OT: Talking Cars Tuesday - Death(?) of the Convertible
Mini has announced that their Cooper 'Vert is being discontinued after this model year. With the death of the Buick Cascadia, GM offers two convertibles - Camaro and Corvette. Ford has only the Mustang, but that's been true for a while. Chrysler offers zero convertible cars*, except the Fiat 124 Spider (which is a Miata under there). Kia and Hyundai don't bother, neither does Toyota, or Honda. Nissan offers only the Z, which is now a 10+ year old platform. BMW, Audi and Mercedes have some options, but they don't come cheap and all are rumored to cull their offerings soon to trim costs.
I haven't owned a convertible since 2012, but when there's a perfect weather day I miss nothing more... So do you have a drop-top? Why? Why not? What would you look for in one?
For what it's worth, I think I know why car convertible options are disappearing... it's that to get 4 comfortable seats in a convertible the best option for folks has become... an SUV. Wrangler, (soon to be) Bronco, Evoque Convertible... the market's just moved vertically. Can you prove me wrong?
August 25th, 2020 at 10:53 AM ^
My daily driver is a Jaguar XK convertible. I will never sell this car and plan to drive it as much as I can until it completely falls apart. Nothing beats it on sunny days.
August 25th, 2020 at 10:54 AM ^
FWIW I've owned two in my life and loved both of them. When I was younger I had a palidium silver 1970 GTO with a 455, AC, PS, PB & 4 speed and cruised Woodward most Friday and Saturday nights from 76-81. I sold it for $1,800 in 1982 because I was mad I couldnt get the water pump to stop leaking. Last time I looked that particular car with the options my car had sold in the 70K-ish range. So yes, quite stupid of me to get rid of it.
My second was a powder blue 1984 Mustang with a white top, 301, crushed velvet powder blue interior, air & 5 speed. That car was FUN and I owned it out in San Francisco during most of the 80's. I drove it back to Michigan in 1989, alone, and that trip was amazing in itself. Top down, alone, cruising across the country was something I'll never forget.
Ragtops are the most social car there is to be honest. Pull up to any light with the top down and people in cars next to you will start talking to you about your car. Happened all the time and was pretty cool. If they're gone, I'll miss them.
August 25th, 2020 at 11:39 AM ^
Never owned a convertible. My thing is the dearth of manual transmissions. The car of my youth was a 1971 Ford Torino deep red with a 429 four barrel with four on the floor. I'm betting we saw each other cruising Woodward. Remember the Lum's at Woodward and Lincoln? VERY friendly waitresses.
August 25th, 2020 at 12:01 PM ^
Damn I DO remember Lums (if not the waitresses unfortunately). I grew up on Pontiac so we always started at Ted's Drive In (far north end of Woodward) and made the turn home at a giant parking lot in front of strip mall i think around 12 mile road or so.
A Ford 429 has always been my dream engine. Gobs of potential that took a ton of work to unlock but damn that mill was special. Pontiac had the Ram Air IV (and the mythical Ram Air V) that could run with just about anything but my car was heavy due to the reinforced convertible frame and the 455 so not a world-beater on the strip. My guess is if we ever did lock horns out there my view of your Torino would've looked something like this after about 12 seconds......
August 25th, 2020 at 12:26 PM ^
Speaking of Ford, I saw a 2020 GT on Woodward last month. It must have been a company test car since I don't think they're selling them yet.
It was stunning.
August 25th, 2020 at 12:17 PM ^
manual transmissions are dying because automatics have become so efficient that manuals are the slow gas hog black sheep of their car families. breaks my gear head heart.
August 25th, 2020 at 12:28 PM ^
I think it's because people are lazy. Can't drink coffee, txt, shave, and watch a movie on your phone when you actually have to drive the car.
Little Hatter is getting a manual transmission car when he's 16 if he likes it or not.
August 25th, 2020 at 12:45 PM ^
....also hard to eat ass with a manual! Amirite???
August 25th, 2020 at 1:33 PM ^
There are a few things in that regard that require superior gymnastic skills when navigating around a stick shift. Iffin' you catch my drift...
