different between being a good position coach or coordinator and a good head coach.
November 27th, 2017 at 11:00 AM ^
I live in NE. Belichick never talked about Weis like he does Schiano. Weis was a good OC. The difference is Schiano has proven he can coach a college team.
November 27th, 2017 at 10:43 AM ^
When Schiano arrived at Rutgers just achieving a winning record (above .500 for the season) seemed like a huge longshot.
Imagine if someone arrived at UTEP or Rice and turned them into a perennial minor bowl team. That would be a head turner.
What he did at Rutgers was impressive.
That said, I do not think he is elite. Glad he did not come to Michigan.
November 27th, 2017 at 11:40 AM ^
Actually, Rutgers had been pretty good in the '80s.
The 1880s---zing!!!!
November 27th, 2017 at 10:59 AM ^
It is Rutgers, dude. You're basically saying "Yeah, he turned a program which hadn't had a winning season in 15 years (and hadn't had back to back winning seasons in 20) into a team which had winning records in 6 of 7 seasons. Yeah, he turned a program that had been to one bowl game ever into a team that went to 6 bowls. Yeah, he took a team that had only won more than 10 games once ever into an 11 win team. And yeah, since he left they have been garbage. But so what, he never won a conference title!"
Rutgers is a program which has literally nothing going for it. They are like Northwestern or Vanderbilt without the excuse of academics. The only reason that they even have a winning record as a program is because they used to play a schedule of Ivies and Northeastern liberal arts colleges every year before the NCAA created divisions. They won fewer than four games in roughly half of the 10 seasons before Schiano went there.
November 27th, 2017 at 10:39 AM ^
Its far from unprecented and even further from incredible.
What he did at Rutgers is no different than what Randy Edsall did at UConn. Both were dogshit Big East programs and both coaches turned them into quality programs. Both programs cratered after those coaches left, both coaches most asshole'ish qualities were put into the spotlight at their next stop, and both coached flamed out in glorious fashion.
So while yes, he did have success at Rutgers, that's really not much different than what other coaches like Edsall, Butch Jones, or Brady Hoke have done at lower levels.
And the reason he's not a head coach is because his flameout in the NFL was so bad, no one wanted to hire him. The only thing at all that he did from 2013 to 2016 was coach high school. High school!! It wasn't until Urban took a flyer on him that he was back in CFB.
And on top of that, the Sandusky stuff wasn't reported until 2016 -- after he was at Ohio State.
November 27th, 2017 at 11:17 AM ^
Respectively, all of the situations you name are different and none are the same as what happened at Rutgers. UConn was an elite FCS team who moved up to FBS in order to keep the basketball team in the Big East, got lucky when half the conference left and eventually became decent (literally, they never got better than 4-5 losses a year). Butch Jones replaced Brian Kelly, who is a really great coach, for the second time in his career and took an immediate step back before becoming kinda good again. Brady Hoke won big at Ball State, a traditional top half of the MAC team, but only after totally cratering them in the first half of his tenure.
Schiano built a program from wishes and sand and New Jersey flop sweat. His flameout in the NFL largely related to his personality, but the number one issue players seemed to have with him was that he had a college mentality and was trying to control them as though they were still teenagers. I don't doubt he doesn't interview well or that he burned a lot of bridges (he left Rutgers after they gave him all the money and, literally, built him a house), I'm just saying that if given a shot at another program he would probably win some games.
November 27th, 2017 at 10:49 AM ^
he was directly tied to the Sandusky scandal. It's the reason he won't get a HC job now. For the last few years it was his disastrous NFL tenure. Not the record, but it was a disaster in many ways that would come in background research. I don't think I'm going too far out on a limb guessing that he doesn't interview well either.
He was out of coaching for three years and would Urban have hired him if we weren't cleaning up recruiting in New Jersey?
November 27th, 2017 at 9:37 AM ^
That's been the biggest surprise for me as well, is seeing a lot of national media members pushing so hard for Schiano.
Yes, he made Rutgers into a somewhat competitive program, and went to 6 bowls, which is better than anything they've done before, or after he left. But he did that in the Old Big East, playing teams like Cincinnati, South Florida, Pitt, Syracuse, and Connecticut on a year to year basis. And even then, his Rutgers career was only 68-67, and his best conference finish was 2nd place.
November 27th, 2017 at 3:31 PM ^
I think at this point, the media pushing Schiano felt more about them trying to tell UT fans to "shut up and take their medicine" than to genuinely advocate for Schiano.
November 27th, 2017 at 9:51 AM ^
Yeah. The cirlcling of the wagons by the college football press was amazing to watch yesterday. Look at the Twitter feeds of Wetzel, Herbstreit, Forde, Dodd, Thamel, etc. And on and on. There were probably 40 to 50 of them railing against Tennessee fans and stereotyping them, calling them Bubba (Dodd this morning). Here's the thing: It wasn't just the fans. It was happening internally, with boosters, with prominent alums, legislators, etc. It was a LOT of people.
