OT: Stafford/Top 10 Current NFL QBs
With Lions having a bye week, thought I would toss out a brief debate. Ton of Lions fans complain about Stafford, and I certainly understand the reasons. But looking at the NFL – for the current year only, I can only think of a handful of QBs I would rather have leading the team as opposed to Stafford, and believe he is in the Top 10. Here is the order I have, only separating the Top 5 against the Next 5 (I know who is #1, the rest are debatable).
Top 5: Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Mahomes, Wilson
Next 5: Prescott, Stafford, Wentz, Watson, Rivers
Anyone think Stafford doesn’t belong in current Top 10, and if so, who would you replace him with? Not looking at youth/future (Goff, Mayfield) as consideration – just talking current impacting 2019.
October 6th, 2019 at 5:33 PM ^
How about we win a playoff game before we start sucking our own dicks
October 6th, 2019 at 5:41 PM ^
Dear Darker Blue,
Take your shit take to Mlive.
Love,
JPC
October 6th, 2019 at 5:34 PM ^
I would definitely not put Stafford in my top ten. Maybe not top 15 even.
I would take Brady, Mahomes, Rodgers, Brees, Roethlisberger, Wilson, Watson, Wentz, Newton, Rivers, and Goff for sure over Stafford.
There's an argument to be made for Dak, there's an argument to be made for Matt Ryan, there's an argument to be made for Kirk Cousins.
Stafford seems to be having one of his better years, so I will give him that, but in general I am not a fan. Never have been.
October 6th, 2019 at 5:42 PM ^
As soon as you mentioned "Kork Coupons", I knew you intended to type "/s" at the end of your post.
October 6th, 2019 at 5:55 PM ^
Since Cousins became a full-time starter in 2015, he's only finished below Stafford in Passer Rating in one season.
Cousins' career Passer Rating (94.8) is 6 points higher than Stafford's (88.8).
He's not flashy, but he's good and generally efficient, more so than Stafford. Look, I don't want to like a Spartan, but Cousins is a good pro QB.
October 6th, 2019 at 6:17 PM ^
"Good" is a stretch in my mind. He's average.
Check out Kirk Cousins stats/wins&losses against pro teams with winning records.
October 7th, 2019 at 10:25 AM ^
Check out Stafford's win/loss record against pro teams with winning records..
October 6th, 2019 at 5:45 PM ^
Stafford is definitely in the 10 this year. Brees is out.Roethlisberger is out.Ryan has been terrible. Give Stafford his due even if you don't like him.
October 6th, 2019 at 5:48 PM ^
Um - Are you aware that Roethlisberger out for season? Stick a fork in him, he is done.
If Lions offered the Vikings Stafford for Kork straight up - guessing the Vikings might take that. Quickly...
Newton hurt half the time.
October 6th, 2019 at 5:58 PM ^
Didn't read that you were only talking about QBs that are available to play right now. I guess that puts Stafford in the top ten? Maybe?
That illustrates my larger point though - the fact that you need at least three of the best QBs of the last 5-10 years to be hurt to sneak Stafford in the backdoor of top ten QBs in the league proves he's pretty mediocre. Hey if also take away Brady and Rodgers, Stafford is getting close to top five! Hooray!
Heck of an arm, never much in the head.
October 6th, 2019 at 5:56 PM ^
Disagree on Rivers and Goff. I'd put Stafford right at 10.
Pro: Especially considering the lack of decent running game for the majority of his career.
Cons: He does seem to make mistakes at bad times. He also needs to play better against better teams.
But yeah, he's right around #10.
October 6th, 2019 at 6:01 PM ^
He's just too much of a loose cannon, as you alluded to.
He's nowhere near the QB Rivers is, even if Rivers isn't aesthetically pleasing while he plays. I would not have used the top pick on Goff, but I'd take him over Stafford still.
Both of those guys have won playoff games too. Can't take Stafford over either. Stafford is right around middle of the league for me. 13th or 14th maybe.
