OT: Youth Hockey is the "most expensive" youth sport
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2023/11/06/youth-hockey-costs/71299585007/
The Aspen Institute, in a 2019 report, estimated that parents spend an average of $2,583 annually on hockey for each child. That compares with nearly $1,200 a year for soccer and $1,000 for basketball in a subsequent 2022 report.
My daughter dances competitively for her studio, so when I hear my hockey parents friend complain about the costs I just laugh. Between monthly fees, new shoes ($60 a pair, usually go through 4-5 pairs of each kind through out the season), appear and costumes, we average $10k a year. This doesn't include any travel out out of state competitions (factor in another $2k-$6k)
November 6th, 2023 at 11:43 AM ^
Most important thread today.
November 6th, 2023 at 11:45 AM ^
OT: Water is Wet
November 6th, 2023 at 11:59 AM ^
Actually, the ice is pretty solid
November 6th, 2023 at 1:16 PM ^
At temps above about 18-22 F, the players actually skate on a thin layer of liquid water that forms on the surface of the ice due to the high pressure caused by the players weight being distributed over such a small surface area under the skate blades.
At temps below that, pressure isn't high enough to melt a thin layer of the water to a liquid form; however, players can still skate smoothly. The latest thinking is that a thin, mono-layer of atoms at the surface of the solid water ice exhibits different physics than the bulk of the water ice. This monolayer slips and slides allowing smooth skating.
Below about -50 F, skating is much more difficult I believe
November 6th, 2023 at 2:33 PM ^
I used to say this when I was teaching chemistry and I think I read somewhere that it was not accurate
November 6th, 2023 at 11:45 AM ^
the sad part about the cost of youth hockey is the 'travel teams' that select the players for their roster based on which parents can afford to shell out the most $$
gear, travel and ice time are quite expensive.... but its a great sport. just beware of fanatical hockey parents.
November 6th, 2023 at 11:55 AM ^
When my son was about 7 or 8, he had a few days off school (spring break?) and so I signed him up for an indoor soccer camp at the athletics center down the road. It was run by the resident Eurotrash guy who also helped manage one of the local travel teams.
After a few days, the guy came up to me and said, "Your son is really good! You should sign him up for our team blah blah." I thought, "Wow, he's athletic, but he hasn't played much before -- he *must* be pretty good."
After going home and looking at the materials, it dawned on me the main reason: getting more kids into the program means more $$$; in this case, I think $3000. If he is talented, well then that's good for the program; if he is not, well he can bounce around on the lower-level team for a few years while still paying fees, and that's good the program.
In short: be wary of travel team coaches & their opinions if they are trying to get you to sign up for something.
November 6th, 2023 at 12:06 PM ^
Ha, my daughter went to a summer camp a few years ago. She is very athletic, but has no shits to give about winning/losing. I had heard she was doing pretty well at the camp, which I expected because she is really fast and listens. I showed up at the end and about spit out my drink when she got MVP of the camp. They immediately started calling me telling me she needed to be on one of their teams right after that. I don't know a ton about soccer, but i've seen her play soccer and avoid any contact whatsoever. My wife was almost suckered in to it, but I won the battle. We ended up doing it a couple years later and dad got a few expensive (I told you so's) in. These places are parasites and have ruined kids sports. There are hardly any rec teams/leagues around where kids can just play sports with their friends. These assholes along with idiot parents that think their kid is going pro have every kid in every sport on a "competitive" team. Baseball is the same and it sucks.
November 6th, 2023 at 12:20 PM ^
Having coached both football and basketball for many, many years I can tell you that the parents who "invest" the most money in their kids want to see a return on that investment in form of playing time and stardom. Unfortunately the camps dont give two shits if the kid is actually any good, they just want more money so lots of parents get fooled by these experts into thinking their little angel is a freaking prodigy. And guess who's fault it is when the prodigy fails? Not the parents, they spent good money sending their child to the finest of camps. Cant be the camp, after all they're experts. And it certainly cant be the kid themself, the experts at the camp assured the parents their child was a star in the making.
So the obvious culprit here is the dufus coach whose holding back greatness. Now, multiply that times however many kids you have on the team and you start to understand why there's a severe shortage of decent coaches anymore. It's just not worth the time and trouble to deal with the parents anymore.
November 6th, 2023 at 12:27 PM ^
Don't forget the referees who are obviously blind and biased against their kid and...