So I don't buy into writing these people off either. It's dumb. If they don't want him to be the coach at the university by such wide margins, then it won't work. Without some modicum of support, as a coach you have nothing. It doesn't matter whether they are disingenous or not. Support isn't there so move on and find a candidate who will work.
It seemed to me that Schiano had the support of a few major players in the sports media and when they weren't getting their way they started freaking out.
November 27th, 2017 at 3:34 PM ^
I agree, word from my Vol-fan co-workers was that the athletic department was ready to rise up and revolt over the hire. This was FAR more than the social media meltdown that's getting portrayed.
November 27th, 2017 at 9:22 AM ^
I think this would go better as a "look at that clusterf*k down in Knoxville" thread than a "let's compare our situation to the clusterf*k in Knoxville" thread. Otherwise it's going to descend into an argument between people (like me) saying "things are actually pretty good right now, all things considered" and then other people coming in with "how can you say that we just lost to OSU and I am angry fire somebody I want blood" and then chaos ensues.
Just my $0.02.
November 27th, 2017 at 9:28 AM ^
exchange you just described is going to take place in every thread that is posted today regardless of what the title is. If it involves football, the thread will contain that argument word for word. Then at some point Maizen will drop in discussing the damage that scheduling UC-Riverside did to our RPI and, for once, it will seem like a nice break in the action to argue about something else for a change.
November 27th, 2017 at 9:47 AM ^
I guess you're right. There is no avoiding it.
November 27th, 2017 at 10:11 AM ^
I thought this was a Brady Hoke related OP. My buddy is a UT fan and texted me over the weekend to tell me this was the first time UT lost 8 games in a season. I told him they should hire RR to get the full level of pain and lose 9 games!
November 27th, 2017 at 9:30 AM ^
I find when people are so sure of others' moral intentions, they are usually projecting. It's one thing to wonder if Schiano's coaching quality is a factor, another entirely to be adamant about what other individuals value.
November 27th, 2017 at 9:23 AM ^
“Things could be worse” lead in.
November 27th, 2017 at 9:24 AM ^
Apparently one of the big-time boosters who pushed hard for Shiano was Jimmy Haslam, he of Cleveland Browns ownership and Flying J fraud (allegedly) fame. As many in Tennessee are asking how could things get so completely fucked-up in a coaching search, hire and then subsequent un-hire I would respectfully say just look at my Browns disfunctiona and everything makes sense.
Haslam could fuck-up a one car funeral procession.
November 27th, 2017 at 10:14 AM ^
to be fair, I wouldnt want to lead a funeral procession. I'd be too parnoid to NOT stop at red lights, etc.
much more comfortable in the middle of that convoy. or just, you know, follow the rules of the road.
November 27th, 2017 at 9:26 AM ^
That things are bad here. They are not. This season may have not met our hopes, but it did meet our expectations. I don’t think any expected this to be the year.
November 27th, 2017 at 9:33 AM ^
is revisionist. There is a diary that listed every posters season prediction. There was one or two 8-4 predictions but 10-2 was the pretty dominant choice. I did not expect this to be the year, but I did not expect to lose to State, Penn State, Wisconsin, and OSU. I expected a meh Citrus Bowl year, not an ugh lol Music City Bowl year.
November 27th, 2017 at 9:37 AM ^
If you traded the loss to State (who was better than we all thought pre-season) for a loss to Florida (who was worse), nobody would have been at all surprised by the way things rolled out.
November 27th, 2017 at 9:43 AM ^
the start of the season, I did not expect to lose 4 out of 5 of the "big games" on our schedule. Now I also did not expect 1) JOK to be starting, and 2) JOK v. Indiana 2016 to be a true representation of his ability, so in that way I guess the preseason predictions are kind of not a thing for this year.
November 27th, 2017 at 10:28 AM ^
Maybe you didn't expect it but, unless you are far more confident in a team returning almost no starters on either side of the ball than I was, you probably looked at the schedule and said "oh yeah, we could easily lose 4 games... I hope we can make it to 9 or 10 wins".
November 27th, 2017 at 10:40 AM ^
saw that half of Florida's team was suspended and half of MSU's team had been kicked off. I expected to win both of those games.
November 27th, 2017 at 9:43 AM ^
Exactly. Most people said at least one win against FL / PSU / WISC / OSU, with the hope we could pull out a second.
They also said there is a trap game in there somewhere that we could see a loss in, like Indiana / Minn.
The trap loss just happened to be MSU who was not as much of a train wreck as we expected.