OT: Pistons/NBA Draft Discussion
While Michigan football is my favorite team, basketball has always been my favorite sport.
While I was growing up, my dad wasn't much for attending live sports...but he did take me to a few Pistons games. And I have been at games at Cobo, the Silverdome, and the Palace. Including a few of the games at the Silverdome where they had about 60,000 fans...many sitting behind the temporary stands.
And, yes, 1989 was a great time to be a Michigan basketball and Pistons fan!
Now that the Pistons have successfully tanked themselves to having no worse than the fifth pick in the upcoming draft, they should be able to add another piece to what I think is a pretty strong Cade/Ivey/Duren core.
Anyone else concerned about Wemby being another one of those very tall players who ends up being injury prone? Or, is he the no-questions-asked 1st pick?
If they don't get the 1st pick, do you take the best-available player or draft for need? Miller from Alabama could slot in nicely next to the two guards.
Or, if you don't get Wemby, do you trade away the 2nd-5th pick for a proven veteran and/or additional picks?
Personally, I'm all in on Wemby. A healthy line-up of Cade-Ivey-Wemby-Duren-whoever feels like a playoff team with quite a bit of upside. Would probably make the team attractive to some top free agents, as well.
Cobo? Wow I am impressed. Attended several games at Silverdome, including the game that set the attendance record. Not sure if the record still stands. Also many at Palace. Have not seen them at LCA yet but I have been there multiple times.
All in on Wemby. If they don't get him, BPA. Don't trade. Not concerned about Wemby. If he bulks up even a little he is probably fine.
Was also at that Silverdome record setting game against Boston.
You could bring a can of coffee and get in!
An empty can of coffee was good for two tickets. I was there too.
The only Pistons game I have ever seen live was Silverdome and it was toga night. Otis Day played a concert after the game.
I was at that game vs. Boston. They were giving out free tickets from a fast food restaurant on Washtenaw Ave. I think I saw you all there. Hey, how's it going?
Never saw a Pistons game at Cobo but I did see the Fab5 first ever game there against UofD.
We went to Cobo to see game 5 vs Knicks when Bernard King dropped 50 to beat the upstart Pistons.
That night the Indians and Tigers were playing and we stopped by to see if we could get in (8th inning) to see finish. It ended up going extras. 19 innings.
A different kind of DH but a good one
April 11th, 2023 at 12:05 PM ^
I believe that was in Joe Louis Arena.
Q1 Concerned about VW injuries? Sure. If you're paying attention recently the most common backlash against Big Vik points to no player over 7'3 avoiding injury or having long term success in the NBA. Is it a reality? Yep, but we're talking about a sample size of like 15 guys ever. And none of them had the game of VW. Injury issues are a concern for every pro athlete. He can be 6'1 and end up with Jay Williams' future too. There is no crystal ball here. This "concern" is based on expectation and investment as much as it is lodged in physical height. But there's no GM on the planet who passes on Wemby.
If you don't get the first pick you draft then you draft Scoot Henderson. If you don't get Henderson then you draft Miller.
The simple fact of the matter is that the Piston's roster has some "issues" particularly they're not very balanced. Right now they are lack perimeter defense, shooting (wing and stretch big). They have Ivey and Cade who can potentially grow into each other, but both are better with the ball in their hand. Henderson doesn't really fit that mix. But his talent may be better than the Piston's last two number ones.
Miller fits the roster better but his potential issues are off the court.
Then you've got Duren and Wiseman who simply don't fit together and can't play together at the same time. For my money, Duren is a better option than Wiseman who takes too many shots and is less efficient.
Best case, win the lottery, draft VW. Move Wiseman. Find a 3/D wing and some roster depth.
If the pistons managed the 2nd pick and wemby was taken, I think they would more than likely take Miller. They have a 1 and 2 guard in cade and ivey. Adding miller at 6'9" and a natural small forward would allow as many of your young (hopefully) stars to see the court at the same time
Not likely. This draft will flow like this:
Tier 1: Wemby
Tier 2: Scoot
Tierr 3: ~3 or 4 other guys.
The NBA is so volatile anything can happen, I could even see them trading Cade or Ivey for a Doncic. Not predicting it but is not far fetched. The point is you have to draft the BPA in the top 5 in the NBA Draft regardless of need.
Agreed. Wemby will be the #1 pick. It's not even up for debate. There's a chance he will have a injury plagued career but that's the chance you take with this generational player. He is absolutely worth that risk.
Conversely, you don't pick Wemby, and he lives up to his potential... yeesh. I'd hate to be that GM that passed on him and becomes responsible for missing out on a player that can not only change the trajectory of your franchise but be referenced in mockery for years to come.