November 6th, 2023 at 1:09 PM ^
Well, as a big believer in rec sports (and not travel, for the reasons stated by commenters above), I decided last year to be a referee for the local NFL Flag league. They need people, esp refs who are not teens (to handle the 40-something dad coaches who occasionally channel Brian Kelly). It is recreation -- wins & losses are recorded, and there are playoffs, but everyone is supposed to play etc, fees are reasonable and generally things go well and follow that "it's just a game" ethos.
Until you get to the playoffs...
I won't go into more examples b/c "crazy parents" is not the OP's post, but I had a parent -- none of whom are allowed to be on the field, even to sit in a lawn chair and watch; they need to be in the stands -- come down and show the field administrator a recording on his iPhone on how his son's teammate actually had his feet inbounds. This dad was insistent.
The field admin (who was in his early 20s) was flummoxed on what to do, and so middle-aged me (who didn't make the call; the other ref did) strolled up to the dad and said, "We're not looking at your video. This is the NFL, college, or high school -- it's a rec league for 5th & 6th graders w no instant replay. Everyone is doing their best, and we're moving on."
Grumbling ensured and so forth, but the game went on, and a team won, and no one cared (I'm sure) a couple weeks later.
November 6th, 2023 at 1:45 PM ^
Sounds like you had some shitty parents. My experiences have been luckier i guess.
Soccer, softball, lacross,skating,swimming
I've coached softball & soccer but have volunteered enough to know the basketball/football issues too.
I can tell you that the high-level and low-level tiers have the most realistic parents, they know what kind of kids they have. It's the mid-tier where parents get sold on the "dream" and that's where camps, coaches, training/clubs can take advantage.
My ranking in order of general shittiness/delusion:
softball dads
lacrosse moms
football dads
soccer moms
soccer dads
basketball dads
basketball moms
swim dads
skating moms
football moms
swim moms
skating moms (too busy trying to stay warm?)
hockey and baseball parents can self sort themselves into the list.
November 6th, 2023 at 7:01 PM ^
Lacrosse moms is 100% accurate, My son was a goalie and he came out of the net and hit a kid. The hit wasn't egregious, no penalty called but the kid did get knocked off his feet. He got up quickly and continued to play. His mom was NOT happy. She yelled at my son that she was "going to get him after the game". Her son was mortified and during the next stoppage in play, ran over to her to tell her to stop with the histrionics
November 6th, 2023 at 12:33 PM ^
Don't forget the camps that invite you overseas to train in *insert country here* and impliedly dangle in front of you the, they may be good enough to secure an academy trial.
November 6th, 2023 at 12:38 PM ^
Yup, they will always make up more 'travel' teams to meet the demand of parents willing to spend that $$. Kind of like grade-inflation, "my kid plays on a travel team" has a lot less meaning today than it used to.
November 6th, 2023 at 1:18 PM ^
Having 3 kids play 5 sports I can tell you this is 100% true.
You have to understand that the business will always expand to swallow more available dollars.
I've talked a lot of parents out of "upgrading" their kids to travel teams in quite a few sports and many ages.
Everyone wants the best for their kid, but you need realistic expectations. Parents who think they are grooming a scholarship athlete should just invest that $ in a 529 instead lol.
There are other benefits. Sports helped turn my very introverted(& other issues) kid into a honor society & organizational leader. She is fearless now and can turn any situation into a team sport.
She probably could have learned some similar lessons and skills at a rec level, but getting frustrated with an underperforming team can be an awful experience as well.
November 6th, 2023 at 1:31 PM ^
Slightly differing opinion here. My girls play premier soccer. The main reason they do it is because they were getting a little bored with Rec soccer and the level of disinterest from some of their teammates. In club soccer they are with a group of like-minded kids who love competition and are good to great at soccer. Maybe half those kids will be college level players as they get older, but the other half is still getting to spend time with great friends, push themselves to improve, and learn good life lessons.
from a parents perspective, you just have to remember what the most important goals are, and if you are in it for your kids stardom your setting yourself and your relationship with your child up for failure.
November 6th, 2023 at 3:22 PM ^
Half WILL NOT be playing in college. Of the top 10 teams in the state many will, but there are generally 180+ premier teams per age group in this state and 95%+ won't be playing in college. Unless for fun.