October 6th, 2019 at 6:38 PM ^
In general this has been my feeling toward Stafford as well. Didn’t think he was anything special in college, and I feel his career and play style is exactly what I expected out of him based on his college career. I’m not so sure he would have a career in the NFL had he not been picked up by the Lions tbh
October 6th, 2019 at 7:30 PM ^
He's talented enough, obviously, he's got one of the stronger arms in the league, he's just too irresponsible in a league that doesn't afford you the same kind of mistakes you can sometimes get away with in college.
October 6th, 2019 at 9:31 PM ^
I feel your pain, Doc Mantis. As someone who doesn’t live in the area, the whole “Stafford is one of the top five in the league” thing is baffling to me. Gotta say, when I lived in the area, there was some mysterious homerism, but maybe it’s that way everywhere. I hate to think of the level of hero worship that will emerge if he ever has a winning season or something. . .
October 6th, 2019 at 9:06 PM ^
The Lions failed Stafford more than he failed the Lions. I remember one game he completed 20 straight and they were still down 20. I think that game and the game before he was like 38 of his last 42 attempts. 0-2 though during the stretch.
October 6th, 2019 at 11:45 PM ^
Can’t put Rapelisberger, Goff, or cousins in front of him.
Raplelisberger’s career is done, so that one is laughable.
October 6th, 2019 at 5:39 PM ^
I agree with you. People forget what an average qb looked like on the Lions. Staff along with a few other players is the only reason they make the playoffs with semi regulatory after the worst decade of football in history. It seems they have good coaching for the first time in forever and they're playing great.
October 6th, 2019 at 5:41 PM ^
I think he’s clearly a top half of the league Qb. In his good years, he’s top 10. He’s never had the luxury of a competent run game (until this year....maybe). And his organization is one of the worst in pro sports the past 60 years.
He has his fair share of mistakes and his fair share of comebacks. He’s the best Lions Qb since Bobby Layne, so I’m happy to have him.
October 6th, 2019 at 7:32 PM ^
Lions are actually bottom 5 in run game but top 4 in passing game. Stafford has been great this season. He's a big reason why the Lions are 2-1-1 this season
October 6th, 2019 at 5:46 PM ^
Stafford single handedly took the Lions to the playoffs a couple years ago with crazy 4th quarter comebacks. I would say top 10 is about right and Fuck Aaron Rodgers. Can't stand that douche.
October 6th, 2019 at 6:38 PM ^
he’s been to three playoffs in the last 8 years. Pretty good historically for the lions.
October 6th, 2019 at 5:55 PM ^
I agree he is top 10. However, being top 10 is not saying much in today’s NFL. Just look at your list, a couple 40 year olds are still among the be best at their position. I love Brees and Brady but that is a sad comment on today’s QB development or something related. The league rules have done everything to aid the QB position but it has emphasized the gulf in QB play more than balancing anything.
Mahomes is the only other QB really worth watching outside of Brady and Brees IMO
October 6th, 2019 at 7:01 PM ^
I can kind of agree here. Maybe not so much with the top 10 thing, but the rest of what you said is 100% spot on. Just not a lot of elite QBs hanging around in recent years. Part of that could be injury related; hard to gain traction on a career if you are bogged down with injuries. But those have always been an aspect of the game. Tom Brady basically doesn’t have knees left.
I feel like it’s a product of a much greater discrepancy between college football styles and pro football styles in today’s game. I think the two have diverged more than anytime previously in history.
I had 2 drinks around 1:30 tho, so maybe I just need to stop drinking and go to bed?
October 6th, 2019 at 5:56 PM ^
Definitely in top 10 so far this year and he was in 2017 also.
There are 5 guys who are better than the rest Mahomes, Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Wilson. I'd also put Watson in there myself as he had a better qb rating than luck last year just his 2nd year in league and he does it with one of worst offensive lines in football too.
The rest of them are too close to call and he's in that group just with Rivers, Newton, Mayfield, Ryan, Wentz, Prescott maybe, big Ben.