Think Darko draft level of failure multiplied by 5. The ridicule would be palpable
April 10th, 2023 at 10:33 AM ^
Darko...you're making my teeth grind again
April 10th, 2023 at 12:05 AM ^
He's been compared to Ralph Sampson with a 3pt shot. Ralph Sampson entered the league at 7ft2 225. While he did deal with some injuries he is a hall of famer, played in a more physical era, and was an all-star game MVP.
You take that possibility all day.
Job 1: who‘s the new coach?
Ime Udoka is available.
You just gotta watch your wives, girlfriends, and daughters real close...
You have to go all in on Wemby, too much upside not to.
If not, I'm going best 3D wing. This roster is too unbalanced to take another PG, I don't care how good Henderson is supposed to be.
Hiring a good coach will be more important than drafting a good player. Wembayana has amazing talent. I hope his game will translate well and he can stay healthy. Brandon Miller is likely a better fit for the roster than Scoot Henderson based on position. I'm just ready to be done with tanking. These last few years have been incredibly boring.
Hiring a good coach will be more important than drafting a good player.
That’s true in college. In the NBA, it’s all about the players.
It can't get any worse. Pistons have lots of cap $$ and a top 5 pick and a new head coach.
I go back to Dave Bing and Dancing Gus Sinaris, the hot dog vendor, at Cobo Arena. Gus would come charging down the steep steps in the upper balcony, lean over the railing and belt out primal screams at the fans in the lower deck. He was more entertaining than than some of those Piston teams.
It doesn't matter. It's the Pistons.
Perhaps Darko is still available.
For the record, I saw them at the Olympia.
You say this like they haven't won three Championships in the time most everyone here on this board has been either alive or actively watching basketball. It's not like they're the Lions or something.
I mean hell, how many conference finals did they go to in a row in the early 2000s?
That was a fun (if mostly frustrating, save 2004) time to be a Pistons fan
i just looked this up! i watched every game of course but was still flummoxed to find that it was six (!) 2003-2008
- 03 swept by Nets
- 04 of course
- 05 sheed wth
- 06 that amazing regular season but lost in 6 to Heat
- 07 flipping LeBron in 6
- 08 last gasp to Celtics also in 6
also GOBSMACKED to find that our franchise's best player all time was Bill Laimbeer. hey don't blame me i'm not looking to start combat basketball
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DET/
April 10th, 2023 at 12:26 PM ^
2000's? Hell go back to the 1980's, from 1985 - 1991 they went to 4 straight Conference finals, 3 straight NBA finals, and back to back championships. They were the the top franchise til the NBA bowed down to Jordan and changed the rules for him....
Yay, I'm still bitter about the curtailing they did to Jordan. Best player ever...still, but the way the league bowed down to his every whim, it was like David Stern was Jordan's lap dog....
PS: I also loved the Billups, Hamilton, and Big Ben teams as well.
New York Knick fan here. I'd happily take the Pistons record since '74 over the Knicks.
April 10th, 2023 at 10:53 AM ^
Same here.
And yet, since 2007 the Pistons have had only one winning season, finished no higher than 8th in the Eastern Conference and have a record of 452-736.
I used to follow the Pistons, especially in the Bad Boys days when I spent time in Boston and Chicago.
I stopped following them when they went Teal and haven't had much interest since.
You didn’t follow them when they won the 2004 title?
you can't be concerned with Wemby getting injured, it could be like passing on Jordan. He is more of a Durant build and with the NBA now wouldn't a team be happy with him playing just 65 games a year being fully healthy?
the way the Pistons are constructed he gits perfectly. unfortunately they basically have a scoot Henderson in Ivey. Otherwise tla great fit would be Gradey Dick although he won't be going as high as where the pistons are picking.
You can't be worried...but that exact draft you mentioned was the exact same thought process.
The 7' guy with injuries went #2. The 7' guy who is one of the best bigs to ever play went #1.
You have no idea when it comes to injuries...but this team is built for Wemby. And has a ton of cap space.
cap space doesn't really matter. I think it has been shown that nobody wants to live in SE michigan for most of the year.
April 10th, 2023 at 12:33 PM ^
I would have to disagree somewhat here. In today's NBA it is more "positionless" than ever before. I do not follow the NBA as closely as I use to so I have not seen Scoot play, but if he is suppose to be a generational type player, you take him and continue to build your roster accordingly. Ivy 'could' play the 3 if you have to call that, but at the end of the day they would be creating mismatches across the court....
Draft The Best Player Available.
1 - Wemby
2/3 - Scoot Henderson / Brandon Miller
4/5/6 - Thompson Brothers / Jarace Walker
Assuming the Pistons don’t luck out and get pick #1 and make the easiest pick in a decade or more, they cant go wrong with either Scoot or Miller. I’d take Miller since he’s shown he can be a #1 scoring option and has plenty of versatility - with great size for the 3 spot.
