OT: The Sunday Doldrums, An Opinion Request.
(Dr. Nick Rivera Voice) Hi, Everybody!
Another weekend has passed by, and like usual around this time, I have the Sunday blues. For the past decade or more I have been a union carpenter and worked on some really awesome projects around the Ann Arbor campus, and the campuses of the Big 3 as well. I have posted before about the CIT addition of the hospital, and that project is still going strong, but I am currently on the Leinweber Computer Science building and cannot talk about it because the General says we cannot talk about it to the public or something bad will happen but here is a 24-hr. live stream of the project from multiple cameras, FFS. https://leinweber.wpengine.com/about-the-project/construction-live-feed/
Anywho, I have had enough of my career. I have a third kiddo on the way, and I have spent enough time away from my family working overtime. The money is wonderful, but relying on my body to bring in income has limited some of my passions like mountain biking, and backyard wrestling .My four-year apprenticeship cert. does not give me the blanketed requirement for many jobs, like my buddy's Poli-sci degree does. (Absolute bullshit)
In January, I started taking classes online at Jackson College, with no real direction of a major. Being an avid bird hunter, trout angler outdoorsperson, I thought wildlife biology or conservation? Maybe forestry?
My questions to the MGOBLOG family are:
Has anybody else gone back to school full time in their 30's and what was it like?
- If you aren't dreading work tomorrow, what do you do for a living? Was it a passion beforehand, or did you fall into it?
I went back to college in my mid-30s. It was kind of like Back to School with Rodney Dangerfield only...poor. Seriously though, going back then was the best thing that's ever happened to me. The B.A. and M.A. led me to Michigan for the M.F.A., and what I learned along the way opened my life to knowledge, experiences, and possibilities I would in no way have enjoyed otherwise. The key for me was majoring the second time around in subjects I was passionate about--history and English and opposed to business. School became something I was happy to devote my life to. I've been a college prof for 8 years and truly love what I do for a living. The only issue was the financial sacrifice of it all. It's only in the last year that I've been able to achieve the financial stability I had in my previous career, which makes retirement planning all the more challenging.
I had a very traditional four-year college experience starting at 18 (17 when I arrived on campus, I guess). So I can't speak to that aspect of things.
However, I wouldn't say I'm dreading work tomorrow. That's because I'm paid well to do work in marketing that relates to my deeper interests (writing, telling stories, etc.) and my working conditions are more than fine. I'm not overworked or forced to do a lot of things I profoundly hate, and so on. I like the boss I directly report to and many of my coworkers. I don't necessarily find the substance of what I do that compelling on a daily basis, but it's enough that I don't hate it and that it doesn't ask too much of me. So if I had any perspective to offer, it'd be that I, at least--and I suspect most people--could do all kinds of things for work if it was close enough to my true interests that I was good at it and found some meaning in it, and if the tangible conditions of the job (pay, people, hours, etc.) were tolerable.
I'm looking to make a career change into Copywriting, Blake. I have my B.A. in Communications (Print Media) and 30+ years of personally (as opposed to professionally) working on my craft.
Do you have any insight as to how best to break in to the industry? I'm putting together a portfolio, of course, but none of it is ad work.
I'm a former copywriter, big agencies in Chicago. I've been out of the business for a while, but I think some things still hold true. First, figure out what kind of advertising you want to do. If you want to work in a creative department at an agency, make sure your portfolio reflects that. Do ads and campaigns. Target them to the kind of agencies you're looking at. Package goods? Medical? Business-to-business? Try to get some interviews with the people who hire in creative departments or creative headhunters to get some feedback on your work. If you know any creative directors, try like hell to get in with them. Listen to what they have to say, Make changes to your portfolio as you go (if you agree with the critiques). See if there are any classes around you that are geared towards putting your book together -- they're usually taught by writers and CD's, and you can make connections that way. They can really help you build a book that will get people's attention. I didn't start putting my book together until after I graduated, so I did it all myself, but there are now schools, like Portfolio Center and Miami Ad School, that are geared towards putting your book together. Then it's really just getting your work in front of anyone who will look at it.
That's wonderful advice, Wendy. Thank you!
