Brennan Boesch has been released. No surprise he won't be with the club. I hated his lazy-seeming ABs and his Cali attitude.
well that's just, like, your opinion, man
I was looking at the roster the other day and was surprised to see him. I had thought they dumped him a while ago.
EDIT Request: "Tigers Release B. Boesch"
Before this turns into a OMG-what-happened-to-Kyle-Bosch-and-why-did-the-OP-spell-his-name-wrong?-thread
Haha my heart honestly dropped reading the title at first...
Ditto. It even took me a second after opening it to get my bearings back.
Count me in there as well... As for the tiger's Boesch, so much promise of a couple years ago.. He will go down in history as Red Pop 2. Just with less pop.
Its a shame because he has power, a beautiful swing and plays solid defense. He was probably the most frustrating player to watch at the plate however; no discipline and always swinging for the fences. Good move by the Tigs
Solid defense? We must be talking about different people.
I should have been more specific... He plays better defense than some of the other options we had out there last year (Young, Raburn). No one is mistaking him for Willie Mays any time soon. Glad we are moving on w/out him
Notice a trend here? Young, Raburn and Boesch are all gone. Now, if we could only trade Jhonny Peralta (and possibly someone else) for better defensive shortstop.
The problem is that it's not that easy to find a better defensive shortstop. Peralta's range is lame but he's awfully damn sure-handed. I think the misconception is that just anyone would be better. Not so, and many of the guys who are, are worse hitters.
I didn't say that it was easy. He is sure-handed...when he gets to the ball. That's the problem with his defense, his range. His 2011 offensive production allows you to look past his defensive insufficiency; his 2012 offensive production does not.
Now, can the Tigers win it all with him at SS? I think they can. I just think they have a much better chance with a SS with better range.
If by "trend" you mean "plays better defense AND makes fewer outs" then I'm right there with you.
That is funny! In that group, as listed, that is a trend. I agree. I didn't care for Young or Raburn. I did like Boesch and wish him well. However, I do understand the Tigers releasing him. He just never got it on track here. He has a ton of potential at the plate. I think he could be really good if he ever puts it all together. Sometimes it takes this type of adversity to do that.
Raburn is a far better defensive OFer than either Young or Boesch.
Comparing someone's defensive abilities to Delmon Young is pointless. So let's take a look at Raburn vs. Boesch.
First of all, my memory of that fly ball hitting Raburn's glove (while he's on the warning track) and bouncing over the fence prevents me from considering Raburn even to be a decent defensive player.
Raburn seems to be slightly less the defensive player that Boesch is. Raburn certainly isn't, as you say, "far better", defensively.
Boesch is gone just like that. Brass is probably still looking to get Rayburn back from Clev. Don't get it.
Except he was.
Raburn converted more balls into outs than Boesch, because he had far more range.
Raburn certainly wasn't pretty in the OF, but covered more ground than most LFers. When he was bad, he was spectacularly bad, whereas somebody like Austin Jackson will simply have the ball bounce of his glove, Raburn would, as you alluded to, knock it over the fence. His defensive mistakes stood out more, but he was by no means a bad defensive player.
Raburn was an average at worst defensive LFer, decent enough to even be plugged in at CF on occassion.
Boesch on the other had had the range of a potted plant, and like Raburn was also bad at simply catching the ball. He was one of the 3 worst defensive RFers in all of baseball, he's downright useless in the OF.
Don't let the facts get in the way of your argument, Maize Nation. According to http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/raburry01.shtml, Raburn has a career Range Factor per 9 innings of 2.04 in RF. Boesch is 2.03.
That does not make Raburn's range significantly better than Boesch's.
Raburn's career LF Range factor per 9 innings is 2.29, while the league average for LF's Range Factor per 9 innings is 2.08. That does not prove to me that he "covered more ground than most LFers.
You may be a Raburn fan, but you need to get a better clue as to what kind of player he is.
I, admittedly, remembered Boesch as being a better outfielder than he actually was.
Range factor doesn't measure range.
Like FP%, RF is a stat you really shouldn't bother to look at.
What defensive stats do you recommend, genius? The next statistic you reference will be the first stat you reference.
Or should we all just evaluate players based upon how you remember them?
You're a moron.
Dude, relax. Rough week for you or something? You're really overreacting and making yourself look bad.
Thanks, Moleskyn. You were right. I had to step away for a bit. I was gripping the club a little hard.
Seeing your avatar picture of Hemingway's and reading your comment actually gave me a pretty good laugh.
Defensive stats are pretty much worthless IMO. You really can't quantify a players defensive range or overall defensive abilities like you can with offense.
However, I do think there is some value to defensive statistics when, over a mutli year period, the metrics agree and all rate a fielder similarly.