August 25th, 2020 at 3:06 PM ^
They don't make em like they used to....
August 25th, 2020 at 3:43 PM ^
The cars or the sex partners?
August 25th, 2020 at 4:02 PM ^
Best reason to have a 16 year old drive a manual is that they need both hands to execute a left hand turn, which means they don't have a phone in their hand. I have tried, and it is damn hard to down shift to second and turn with one hand occupied. Also reduces how many people can borrow the car. Plus they are fun to drive.
August 25th, 2020 at 12:31 PM ^
I owned one - a beautiful 1969 Mustang convertible, medium blue with a white top. I spent a summer in Tucson AZ and rather than buy a plane ticket home to MI, I bought that Stang, drove it all the way back to MI in one sitting (top was up only 30 minutes the entire trip), kept it about 6 months until I came to the realization that I could not afford to keep it at that point in my life (end of college years). Boy, I miss that car and wish I had it today. I would never want it as a daily driver though.
August 25th, 2020 at 1:02 PM ^
I imagine your GTO looked similar to this:
For a brief few summer and early fall months in 1976 I owned a white '66 Catalina convertible that looked pretty much like this (although not nearly as cleaned up):
It was glorious to drive around A2 with the top down in the sunshine, and it was what I was driving when I started dating my soon-to-be wife. Since it was 10 years old it needed periodic work and I sold it so I could drive the piece of crap '70 Duster my mom gave me. Dumbest automotive decision I've ever made that I regret to this day.
August 25th, 2020 at 1:12 PM ^
Almost Don, almost. Mine had raised white letter tires instead of the redlines and a 455 HO sticker on the fender sidewall. But 99% accurate.
Here's a small world coincidence. The Catalina 2+2 you have pictured I almost bought last year before I bought my 68 GTO. That car, and I mean that exact car, was for sale in Plymouth at Vanguard Motor Sales and I drove up and looked at it before deciding they wanted too much for the car. They also had a black 65 2+2 I coveted by ultimately passed on as well.
August 25th, 2020 at 1:37 PM ^
Pretty close approximation. Boy that was a sweet ride...
Now I can't spend every discretionary dollar on a car so I'm reduced to buying a Focus ST so I can have a manual transmission. Responsibility sucks.
August 25th, 2020 at 10:57 AM ^
Just traded in my Mustang convertible last year. I loved it all winter here in Florida. But I'm 6'2" and getting older and a Mustang is just too uncomfortable for me now. I need a full size car if the top has to be up.
August 25th, 2020 at 10:59 AM ^
I think its less to do with 'death of convertibles' and more to do with 'death of cars'
SUV's and Trucks have completely taken over. I believe Chrysler only offers 1 car now?
RIP cars.
August 25th, 2020 at 11:04 AM ^
The whole back half of a truck is a convertible. At least that's the way it was when I was growing up and it wasn't frowned upon to ride around in the back of one.
August 25th, 2020 at 11:15 AM ^
Same here. I probably rode hundreds of miles in the box of an F150/F250.
August 25th, 2020 at 11:31 AM ^
with a beer in both hands
August 25th, 2020 at 11:45 AM ^
There's just something women like about a Pickup Man...
August 25th, 2020 at 11:00 AM ^
"The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated."
Convertibles everywhere
August 25th, 2020 at 11:02 AM ^
I have a 2011 Mustang GT Convertible. I will never sell that car....there are few things better than a spring or fall day driving with the top down.
August 25th, 2020 at 11:04 AM ^
I worked at a Chrysler dealership straight out of college from 2010-2013 before I got into insurance. Every year we were teased that a Challenger convertible was forthcoming. I’m still waiting. Now that I no longer have a demo car and have to purchase my own cars it’s the one thing I’ve really wanted.
One of the larger Chrysler meetings I attended Sergio and another guy said the biggest problem with convertibles is the shrinking niche market for them doesn’t justify the all of the production costs. I’m 32 and it’s sad to think I may never own one.