Wendy's advice is much better than mine would be since I took a very unusual path and sort of fell backwards into what I do. My main piece of advice would be to learn to think deeply about what stories organizations want to tell about themselves. That story won't always be the coolest or most interesting thing--it'll be a reflection of what they aspire to be
Heptarch, Wendy, BF - thanks for this side discussion. Seems pretty interesting. I've had a somewhat odd career path but as of right now it's going nowhere. I've been underemployed for 4 years now and that time has been spotted with periods of unemployment (incl. now). I've had a hell of a time getting back into my chosen field and I actually have something brewing with two organizations right now. But, I don't have high hopes because I don't particularly trust either one and I've had incredibly hard luck landing decent full-time work that fits by background and experience.
So, I've had my eye on copywriting and even technical writing jobs (a different animal of course) because I think my skills can translate to that type of work. I was an English major at U of M and before my career fell off a cliff I had a great job as a writer/researcher for a non-profit in DC.
Wendy - that's incredibly detailed advice. And BF - I like what you said about "telling stories" and I'm wondering how you "fell in" to your career in that field. And my question to you guys is: did either of you transition into that from another field? If so, any advice?
I went back to school in my early 30's(w/wife and 2 kids) with the goal of having a job/career that was more family oriented, because I had previously been working 12hr swing shifts for several years.
I first chose X-Ray because it "could" be a day job. Then a couple weeks into a prerequisite class, I learned about Radiation Therapy. The rest is history. However, I don't think I would even have thought about this career had my dad not passed from Colon Cancer when I was 24.
I have only been in this field for 3 years, and man, wouldn't change it!!!
You only live once, so chase what you want, but I have a couple of degrees and I think college and beyond is vastly overrated in many respects. I wish I had your skills.
42 year retired union carpenter. Truth be told I wish I had gone back to school at some point.
But.... I'm leaving next week for a bluegrass festival and horseshoe tournament. Life could be lots worse.
Good luck in your challenges.
I love teaching chemistry. So much fun almost every single day and the people I work with are amazing. But I have a very fortunate set of logistics for my job and I have a lot of really unique opportunities. Teaching in Michigan is on the upswing after some bad years when I started too. The population decline is worrying, but pay is great relative to COL.
I'm not dreading work. I actually like my job. But it isn't a passion. My degree is in music composition, but very few people can make a living at that. I spent most of my adult life homeschooling four children, and when they were successfully launched into the world, I just looked for a place where I could be productive and make a contribution to society. There was some trial and error, but I ended up in a state office job. It would be intolerable except that I'm a member of a very small team (ten individuals) who are all great people. No office gossip, no politics, no religion. It makes the work environment really pleasant.
Music composition? Awesome! I don't want to threadjack, but maybe you could help me out with a question?!?
I just finished reading Doctor Faustus: The Life of the German Composer Adrian Leverkuhn by Mann. I know a bit about classical music/opera/etc., but nothing about composition, so I wasn't able to imagine from the descriptions of his (fictional) compositions what his style would have been. It seems that the more musically inclined would be able to imagine it from the description. Have you read it? Do you have any thoughts? I didn't really detract from my enjoyment of the novel (loved it), but this is just something that's been bothering me.
Alas, I have not read it. But I'm between books right now and was pondering what to begin (Last of The Mohicans was making a case for itself). Now I'm thinking I'll tackle Doctor Faustus first. And if I have any insights, I'll tack them back on to this thread, which will by then be buried fifty deep on the mgoboard...but maybe you'll find them. Thanks for mentioning it!
That would be awesome! I'll definitely check back. I hope you'll enjoy it. (Just a heads up: I found the old translation by Lowe-Porter to be, well, not to my taste. I may have quit reading if I hadn't picked up the new translation by Woods.)
Last of the Mohicans has been on my "to read" list for too long now. I need to get to it.
Started to read Last of the Mohicans,but gave it up.I thought it was tough and boring.Just the opposite of Huck Finn.
August 10th, 2023 at 12:40 PM ^
Just checking in to let you know I'm working my way through Doctor Faustus. Couldn't find it on my e-reader, so had to wait for the local library to send me a hard copy. I haven't forgotten!