The one that bothers me who just seems to automatically go into the top ten with everyone nowadays is wentz who has been very average this year statistically. He's only at 6.6 yards per attempt yet almost all place him near top. Think Foles solid play in Philly is something that has to be taken into account as well. No doubt wentz is good but I see him doing more than anyone else. Add in fact Eagles talent is big time most qbs would fare well that system
October 6th, 2019 at 7:07 PM ^
Kind of share the sentiment that Wentz has quickly been thrown into the upper echelons of QBs with maybe not quite enough to support it. I think he’s good, but I really don’t think he’s great. Same with Foles. Everyone was all about how phenomenal he was after he stepped in in the playoffs etc and played kind of out of his mind, but I feel like some of this stuff has potential to be “flash in the pan” stuff. Couple solid years and then a struggling, middling career.
I was skeptical of Mahomes being in this mold as well, but I tend to be a hater and after watching some of the shit he’s done I have a hard time not believing he’s for real
October 6th, 2019 at 7:18 PM ^
Wentz was about to be the MVP of the league in 2017 before he got hurt. I think people are remembering that.
I could see a Carson Palmer type career from Wentz now. Potential HOF pre-injury and a career somewhat below that (not necessarily bad, just not lights out) now.
October 6th, 2019 at 5:58 PM ^
The problem is that the distance between top 5 and Stafford is so immense that the Lions can’t build a contender with him at the helm...need either an elite QB, better run game, or more innovative offensive system.
October 6th, 2019 at 6:14 PM ^
Since we don't get to pick any of those guys, I'll say this. In a sad 50 years of Lions fandom, he's the best we've had. I'd have loved to see him on those teams with Sanders, Perriman and Moore.
Although he tries to do too much sometimes, I don't think he's the rate limiting step on the Lions.
October 6th, 2019 at 6:29 PM ^
Upvoted for rate-limiting step.
I think what's limiting the Lions right now is a couple pieces on the OL and then the lack of a great pass-rusher on the D. Probably could improve the LB level and defensive backfield a bit to get to a playoff-game-winning team, but primarily on the OL right now.
October 6th, 2019 at 6:18 PM ^
My list would be based on likelihood to win a superbowl in the future. Much of that is team based, but much of that is on one guy's shoulders, as we saw with Eli catching fire twice. That said: there's clearly a Top 1, and everybody else. I'd put Rodgers, Wilson, and Brees in the race for second place, since they've all won a superbowl and still have gas in the tank, then mvps like Matt ryan, Cam, and mahomes in the third tier, as they can put up big numbers, but haven't won a ring. After that I'm picturing qbs that could win a superbowl plugged into the Patriots system. Players like Stafford, Prescott, Watson, Goff, Mayfield, and Jackson would be in list. I'm probably forgetting someone or just grasping at straws after that, but I'd have Stafford in the top 10. Hes been so clutch in the winning time in the past, leading all those 2 minute scoring drives.
October 6th, 2019 at 6:31 PM ^
Stafford is easily top 10, soon as the the Op mentioned Dak in the top 10 his creditably was shot.
October 6th, 2019 at 6:47 PM ^
Stafford is definitely top-six most physically talented quarterbacks. Only a handful of guys could make the two throws for Golladay touchdowns he did last week.
Brees and Brady are on a different level due to their longevity. Rodgers and Wilson are the next level. Then there's a dropoff to the guys that have never won a title.
Stafford's 2011 was basically Mahomes's 2018. When he has had competent OCs like Linehan and Bevell, he has done quite well. Jim Bob Cooter wasted a good chunk of his prime.
Guys like Eli, Roethlisberger, Newton, and Goff are comically overrated because they have each ridden good defenses to playoff wins. Jury is still out on Wentz. Ryan and Rivers are probably the best comparables to Stafford.
With all due respect to Doc Mantis, Kirk Cousins is nowhere near the level of Stafford. Cousins is basically Kerry Collins 2.0, a fumble waiting to happen.
And I want to say something else. I have been highly critical of Stafford in seasons past. But I have started to view him like I did Steve Yzerman before he broke through and won a Cup. He's one of ours. He's a truly great guy, and he's done a ton for the community and never embarrassed the franchise. And, yes, I'm also pulling for him because of what his family went through with Kelly's tumor and surgery.