Someone will pick him up. When he gets on a roll he can carry a team. The problem is that it has been a couple of years since we have seen that from him. He's also very average in the field.
He's one of the absolute worst defensive OFers in baseball.
Bullshit. His fielding % is .011 behind the league average for his position. He is an average fielder.
FP% is at the bottom of statistics one should look at when measure defensive effeciency.
I haven't seen you reference one defensive statistic yet. You only recount your memory of what a good defensive player he was. Where are your stats to back it up, jackass?
UZR and DRS both rate Raburn has an above average defensive LFer.
EL OH EL.
You don't read very well. According to the chart on this page, http://www.fangraphs.com/library/index.php/defense/uzr/, he's awful.
|Gold Glove Caliber||+15|
You might want to look at his player page.
Raburns career UZR/150 in LF is 6.1
His DRS is +16 in 1,621 innings.
Not sure what you were looking at, but both those stats, in addition to the link you provided, support my point, not yours.
It's for the best. I was just down in Lakeland last week/weekend and saw him in 4 games - he looked completely lost at the plate. At this point, he's got a big enough sample size of at-bats to see that his bad has greatly outweighed his good.
So, this leaves Andy Dirks and...? for the left field battle. I've been under the impression that Dirks will not play every day, so maybe they platoon The Kobernustache with Dirks? Berry maybe? I think Garcia and Castellanos need to start off in Toledo where they can play every day and get more reps.
I don't think Garcia will be around the organization a year from now (ala Maybin with less hype). Castellanos will be a fine player one day, but, as you said, he needs ABs. I'd like to see Berry make the team, but only to provide some danger on the bases a couple times a week; I wish he was a better fielder. That leaves Kobernus in a nice situation. Seems like a twice a week guy to spell Dirks (who will be counted on in a big way).
I think Garcia has a lot more to offer than that. His biggest problem at the plate is he's too aggressive. I think it's easier to scale back aggressiveness than try to ramp it up. Once he learns some patience and starts taking some walks, his offensive performance will be way more sustainable. He's a good defender with an elite arm from the outfield, and he's got a great frame. I think he's our right fielder of the future. Torri Hunter has a 2 year contract, and I'll bet he'll retire after that.
Castellanos is legit, too. He hit the ball hard in every at-bat I saw him in. Give him more reps against better pitchers (he struggled against AA pitching last year, but he's hitting .400 off AAA-ML level pitching in ST), and more time in game situations in the outfield, and I think he's ready to be our every day left fielder next year.
Tyler Collins is also an intriguing outfield prospect - he seems like Andy Dirks 2.0 at the plate: short, stocky, lefty. He hit the ball really well in the games I saw him in over the weekend. He absolutely crushed a homer in the 8th to win Friday's game against the Mets. I didn't see him get much action in the field, so I can't say anything about his defensive ability, but he seems to have a promising future.
I also think Garcia's aggressiveness has hurt his power. Once he becomes more selective, his power numbers will probably go up. And I agree. Seems he has a bright future, and possibly a long one here in Detroit.
If in three years our outfield is made up of Jackson and Castellanos at an All-Star level, and Garcia can carry a decent OBP and provide 75 RBI along with a decent glove and (agreed) a great arm, we'll be in great shape. Unfortunately, I think he has all the tools, but none of the feel. He seems like a kid who might develop into a great player for us not named Garcia. We shall see.
Likely platoons with dirks unless they have a last minute acquisition.
Will you elaborate on your comment that its easier to scale back an overly aggressive hitter than ramp up a hitter who isn't aggressive enough? My intent is not to troll you or anything. I'm just curious to know what there is to share about developing hitters and their batting discipline.
Kobernaus has taken some good at bats and looks like he could hold a platoon job, I guess we'll see if that position is filled via a Porcello trade, but at this point I'd rather have the pitching depth.
I've been trying to temper my excitement over what Kobernaus has been able to do this spring. It's very encouraging. I believe he's a Rule 5 pick, which could be playing into their decision with Boesch. I hope Don Kelly "heating up" (HR yesterday) didn't factor into this decision. He's another one that needs to go.
I know that every team needs good role players at the end of their bench. Every story or report that I've ever read about Kelly is that he's a good guy. I'd rather just have a little better production and/or potential from someone there, rather than a 33 year old with a career .232 average.
Kobernaus isn't gonna be any better than Kelly at the plate.
He hasn't one good offensive season his entire professional career, even in the minor leagues.
Unlike Kelly he should at least provide a base stealing threat, but I wouldn't expect anything more out of him than speed.
Kobernus had a fine year in Harrisburg last year for the Nats, he's also right-handed which means he'll most likely have a leg up on Kelly/Berry when it comes to a platoon position. He provides a better overall game than Kelly and might prove to be just as competant of an OF as Berry (who was a vastly overrated outfielder, taking bad routes, and consistently throwing to the wrong base). I'm actually pretty excited about what I've read and heard about Kobernus this spring.