September 23rd, 2023 at 5:58 PM ^
FINALLY! I'm sorry it took so long for me to get back to this. What an interesting read, though! Of course, it's impossible to be certain about these (fictional) works by the (fictional) composer Adrian Leverkuhn, but there were some indications. He really evolved over the span of his life. His early (youth) efforts were either counterpoint (think Bach) or 12-tone (Schoenberg). Both of those wildly different styles were referenced throughout the book, as he apparently continued to toy with them. But evidence leads, I think, to his greater works landing in a neoclassical style (Aaron Copland or Bela Bartok, perhaps). It would be fun, perhaps for a comp student, to try to write the works as they're described and see what comes of it.
Im a union factory guy who works in the food manufacturing industry. I hate my job but it pays super well and it's basically a sit down and look at a computer screen job so to make 80 to 90k a year is nice.
I lucked into this job a few years ago. Im in my early (mid) 40s and I've had approximately 739 different careers since I was old enough to work. I think I finally settled on something I can do and not hate every second of it.
I'm one of those folks that just wasn't built to work. I'm not lazy, I just want to do what I want to do. There's enough "everything" in this world that the majority of us should not spend our time making products that will fill landfills within a few years.
Just one mgoidiots opinion. Feel free to discuss.
I'm not a good one to ask for career advice, as I never did decide what I wanted to be if I grew up, so I eventually retired. I bounced back and forth between education and horticulture, and never found an ideal situation that combined the two. I quit teaching five times, for five different reasons, the final one being to retire early to take care of my wife. Best career decision ever. (Not the best financial decision, though, but I'm making do!) All that said, I was always willing to look for new opportunities to learn new things, and willing to take new risks (as long as those risks weren't too great). For example, at 42 with two preteen/teen kids, we moved 500 miles away from home to a new city where we knew no one, and without solid job prospects, just the potential for employment opportunities, plus even better opportunities for two smart children who were educationally and socially stifled in a small Michigan town. It worked out very well in the long run.
My advice, and it's not for everybody, is be willing to make big changes if it makes you and your family significantly happier. Discuss it thoroughly with your partner, and your children if they are old enough to grasp what's going on. Five or six is old enough, you will just have to articulate it differently than with your partner, but to be able to voice your issues and ideas will also help you to see them more clearly. We had discussed our family situation and explored options for several years before events told us that it was time to get a move on. Your time may not be now, but perhaps it is coming soon, so it pays to prepare everyone for it.
To directly answer one of your questions, I'm not dreading getting up in the morning tomorrow, just the time it needs to happen, as I have a 750 mile drive to do. I will get to spend most of a week with my 94-year-old mother-in-law, doing what I can to take care of her. And spoiling her, feeding her, stocking her fridge and freezer with three months of meals, and taking care of her until next weekend will be the most important thing in my life in that time. Kinda fell into it, but I was passionate about my wife, and with the wife came family.
Went back to school at 34. Appreciated the opportunity a lot more than I did as a 17–21-year-old undergrad. Learned a lot and met some great people. Love the new profession. Rarely take a day off, so no "Sunday doldrums."
I can't really add beyond what other people have said (except maybe to suggest looking into Outdoor Recreation as a major or minor, given your interests. Friend of mine took a job as a park ranger after getting this degree). But just wanted to say good luck and I hope you find something fulfilling and that you enjoy doing!
Ah, the Sunday scaries. I like what I do, but I still get them.
Anyway, I have my masters degree, but the more I look at college these days, the more I'm turned off by it. the ROI just isn't there for most degrees these days, so if you do decide to go back to college in your 30s, I recommend being VERY dialed in on what you want to do, how much it will cost to get the degree, and understand what types of jobs (including total compensation expectations) you can reasonably attain with said degree.
Had a cousin do a similar thing, left a lucrative career to do wood turning. Makes plenty, not as much, maybe, but he's far happier, and works from home.
I started school, transfer program to GMI, had enough friends and family who went there to think that was the best plan, save a lot of money and pain. Aced the entrance exams, but ended up leaving school for a great job in my teens, and stayed at it building furniture until 2008 took a crap all over everything. I had liked the work, made great money, but you need your back and your joints your whole life, so I went back to school in my 30s. All my friends were programmers, and I could do it, but it was a bit like writing left handed for me. Retook the entrance exams, aced 3 of them, but failed the algebra portion because i had used it zero times after my high school calculus classes ended, but still got back in. Took CAD jobs while I was taking classes, and remembered that I loved it, and was really good at it. It was second nature to me. I decided to forgo coding to my friends dismay, and stuck with cad, and now i'm making more than I ever thought I could. Was doing mechanical and point clouds in Michigan, but relocated across the country to be closer to family, switched to civil, and the market and pay here is far better. We're turning down work left and right, while all the city engineers we deal with are constantly turning over. If engineering were a gold rush, we'd be the ones selling shovels and picks and booze.