Overall, think of if it this way, if you took a blind look at his career stats, and then you added a Super Bowl win to his resume, you'd undoubtedly say he's a Hall of Famer.
October 6th, 2019 at 7:53 PM ^
I like Stafford. He’s had some bad moments sure. He’s had some great moments too, like the year he was winning every game with late comebacks, and then bad luck struck with the hurt finger.
He’s on the damn lions for Christ sake! They were poorly ran before he came and have been poorly ran during his career (although I maybe kinda like this years squad). It’s unfair to judge him like you would other qbs that have had the luxury of playing for a team not named Lions.
October 6th, 2019 at 8:26 PM ^
you sure are a thoughtful guy for a genocidal russian oligarch. i basically think the same re: stafford (though i was never a 'hater'). does that make me a murderous russian oligarch, too?
October 6th, 2019 at 9:55 PM ^
Psychological operations, brother:)
October 6th, 2019 at 10:04 PM ^
this is going to cause some soul-searching.
October 6th, 2019 at 6:49 PM ^
Stafford is Phil Rivers and in another few seasons he will get put into the top quartile just based on the body of work for his career...much as Rivers has.
October 6th, 2019 at 9:54 PM ^
He's trailing in kids though, 8-3.
October 6th, 2019 at 6:52 PM ^
I feel that some of the discussion surrounding Stafford is comparable to the discussion surrounding Harbaugh. People want to crucify Harbaugh for having 9 and 10 win seasons and not winning championships etc. Yet people are happy to see Stafford get the Lions 6-9 wins a year, and maybe make it to the playoffs but lose. If Harbaugh made it to the B1G championship game, or walked into OSU game undefeated and lost, everyone would want to roast his balls. Stafford does something similar and people love it.
I am not by any means suggesting that it’s the same people saying one and the other, just pointing out the relative similarity. Of course, comparing a College coach to an NFL QB is hardly apples to apples. Probably not even apples to oranges, more like comparing veganism to eating meat? Just interesting to note I suppose. Carry on and neg away
October 6th, 2019 at 7:23 PM ^
IDK about Stafford, but imagine thinking Prescott is a top 10 QB. If you want to go experience, you can go Big Ben, Newton (healthy), or Rivers. If you want to go talent, give me Mayfield or Jackson.
October 6th, 2019 at 7:34 PM ^
Good enough list -
Though I think its a little early to put Mahomes on that level. Like to see that same consistency and stay healthy for few more years. Not sure who to round out top 5 with other than him tho.
Wentz & Watson are there by default I assume over Cam & Ben. And I would give a slight edge to Goff over Dak if Ben & Cam were playing for a top 10 of whos playing this week.
Could be argued that Stafford belongs in top 5 in value to team. For most of his career the Lions fortunes or lack thereof have rested entirely on his arm. If Matt is having an off day (which he does) the Lions just never stand a chance. If he is on his A game then there is usually hope.
October 6th, 2019 at 7:41 PM ^
In my mind he did win a playoff game. We got screwed on the call against Dallas.
October 6th, 2019 at 7:44 PM ^
its indisputable that Stafford makes everyone's top 10 list ...in NFL QB salaries
October 6th, 2019 at 8:28 PM ^
Carson Wentz is riding that half an elite season into people's minds as an elite QB. On the old availability scale Carson is about the worst of the starters in the leauge.
October 6th, 2019 at 8:39 PM ^
Cousins seems to only play well against bad teams. Prescott doesn't seem very consistent. Stafford seems like he would be a lot more successful on a team with better offensive weapons.
Just my $0.02
October 7th, 2019 at 6:48 AM ^
As a guy who gets to at least one Panthers game live per year, I’d strike Newton’s appearance from this thread. He’s awful now, even when healthy. Like all the Shea critiques, he overestimates his arm and is regularly late. And his accuracy is amazingly erratic.
This is McCaffrey’s offense ... which, as good as he is, doesn’t bode well for a huge year.