Yeah, I'm not sure about Kobernus. I saw a fair amount of him over the weekend, and there was nothing real exciting about his game. From what I've heard, his biggest strength is his speed, but I didn't see that on display at all. Not saying it isn't there, I'm sure it is, I just didn't see any of it (I don't think he's stolen any bases this Spring). Offensively, all I remember is him drawing a couple walks against the Braves last Thursday, which is certainly a good thing. Nothing else really stands out. He played second against the Braves and looked really shaky there - he bobbled the ball a couple times: once on a DP (the ump ruled that he dropped the ball while trying to make the throw, but it didn't really look like that), and then again fielding a ground ball (he did recover and threw the guy out). He also played LF, but wasn't really tested at all.
The guy had a .301 wOBA in AA at 25 years old.
That's not a fine year, that's a bad year.
Yes you're right .301 isn't the greatest wOBA around but Don Kelly hasn't touched that number since 2009.
P.S. He's only 24 so there's still room for growth.
Kelly did have a .297 wOBA in 2011, and his wRC+ was actually 1 higher that year.
This was against ML pitching.
I just don't expect him to even match his minor league numbers from last year, he'll probably suffer some considerable regression going against much better competition.
Alright guys, I hate to be that guy, but 3 of you have made the same mistake: it's Kobernus. And he has an amazing mustache, so I'm going to be calling him The Kobernustache.
Kelly batted .186 last year. There are plenty of guys that would do better than that. You have a terrible memory, Maize Nation. WTH???
My point wasn't that Kelly was any good, he wasn't, and I'm well aware. I've been a proponent of getting rid of Don Kelly since the minute he donned a Tigers uniform, because he sucks. I know he doesn't provide any value, my point was that Kobernus likely won't either. Even if he matches the line he had in AA last year he'll still be bad, and that's unlikely to happen. Kobernus will probably hit .220 with little walks and no power, and be off the team by the trade deadline.
You no do English good.
You said - "If he carries the same line from AA, that would be bad." Kobernus hit .282 in AA last year. That's bad? What fucking planet do you come from?
1. How did you manage to misquote me when my post was right above you as you typed yours out?
2. I'm from the planet that realizes BA does not correlate with run production as well as other readily available statistics.
It's too bad he didn't carry through the success of the first half of his rookie season. I had visions of him and Jackson being the basis of a strong outfield for years to come. And then reality set in......... Best of luck to him wherever he ends up, glad it won't be with the Tigers.
Here is the link to the USA Today story about this, as it has some interesting tidbits - (LINK)
They speculate that Boesch could get a look from a couple organizations that are in sudden need of outfield help, such as both New York clubs. By releasing Boesch now, they actually save $1.9 million and only owe him 1/6th of his salary.
Dave Dombrowski did talk about it: "If I'm somewhere else, in the sense that you were looking for a guy to play some outfield and hit DH, and you knew you could give him some at-bats, he's still got a lot of upside. But you just run out of the time to give him here. We're at a different point. We're not in a development stage, in that regard. We're in a point of trying to win right now."
I guess there wasn't much of a market for trading him, even for low minor league scraps? The cost benefit of releasing him now apparently outweighed any perceived trade value further down the line.
He had some great moments in a Tigers uniform -moments that usually lasted a few weeks at a time. The weeks of absolute non-production that preceded or followed his manic mashing phases were so frustrating, though. I thought this guy was destined to be a .270-.280 hitter with 25 HR 80 RBI potential.
I am glad he is gone, but you would think he could have fetched an ok prospect or two or at least be part of a larger package with Porcello. For whatever reason they thought it was better to save the money than be stuck with him.
I haven't been this happy since the Tigers decided not to bring back Delmon.
Should've laid off the high, inside fastball, Brennan.
I thought Boesch was turning into a solid player in 2011. He was having a good year but got injured and then 2012 was a complete washout. I hope that he catches on somewhere else.
Always felt like he was a week away from a breakout, but this team should be okay. His defense was atrocious at times.
Where are you getting that? this is a guy that when injured in '11 stayed with the team in the dugout all the way throught the season and playoffs instead of doing what a lot of guys do, go home. Pretty much the opposute of a Cali attitude
I dont know, i always liked the guy. Maybe the image of him jumping over the fence down the foul in seattle stuck with me a little too long, but i never saw a lack of hustle, or "cali attitude" with him
He had a lot of disappointing trips to the plate. He looked promising, but it never panned out. According to Leyland, he was susceptible to folding under pressure (my terminology) and they unsuccessfully tried a lot of different things to make him relax.
I hope he finds a spot on another club.