Since we're talking both factually and philosophically, i should say the I'm successful largely because I really like what I do, I'm interested in it, and that's how I got very good at it. If I didn't love it I could still get good at it, but at a steep cost in health, stress, and peace of mind. You also have to be out in front looking for the right opportunities; they're out there, but you'll find more of them if you're always looking. You'll find the really good ones if you chase them, and you'll learn the difference between them if you check out enough of them. I could've settled several times along the way, but each change in direction was calculated, and the right move for me. In my field, my real world experience, and my problem solving skills are what set me apart, so my background ended up being an asset instead of a liability.
Went back part-time and finished at 44. Felt awkward as hell but got it done. Got an MBA (at 50) to serve as example for my kid. I’m the same guy but potential employers are suddenly interested in speaking with me.
Good for you. Hope you land something. I also wanted to chime in and say that the way we hire is disgraceful. I'm absolutely dying to work and I love it. But employers and hiring managers seem like morons who have no idea what they're doing. They suck. I know a lot of people who are going through the same thing. But, I hope someone recognizes you'd be a good hire. Good luck.
This is largely correct. My background was in international security affairs. I somehow was passed over for jobs and stumbled into finance for the next quarter century and have now been an executive search recruiter for the past five years. If there is one thing that I can say with a great deal of confidence it’s that modern hiring practices are broken. And everyone is frustrated, candidates, HR people, and recruiters, though they can’t always be forthcoming about the flaws because they are all under the gun to not upset the Apple cart. The HR people aren’t always top notch but they actually are doing the best they can. Recruiters also leave a lot to be desired and many are outright dishonest, incompetent, or too inexperienced to know what they are recruiting for. Hiring and line managers are also part of the problem, but ultimately they are only serving their masters wishes and taking orders within the budgetary, timeline, and qualification constraints that they are handed. The true culprits are as always management. Having dealt with C-level people and their committees quite a bit, I am constantly underwhelmed, and yet never surprised, at the outcome of these processes. Many of these folks are just out-of-touch and out-of-empathy with what jobseekers are expected to go through. Their diktats do not reflect the realities of the marketplace even though many of them are ironically driven by market value of their equity grants.
I have a friend who, after getting an MBA and working in business for a number of years and having five children as a mom, decided in her late 40s she was going to go back to medical school. She had to spend a year taking prerequisites, then studied for the MCAT, did four years of medical school, and another three or so years on top of that. She is very happy as a doctor now.
Holy cow, that’s impressive.
Take it from someone in the Fish/Wildlife field. If you don’t go get a Masters degree, it’s gonna take you 10 - 15 years to make half of what yer prolly making now. I’m on my 3rd state and fourth different agency at 47 and I’m just now starting to earn decent money. It’s an adventure. It’s great to do what I love and the work is great, but there was a lot of beating my body up and uprooting the family to get there.
Was 28 before I attended my first college class.After 4 years in the Corps and 5.5 in a factory I was ready to teach and coach.I was laser focused because I was married and had a little one on the way.Got out in 4 years made good grades and I am on year 32 of my new found career.No regrets go for it.YOLO
Wow. Whatever you decide, what a journey you're on.
MGoodLuck!
Toxicology because it pays really well with a PhD and I am good at it
if I did switch careers I’d go electrician. good money to be made there and not as hard on your body as a carpenter (I was a union carpenter for 3 years)
I got a pre-med degree from Michigan but never pursued medical school. Two years later I started a nursing ADN degree. Five years after that I started my BSN. Two years later I started my Master's in Anesthesia. I went to 4 colleges for degrees for 11+ years out of 18. I was 35 when I graduated the last time. That was 12/2009
My circumstances were obviously different than yours, but degrees generally pay for themselves, imo.