August 25th, 2020 at 11:14 AM ^
" I’m 32 and it’s sad to think I may never own one"
You mean I’m 32 and it’s sad to think I may never own a NEW one. Plenty of used ones available out there my man. 7,178 are currently for sale within a 500 mile radius of my office in Beachwood, Ohio to be exact according to AutoTrader.com
EDIT: I originally had a link here but it destroyed the formatting of this thread so I deleted it.
August 25th, 2020 at 12:06 PM ^
Hello Beachwood. Im in Lyndhurst and I work in Science Park. Well, I did...until April. Hoping I'll be going back soon
And come to think of it, you probably drove past my cousin 1000 times on Woodward in the early 80s. He graduated from Sterling Heights in '82 and had a candy apple red 69 Cutlass (though I doubt it was the only Cutlass on Woodward at the time). He used to tell me stories of crusing on Woodward back then and I wanted to buy that car off of him for years, but he left it in a garage while he was at Lake State and those years of sitting were unkind to it to the point that he didnt want to risk handing it down to me.
August 26th, 2020 at 1:49 AM ^
The Challenger can be done after-market with a fair nominal up charge at the dealership, or so they tell me in Auburn Indiana.
August 25th, 2020 at 11:07 AM ^
I never had one, but I used to love motorcycles... maybe you should try getting a bike
When I was at Michigan used to buy a cheap bike each summer. They are cheap on gas and insurance and also cheap to buy. Perfect option for a poor college kid from a rural area that needs wheels for summer jobs..... oh yea, and they are fun as hell
but then I became a dad of 3 kids and realized it was too risky in terms of what would their life look like without me. Thinking that someday when I am not as important I am going get another bike.
I suspect the convertible will make a comeback... probably triggered by a movie with a good scene and the right background music
edit: If it's not obvious, I think the wind in your face is a key attraction of each
August 25th, 2020 at 11:47 AM ^
My 2 convertibles were Jeep Wranglers. Doorless they felt like what I imagine a motorcycle felt like, but if some idiot hit me they'd still hit the vehicle rather than my legs...
August 25th, 2020 at 1:09 PM ^
My favorite setup in my jeep is the top on but back and side windows out of it with the doors off. The top provides protection from the sun but you still get the awesome breeze and can stick your foot out the door.
August 25th, 2020 at 11:11 AM ^
Everyone should own a convertible at least once in their life. I've had two Miatas, a 97 and a 99, and I'm still kicking myself for getting rid of the 99, 15 years later.
I've owned a bunch of great cars over the years, but to this day that 99 Miata is my favorite. It was a nearly perfect car. I bought it just before winter when the dealer needed to move it and got a great deal.
Fully loaded. Black with tan leather and a tan top. Bose stereo with speakers in the headrest. Upgraded suspension and a limited slip differential. The shortest throw transmission I've ever used. Perfectly balanced with about 140 hp. Driving it was almost a religious experience. The only thing that would have made it better would have been a turbo and about 40 more hp.
Eventually I'm going to buy another one exactly like it.
August 25th, 2020 at 11:17 AM ^
You know the Miata joke right? I'm pretty sure I've busted your balls with this before but I like it too much to not share it again.
"No, I'm not gay buy my car clearly is"
NTTAWWT
August 25th, 2020 at 11:34 AM ^
Girls who play softball, and guys who drive Miata's
August 25th, 2020 at 11:45 AM ^
Anyone who rags on a Miata as a feminine or gay car (I know you're repeating a standard joke, and not saying you believe the joke) has clearly never driven one.
Time in a 2400lb car changes ones opinions and helps one understand "simplify and add lightness".
August 25th, 2020 at 11:48 AM ^
A Miata is still a chick car.
August 25th, 2020 at 12:51 PM ^
Agreed! I bought a '17 Mini Convertible and just love it. While it weighs a few hundred pounds more than the Miata, with the turbo engine and with it further chipped out, it is a fun ride!
August 25th, 2020 at 2:02 PM ^
I’m a motorcyclist, so that’s where I get my performance kicks, but I will defend Miata owners.
I’m fortunate to live close to world class sporting backroads & on those roads I’ve seen more Miatas being driven in anger than all other sports cars combined.