November 6th, 2023 at 7:09 PM ^
You both may be right. 95% won't be getting D1 offers and playing high level college soccer.
But many will be getting hit up by Albion, Alma, Northwoods, etc. to play D3. It's how they fill each year's freshman class.
A friend's kid is going to a school like that where ~50% of entering freshman students play a sport. It's how the college stays in business. They offer financial aid that makes it about the same price as the in-state Michigan publics. The kid gets to say he's playing college hockey, even if it's glorified HS hockey talent level and the academics aren't much better.
November 7th, 2023 at 11:06 PM ^
Our kids' club team puts about 50% of the girls that end up playing at U18-19 ECNL in partial/full scholarship programs in D1 thru NAIA schools. Our girls are younger than that now, but are on track to be on the ECNL team assuming they continue to show interest and develop at the rate they have been. Buts lots of miles between here and there, so I'm just happy they enjoy it and I get along with the other parents.
November 6th, 2023 at 1:51 PM ^
Ski / snowboard racing is the same. 1 in 1000 kids has a chance to go to the Olympics. But you need 1000 racing to pay for the coaching and the facilities for the 1 to get there. For any kid with 1/1000 talent, the clubs find ways to keep them involved regardless of family circumstances.
November 6th, 2023 at 12:12 PM ^
I often wonder what the college and NHL rosters would look like if hockey was an affordable sport like basketball or football. How much money your family has is such a factor in who gets to 'make it' in hockey
November 6th, 2023 at 12:20 PM ^
It's also mainly skills that if you don't learn at a young age, it's real tough. Ojabos that take up the sport in their mid-teens are incredibly rare in hockey
November 6th, 2023 at 11:45 AM ^
OK, I'm doing the math here.
$10K/year --- subtract out $360 for shoes, let's round that down to $9.6K.
It's still $800/month in fees, apparel and costumes??? That sounds nuts.
November 6th, 2023 at 11:51 AM ^
Maybe that's including significant travel costs? Mrs. Hatter was a ballerina and it wasn't nearly that expensive.
November 6th, 2023 at 12:11 PM ^
all the competitions for us this year will be local to Oakland County, minus one that's in Lansing.
Comp (competitive) teams usually have multiple routines they compete.
November 6th, 2023 at 12:01 PM ^
that's basically what we pay a month. and i forgot to mention "conventions". They're basically large group classes put on by the different competition events where kids can learn from "famous" choreographers. Entry to these are around $400 a convention
November 6th, 2023 at 12:48 PM ^
He also said of each kind of shoes, but yeah, the fees seem nuts.
November 6th, 2023 at 11:46 AM ^
Lawrence Stroll enters the chat.
November 6th, 2023 at 12:04 PM ^
Need more F1 on the blog
November 6th, 2023 at 11:49 AM ^
And when your kid happens to be a goalie ...
November 6th, 2023 at 12:30 PM ^
The ROI there though is free ice for life and free beer Sunday mornings.
November 6th, 2023 at 12:43 PM ^
absolute truth.....
November 6th, 2023 at 1:08 PM ^
this … been thinking about getting some pads and getting back into it for free ice time, get to play way more games for numerous teams as there’s always a goalie shortage, etc.
Not sure I want to drop $5k on “lightly used” gear though
November 6th, 2023 at 2:01 PM ^
There is some pretty decent gear on Sideline Swap that is fairly affordable. You can set alerts for specific types of gear (e.g. Brian's 35" pads).
November 6th, 2023 at 11:50 AM ^
Can confirm! I have two boys that both play tier 2 level hockey. That’s travel, but not crazy travel. It is expensive as crap. And time consuming as crap. But they love it, so we do it
November 6th, 2023 at 11:51 AM ^
I had no idea Honey Boo Boo's mom, Mama June, was a member of MGoBlog!!!
November 6th, 2023 at 11:53 AM ^
Funny that an organization called the "Aspen Institute" is complaining about the cost of literally anything. Pretty sure a cup of coffee in that town is $25 now.
November 6th, 2023 at 11:55 AM ^
I skied there a couple times as a kid. It was outrageous in the 80s and 90s, and I can only imagine the cost now.
Also, I had a t-shirt from there that said, "How's your Aspen?" and it was a favorite for many years...
November 6th, 2023 at 2:00 PM ^
They have Mary Samsonite's briefcase full of IOU's and that's as good as money.