Career first: Well, it's not really Sunday for me, but Saturday. Tomorrow is Saturday for me, and the next day is Saturday. I'm a middle school teacher on summer break, so life is pretty awesome right now. I love teaching and being in the classroom. I find myself having some level of fun every day. I finished undergrad with an education and history degree, but I couldn't get a job for a while, so I fell into corporate recruiting. It paid well, but it was soul-sucking...I hated every moment of the job. The people were the only thing that made it worthwhile, but I never felt enjoyment from the job.
When I made the decision to get back into teaching, it was a huge step back (gave up a good salary). Social studies jobs are crazy hard to come by, and despite being awesome at my job, it took a long time to get where I wanted. I subbed for two years (was runner-up on several jobs...damn football coaches who suck at teaching...), then went into a charter school, then four years at another inner-city charter school where no one knew how to manage and teach students (with the exception of my team), and only then did I luck into an interview with a top public school district (just finished my first year there).
Back to school: Prior to that, I knew I wanted to get a doctorate at some point in my life for at least a bucket list thing and maybe to get into higher education possibly, but for sure wanting to get paid more based on a school district's salary index. So summer of 2020, I made the decision to enroll for my MAE, with the goal of enrolling in a doc program after. It was an adjustment to be working full time and a full-time grad student (did 42 credits in three semesters), and I was able to start the doc program in the fall of 2021. Now, I am about 10 months from graduation.
ROI: Thankfully for me, my district helps with paying for some classes and pays people more with more education. While there are few people with PhDs teaching middle school, there is a 15k difference between a bachelor's and doctorate, so I'll make my money up on that and then some (especially with a pension). From there, I will also be able to teach higher education (I'd probably adjunct and double dip), but I can also move into higher admin roles too (which would pay more).
Overall, I am really happy with my decision. I am a much better student now compared to 18-22. I've learned a ton, and got to work a part-time job (on top of my full-time job and full-time student), which allowed me to use my research skills, get published, and present at conferences.
Long post, but I loved making the decision to go back (as well as changing careers). But actually, making the decision to apply/enroll/start was the hardest part.
I am one of those dime a dozen social studies major.Can’t argue with you about football coaches as I am one.However I took pride in the classroom as I am also a history geek(nerd).The problem in education today stems from politicians who have never been in the classroom and administrators who have forgotten what the classroom is like.Also coaches are told they are teachers first and coaches second(ha what a lie,checks in the mail).Enjoy your summer,middle school one tough gig.
This fall, I'm getting transferred to the junior high in my district after 11 years of teaching English at various high schools. Have subbed and taught some hybrid covid classes to middle schoolers over the years but this will be the first full time gig at that level in a long time..you do this enough and you can make a lot of different placement arrangements work.
There are days on my commute where I daydream about working quietly with my hands alone in some sort of trade but the comments in this thread highlight the physical toll it would take to do it full time. You can't beat the amount of vacation we get and that is valuable to me as a 34 year old with a budding family. I take full advantage of this 2.5 months to mentally break away and recharge. Enjoy your respective breaks.
I love a good coach who also loves teaching. It's the coaches that just throw a movie on three days a week, a chapter reading, and a quiz on Friday so they can watch film and design plays all week that annoys me.
You're totally right about the issues in education. Enjoy your break too. As my wife hears me singing, "it's the most wonderful time of the year."
I’m in medical capital sales and have been fortunate enough to build a good book of business with fairly loyal customers. I work from home so my schedule is mine and to some degree flexible with minimal travel at this stage.
My company leaves me alone because I produce but there is plenty of pressure to keep making the numbers. Having some control over my time allows me to find time to enjoy life. Sports, hunting, fishing, kids, etc…it makes it all work for me.
Being in your 30s you have plenty of time to go do just about whatever you want. I have seen people in my field go work in clinical for a few years and then translate that experience to healthcare sales. I do the occasional big home project and I am amazed at how hard it is on my body and can’t imagine being able to do that full time in middle age
Im curious about this backyard wrestling? Is this something we might find on YouTube?
If you do go back to school, finding some peers who are also in the same boat (including effect on their salaries, free time etc) is important.
(I'm a physician and scientist, so I was in school/training until age 38(!); but didn't mind it. Both because of the job but also because I was surrounded by people in the same boat, which was helpful as my college classmates in other fields were making 10-20X my salary... now only 5-10X haha).