Yes, some Miata owners get them because they’re “cute” or other silly reasons, but I think a higher percentage of Miatas are owned by actual enthusiast drivers who get out and really drive than most if not all other brand sports cars.
August 26th, 2020 at 11:44 AM ^
Miatas are great for the topic of "Slow Car Fast".
Basically, the theory is that it's most fun to flog a slower car - really floor it, work it near redline, push, push push - than it is to drive a really fast car, which you can't floor without getting dangerous/illegal quickly.
Miatas are NOT that fast in a straight line, they don't have tons of power, which means it takes some skill to keep up speed through corners and you can't just use the gas pedal to get quick.
Miatas being driven in anger will still respect speed limits. I hustled home once from grad school in my GTI and realized that I was doing 45 in a 30 too easily. The car was too fast for me to push it on the road I was on.
August 25th, 2020 at 11:51 AM ^
That car was affectionately known as the "fagmobile".
Every guy (and more than one girl) I knew at the time talked shit about it, until I gave them the keys. Best friend kept it for half the damn day.
Not a great car for having sex, gay or otherwise, in or on though.
Dented the hell out of the 97's hood one night. Just had to pull over into a pumpkin patch and eat some ass at 1am.
August 25th, 2020 at 3:15 PM ^
Straight laughed out loud at your post... well done.
Fun story. My dad was a member of a NW Ohio Miata club... they had organized a track day at MIS for all members to drive if they wanted. He had an 02' I believe.. fun car, if not a little lacking in the power arena. I drove the first few laps, I think we hit about 110-115 on the straights, when a black Miata absolutely roared past us, the unmistakable sound of a V-8 going with it.
A guy, former engineer I believe, had transplanted the LS2 (?) out of a wrecked Pontiac GTO, and the installation was flawless... absolutely looked like a factory installation. I think he told me the swap was only about 50lbs heavier than the stock I-4 the Miata had because the LS was all aluminum.
THAT'S a car I'd like to drive.
August 25th, 2020 at 11:14 AM ^
Early in my career I worked at a conv supplier. Almost every OEM had a conv model in the 80’s. You really need a two door coupe body style to begin with in order to design a convertible, and these cars are a dying breed. This is the main reason. Also, niche vehicles are tricky. A folding top alone can run $25M tooling investment plus mfg plant costs. Not to mention unique sheet metal structure, plant complexity. You need to sell a lot of them to make a good business case these days.
August 25th, 2020 at 11:18 AM ^
I had a Mustang convertible from 23-28. Loved it. Was not fun to drive in Michigan winters. With 3 kids under 5, I need the space (both for them and in my garage) and I can't really justify the cost of a third, "fun" car that I can effectively drive 4 months out of the year when we need at least one SUV and a full-sized sedan, if not a second SUV.
Maybe when they're older and out of college.
August 25th, 2020 at 11:31 AM ^
23 to 28?
Did you attend the Sermon on the Mount a couple of years later?
August 25th, 2020 at 11:27 AM ^
I think the new Land Rover Defender 90 has a retractable fabric top coming next year.
Also, I agree with you Ben regarding the market. It seems the convertible is just moving the same way as most vehicles, and that’s everyone wants an SUV, or something that looks like an SUV now.
August 25th, 2020 at 11:54 AM ^
My son told me we're poor because we don't have an SUV and our house is smaller than his cousins.
He doesn't understand that a car can cost more than an SUV and a gigantic house is like $10 in rural Ohio.
August 25th, 2020 at 11:28 AM ^
As long as there are divorced, middle-aged men with shriveled penises, there will always be a market for convertible sports cars.
August 25th, 2020 at 11:34 AM ^
Well, most everybody posted here about having a rag top when they were younger. Seems to be attractive to most age groups.
August 25th, 2020 at 11:35 AM ^
Or were all Asian
August 25th, 2020 at 11:34 AM ^
I have a Wrangler and I personally just don't feel safe without a roll bar above me. My wife and I rented a convertible Camaro a few years ago and it was fun, but I kept thinking how exposed we were if we happened to be in a roll-over accident.
Now--if you were to try and sell me a Wrangler with an auto-soft-top-retract function, I would certainly be interested.