November 6th, 2023 at 3:49 PM ^
Aspen: A place where the beer flows like wine
November 6th, 2023 at 11:55 AM ^
Uh, yeah, kids are *expensive*. It was recently published that it cost a bit more than $310K to raise a child from 0 to 17. Note that's just to age 17 (so, excludes college expenses/tuition).
If you are one of "those" parents who supports extracurricular activities and/or a parent who offers incentives in front of them to excel, they get even more expensive.
November 6th, 2023 at 12:10 PM ^
Yeah, so... I don't think so.
Skiing comes close, but of course the actual answers are youth auto racing (yes, that's a thing), youth polo (probably a thing?), and youth stunt flying (OK, not really a thing.. yet :) ).
November 6th, 2023 at 12:34 PM ^
Bingo.
Youth auto racing, and anything involving a horse.
It costs $500-$1,000 per month just to board a horse.
November 6th, 2023 at 12:12 PM ^
Try Ski Racing...
November 6th, 2023 at 12:12 PM ^
Not taking anything away from skill/talent/hard work needed to be a good dancer, but that doesn’t make it a ‘sport’, does it?
November 6th, 2023 at 12:13 PM ^
Looking at the report the number for Softball is way low. It has it at $613. For rec leagues sure - if you get used equipment. For competitive its way more. They have equipment at only $141. A decent fastpitch bat is $250 and the good ones are $500. Comp team fees are $2k or more. Throw in uniforms and one or two overnight trips and you are easily at $3,000.
I don’t really like the trend towards club teams in youth sports. Unfortunately, if your kid likes the sport and wants to get better, its almost required. The cost makes it very difficult for families with less money have their kids participate – which sucks.
I also think club teams hurt high school teams as well. It seems like the high school teams are just not the focus of the best players and coaches. My daughters high school team played the two-time state champs which was ranked top five nationally. They were a decent team, but I am pretty sure her middle of the road 16U comp team could beat them.
November 6th, 2023 at 12:36 PM ^
Yeah I have two girls playing travel softball in NC. Cost for the team fee for one season (Jan-June) is $1,500 each. Same for the fall season (Jul-Nov). Then $500 Bats, $300 fielding gloves, cleats, helmets, masks, bags, uniform costs, gate fees, etc.
Plus, one is a catcher, another $400-500 glove and a thousand for the gear. Then you've got individual coach fees (hitting coach/cages, pitching coach, camps, etc.) Then all the travel costs to get them to the tournaments. It's pretty nuts.
November 6th, 2023 at 12:55 PM ^
My daughter played travel in high school. The particular team she chose (we sat back and let her find the team she wanted to play for and were not "those" kind of parents, never even talked to the coaches beyond the first meeting) pretty much promised access to colleges through all the tournaments they played and the level of players they placed. My daughter was not a D1 level player but definitely could've played D3 -- my son played D3 baseball and she was every bit as good as he was. But I realized it was scammy when, after shelling out $3000 just to play on the team for a season, they told us they had an "east coast contact" that could get us access to those schools for another $3000. Not going to do that. She was looking at schools like Tufts and Columbia, and went to camps on her (our) dime. Hated the whole process, felt betrayed and scammed by this team, and lo and behold, they didn't get any players on any teams better than Elmhurst College in suburban Chicago. Ironically, my son played on a local summer team -- no travel teams -- and played in college, at a great D3 school, through his high school coach, who told him he should go to the college's fall camp, and that's all that was needed. If you're not a superstar, it is an absolute grind to find a landing spot if that's what you want to do. My daughter ended up quitting the team, Covid shut it all down her junior year, and then without the pressure of trying to find a spot in college, had the senior year of a lifetime in high school, breaking the school's home run record and batting .575. As you can probably tell, I'm still mad about it, because she really loved the sport and the whole process sort of broke her spirit.
November 6th, 2023 at 1:26 PM ^
Yeah, HS is NOT the place for best players anymore. If it works out that they can play HS ball too thats great but travel teams are much more important now and HS coaches understand this.
Both my daughters played softball and my oldest quit after playing in the NCs in Myrtle Beach because her coach quit and she hated her HS coach.
I don't consider any of the $ a waste, I'd have evaluated her as a D3 prospect, but she had other interests for college and that's fine.
I invested that money in HER not her sport.