I've worked in sales for 17 years and absolutely hate it.
However, I loved my first boss and love my current boss. I'm a big believer in the old adage that people don't quit jobs, they quit bosses. So I stay.
When I get bored, well, you know the rest...
Wait a minute, I’m confused. So you are not really Putin, you are defense minister Shoigu? /s
spaz, if you've got all that time in carpentry you have some great skills. undoubtedly you have worked on some pretty tricky projects, commercial, industrial, medical, etc. i'm guessing you can read a set of plans without a problem. if true, my suggestions:
1. you could make some medium-to-larger sized GC very happy to employ you as a super. good money and your body isn't taking the abuse.
2. you could take classes on-line, say at ferris which has a very nice reputation for construction management, and put your background and skills to work with the degree you might find valuable.
3. you could get your residential builders license and be a developer/GC on your own. it's a 60 hour course, pass a test you could probably do in your sleep, and away you go. don't have to pound nails unless you want to, and you don't have to start over learning new skills.
i'll say this about the outdoor/bio stuff. i have very similar interests as you do. i have had a few friends turn to being guides and they like it, but at least one or two would tell you that it turned what used to be 'fun' into 'work', not the other way around. with child #3 on the way i would not have the guts to switch like that.
anyway, my .02. no matter what, congrats on pending birth and good luck with the career issues.
Opinion about early, mid, or late in life career changes?
My degrees have absolutely *nothing* to do with any of my many different work and business paths. My LinkedIn page exhausts some readers of same.
It sounds like you are hoping to find a degree to inspire you or satisfy some needs or otherwise make you happy. That might not be the way for you to get happier and more satisfied. I suggest, instead, that you think about what you LIKE to do, then think about the ways you might make a happy living doing it.
The inspiration may not come from inside a classroom, it will more likely come from you watching or meeting someone, or just reading about something that intrigues or, at least, interests you. Observe others, question them. Talk to good friends, honestly and openly. Grab ideas from them. Mentally "run" with the ideas.
What would you really look forward to doing tomorrow morning? Work backwards from that to discover your first step(s).
And congrats on the 3rd. I hope you find much joy....
Two more months and I retire from The Man.
I studied Industrial & Operations Engineering at UM. Started out working for a large chemical company in my mid-20s, carved out an overall satisfying career as a supply chain professional. Have worked with people from all over the world and travelled globally as well. Raised three kids. Never a passion but I’ve made a fair amount of $ so I expect a secure retirement.
Best wishes for your career moves.
I went back to grad school at U-M School of Information when I was 34. Spent 3 years getting my degree in Archives & Records Management and Library & Information Science, along with my teaching certification as a school media specialist. This was after working as an ethnohistorian/editor for some years and just feeling a need to redirect my professional focus. I was single when I did this, and your mileage may vary given your situation, but I enjoyed the hell out of it for more reasons than just the academic part. It's pretty rare in life when you're given the opportunity as an adult to make a lot of close new friendships, and grad school provided me with that. I never guessed that I'd be drunk wrestling on the AGD front lawn at 2 in the morning in my mid-30s and finishing off the evening with a burrito from BTB. Or chugging from an Octobong. Or pulling all-nighters. Or smoking weed with professors. Or unknowingly connecting with a dozen future real estate clients. Or meeting the future Mrs. Cornholio, but here we are...
All that to say, I look back on the decision to go back to school in my 30s without any regrets. I did not feel out of place even a little bit, and there were others as old or older than me, who already had spouses and kids. They may not have partied as much but they socialized quite a bit and I loved being around people from so many different backgrounds.
A great experience that really fueled my anticipation for the next phase in life - gave me new energy - I hope you go for it and enjoy it for what it is! And I hope you pick forestry. If I went back again that might be my choice.
I went back to school in my mid 20's. I was an advertising copywriter in Chicago, working on big clients but I wasn't loving the work. I became enthralled with cooking and went to cooking school and got my pastry certificate. I then worked in kitchens for several years as a pastry chef, made very little money, but really loved it. The hours killed me, though. It was hard to have a normal life with someone who worked 9-5. I ended up leaving once I got pregnant with my first kid and went back to advertising. The pay was way better as were the working conditions. I couldn't have had the kind of family life I wanted working nights and weekends. I am a big proponent of trying new things if you find yourself feeling burned out or not liking your job anymore. Sometimes it takes a while to find the sweet spot. Plus it enriches your life immeasurably. I've now worked both white and blue collar jobs and those experiences have been invaluable to me.