Scoot has grown his game by leaps and bounds and would enter the league as the most athletic PG not named Ja Morant. He would also be a #1 pick in most drafts. However, drafting him means you now have 3 ball handlers on the court when Cunningham returns, which could be good or bad depending on their next coach’s system. Some coaches - especially on the Budenholzer tree - like to have multiple ball handlers out there at once. Also, having him allows him to come off the neck as a super 6th man to start the season, or be a starter if Cade can’t go to start the year.
The Thompson brothers are both high ceiling very but low floor guys. I’m not a fan of either, but their athleticism is great.
Jarace Walker is a really interesting prospect. He’s a bit short but very built PF who is pretty damn quick and is a very good passer and defender. Despite being short, he has like a 7-3 arm span too.
After the draft, the team needs to really get some more (late 20s/early 30s) vets around these guys. After 3 completely overhauling the roster and going all in on the youth movement, it’ll be necessary.
They can't go lower than 5 due to the ability to finish last overall.
Correct. I just listed 6 guys total because there are 3 guys in that 3rd tier in my post who could all be taken in any order.
To me, #4 and #5 would be Whitmore and Hendricks for the Pistons. They fit the roster much better than the Thompson twins who can shoot a lick. I'm much lower on the Thompson Twins who are 20 and playing in an essentially AAU league in OTE with a bunch of 16-18-year-old players. Their shooting % especially at the rims is worrisome long-term when you consider that they're the best athlete in the OTE. Amen was sub 40% at the rim which is terrible. Walker is too similar to Beef Stew though Walker is a better athlete.
Some people discount the fact that things are setting up much as the front office hoped. They enter next year with a top five pick, with a solid shot at 1, plus a bunch of moveable trade assets — Bogey, Wiseman, Hayes, Bagley etc — PLUS a shitload of money to spend on free agents. The team is finally free of dead money obligations. They can land a top draftee and probably two starter-quality veterans this year. Add them to the youngest roster in the league, which already includes perhaps two future all-stars — Cade and one of Duren and Ivey — and the future looks bright. Patience! It worked for the Lions.
Surely they will still owe Miguel Cabrera a few million a year??
Bogi is the only trade asset who will generate anything (as is Burks)
Wiseman is meh, Bagley is meh and injury prone (with a dumb contract), Hayes is meh. He can do some things when there is nothing on the line and playing bad teams or good teams resting their stars - and even then just. If you want a decent sized defender who is a bench player sure - what are you getting for that in return - a similar meh player or a mid to late 2nd pick.
The other 2 guys are rim runners with modest offensive game and don't care to defend much. So they fit the current Pistons perfectly.
Bogi agree.
Wiseman is meh. But I THINK he's done enough during his Pistons' time to at least get them more than they gave up. So, i'm optimistic that can still be a win. The only 'lose' here to me is choosing to run it back and further slow Duren's development.
Hayes is meh, mostly because I think his number is/will be more than he's worth. Also, I think he needs a fresh start to realize who he is. That said, he's had a solid second half this year and worked his way out of some of his early career issues. He's never going to be the player of promise at his draft position, but he could be a decent roster guy. Also, VW and the 'french connection' does add an interesting variable. But less Hayes means more Ivey and Cade.
Talking below about Bagley's contact. I think he's overpaid, but I don't think it's THAT bad. He's 13m. He should probably be 10-11m more responsibly. The problem for the Pistons is that he's like the fifth big who can't shoot in a league where you need one or two of those guys TOTAL on your roster.
There are a lot of things I like about what Weaver is doing. And there's still a few head scratchers as well. Hopefully this is the corner they turn.
Hayes will finish the season with the worst true shooting % out of anybody this season. He's a minus offensively and it's essentially a 4 on 5 whenever he's on the floor which limits the spacing for Cade and Jaden to operate.
It's even worse when they play Hayes, Hami and Bagley on the floor because these are non-shooting players and it's painful to watch them play.
A package of draft assets and meh players on contracts that match high enough can bring back an established star from a team blowing things up or who is forcing his way out.
Biggest things these players give the Pistons is flexibility going forward. They either get flipped for something of better value or they turn into cap space when the team is planned more competitive.
Wemby...you don't overthink it.
This rebuild has been a marathon,can’t remember why Joe D. got canned.Not impressed by new owner.Been to one Piston game in my life at the air conditioned Cobo arena.Dave Bing,Bob Lanier lost to the Cavs it was ball day.Got a real ball but kind of slick and rubbery.
The big one at the bottom is the space bar fyi.
love hearing my dad talk about cobo hall too.