I waited a few years after HS to go back to school. Unless you have a specific career you want to go into and a track designed for that career, I would focus on getting into a Tier 1 school. Nobody will take you seriously if you have a degree from a lower quality school. You need a decent state school or better if you can get in.
I transferred into UM from a community college and it was the best decision I ever made. Work your ass off and get a 4.0 and then transfer into a great program. Apply higher than you think you can do - I applied to all of the ivies and got into Columbia - just UM offered me a massive grant based on my family income at the time. I got into Columbia bc I hand-wrote a letter to the Dean outlining exactly what degree I wanted and what I planned to do with it, and wrote emails to 50 well-known alumni & faculty asking for a referral - and one of them actually did it. Glenn Hubbard responded and said "write the letter yourself and I'll sign it."
Lastly, I didn't know what I was doing while interviewing early on. I got lucky and met a guy who was willing to mentor me bc we shared some common bonds. Working in a white collar environment is an entirely different world with different rules. Get an internship in what you want to do. Listen and observe how people interact in meetings. Who gets listened to? Why are they listened to? Best single line of advice I got is "how can you signal that you bring value to the organization you work for?" Signaling is often more important than actually delivering value in my experience. It's all a game - performance art. Interview at as many places as you possibly can. Ask them what they do and how it works.
College isn't about learning the job - it's about learning how to learn.
Shake off the imposter syndrome - you will get it in heaps. Fuck up a ton of interviews and jobs. Take risks on projects and be willing to look stupid - bc you won't learn without taking risks.
I work in a strategy role for a public policy think tank. I love the work. It's not super challenging once you have experience with management consulting, and a lot of the job is just communicating ideas the executive team has already decided on, but in ways that provide evidence that their decision is the right direction.
Lastly, there are 10M ways to get into 10M different careers and many of them don't give AF what you got your degree in (as long as it's a seemingly challenging/prestigious degree). Don't stick around at a shitty job or with a shitty boss waiting for a raise. The days of company loyalty are over and dead. Leave once a year until you land where you really like your boss and the pay. Leave as soon as you're not being paid enough anymore.
Again, it's ALL just a game. Learn the rules. Learn who runs the board. Learn why there are differences between what they say and what they do. Don't be the best employee (or you'll make enemies and get more work put on your plate for free) and don't be the worst (or you'll be targeted for layoffs, etc). Be just above average. Solid, reliable, but have firm boundaries in place and don't go above and beyond. Learn which places respect work life balance vs. places that say they do but really don't. Almost every raise and promotion I've gotten has been from exiting a company and entering a new one.
@Dennis This is fantastic advice and so true.
The main reason that I am such a stickler here for upholding Michigan’s academics over pursuing compromises for the sake of the athletic department is because reputation and signaling matter in the job market. It’s more important to uphold that high standard for the sake of 50k+ students than it is to compromise for a few five-stars in a 150 person football program.
Your reputation is the only thing you have and once it is tarnished it’s tough to rehabilitate. Hiring mangers, whether consciously or not, demonstrate time and again through their actions that it matters. So yes, if you are intent on pursuing higher education, it’s best to do so at the best place that is within your grasp financially and admission-wise.
The life of a tradesman! I'm in the same boat, but manufacturing. It's frustrating to say the least. Building things, actually making something and putting it together to make the world go 'round, there's a lot to be proud of in that for sure, but the schedule is infuriating. I don't even work a ton - 5 ten hour days and a half day on Saturday when we're busy. When you work a 40 hour week though it really shines a light on how much you're missing out on outside of work, or how much time you could be sinking into something that's more valuable to you personally.
Unfortunately for a schmuck like me the money is too good to think that going back to school without any true direction is an option. The last couple years though I've managed to get into the real estate market (as a landlord) - once by force and again by choice, and that's definitely got wheels. I'm optimistic that one day it'll give me the freedom to get out of the shop early and enjoy some extra time in my twilight.
Good luck in school!