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and then at ND's future schedules(ACC) I would say that Kelly is on track to a sustained run of success at ND.
That said, Kelly, like most coaches, has supreme confidence in his abilities. If he goes to the NFL it is because he wants to prove that he can win at the highest level in football. It isn't about money, but ego.
This. If Kelly leaves a destination job because he's afraid that he's going to be unable to maintain the level of success he's achieved after three years there, he'll be the first coach in the history of coaching to do that. If he goes to the NFL, it would be for many of the same reasons Harbaugh did: the challenge of coaching at the highest possible level, not because he's insecure about his recent success.
You have to look at every opportunity. There's an opening for an NFL job and they are considering Kelly. He'd be stupid not to interview.
It might not ever happen again!
I hear the Lions are always on the hunt for good talent.
Brian Kelly has always been good at gettin' out while the gettin' is good. He leaves Grand Valley after going 28-1 over two seasons. He leaves Central after going 9-4 (7-1 in the MAC). He leaves Cincinnati after going 12-0. Seems perfectly reasonable to assume he leaves Notre Dame after going 12-1
Brian Kelly has also been a "climber" so it wouldn't surprise me.
Yes, he's quite the tool for wanting to move on from GVSU (lower division), CMU (AD didn't like him), Cincinnati (always 2nd fiddle).
Uhhh, Brian Kelly became head coach at GVSU in 1991. Was on staff before since 1987. Certainly "jumped ship" I absolutely agree.
You might want to change the title. I came in here thinking Kelly had decided to leave.
Fix the title please. I thought you were breaking news that Kelly had made the jump.
Good info though; thanks for the post.
Agreed..I jumped to ESPN before opening the thread.
Hope he knows what he's getting into if he goes to Philadelphia - rougher crowd than ND will ever be.
I think the premise of the article is a bit flawed. Usually a 12-win season buys a college coach at least a couple years of a honeymoon period--I would think that's especially true at ND, which has endured some rough seasons of late. I think most ND fans would be pretty happy if 10 wins becomes their new normal.
Gene Chizik says the honeymoon is 2 years. Different situation (Cam Newton), but once a fanatically unreasonable fanbase becomes highly optomistic at a flip of a switch, it is hard to subdue them.
Chizik would still be at Auburn if he'd followed up their title season with 10-win campaigns. I don't see Kelly back in the national championship game next season but I don't think the bottom completely falls out at ND either.
Do you think ND wins 10+ games next year?
/not tongue-in-cheek
They play us, OU, USC, Stanford, and MSU (whom I think may surprise them defensively), and Pitt. They always have trouble with Pitt. I dont see them better than 9-3, may be alone on that.
http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa-13/indep/2013-notre-dame-fighting-irish-...
I wasn't saying Kelly would necessarily win 10 games per year at ND. All I was saying is that if Kelly does wiin 10 games per year at ND, I don't think he'll be fired for underperformance. (Dodd was arguing the opposite in the linked article).
I agree with your assessment that 3+ losses is likely for ND next season, given their personnel and the schedule they play. That's all the more reason ND fans should be satisfied with Kelly if he posts double-digit wins again in 2013.
with Dodd. But I'm not convinced Kelly is a great coach either, so what follows a 9-3 season, as I see it, is disenchantment, and sharply reduced possibilities as an NFL coach. It's not that Kelly sh*ts the bed, but that the NFL opportunities are ripest now; don't think Dodd gets that wrong.
Without being a Michigan fan. It's hard because he's the coach of one of our rivals. But anybody that says Brian Kelly is not a good coach clearly does not know football. The guy has won everywhere he's been. Yeah, he might get a little "purple faced" once in a while with a player but so does saban. And ND has been putting some pretty good recruiting classes together too. Kelly can coach, and I'd be happy as hell if we didn't have to go against him on their sidelines next year
Kelly's already done plenty of things that would preclude me ever letting my son or daughter play for him. I'll leave it at that. And yes, he is a rival coach, and of course that colors my feelings. But these things also go beyond the rivalry.
He went 8-5 last year and 3-9 this year (including a 49-0 loss to Alabama). I don't know how many wins would have kept him at Auburn, but I know it was more than three and probably 8 or more.
I think Kelly almost certainly does better than that.
Chizik's a bad comparison. Auburn didn't decline to 10 win seasons. They declined to a 3 win season. They were 0-8 in the SEC and lost their last 2 SEC games by a combined 87-0. They suffered a historic collapse for a BCS champion, and there was a convincing narrative about why Chizik as relatively unimportant to their success (Cam/Malzahn).
Its not that Chizik was unimportant to their success, its that he vigorously ran off the guy primarily responsible for their success - Malzahn - and hired a guy to replace him with a philosophy so different that it essentially guaranteed at least a season of failure.
This has become a ritualistic dance for college coaches.
Why interview for the NFL? It's always the same thing.
1. Ego. It says, you good enough to be invited to the game.
2. Leverage for a pay raise.
3. Prestige -- gives you an incremental reason to look better with recruits, asst coaches, etc.
4. Why not? Strike when the iron is hot.
5. Most coaches probably look at the NFL as a fantasy job -- not only insane paydays, but, if you're a competitive person, why not compete at the highest level. Harbaugh's the example of that.
So Kelly is probably subject to at least 3-4 of these reasons. Whatever. I can't be more clear: There's nothing to see here.
Saban turning down the NFL is more newsworthy than Kelly, or anyone who just made a BCS case, in talking to the NFL.
Actually focus on football and eliminate a ton of university politics (boosters, academic requirements, NCAA rules/tracking, Ath dept BS, etc).
The univ burden is huge and most of these guys "just want to get paid for coaching football." I would guess the crapola is super thick in South Bend with all the pretentious alumni & church ties.
His stock will never be higher. This team overachieved, and as I've stated several times on this blog, he was overrated before. If he intends to go, now is the best time.
Bullshit... his team didn't 'overachieve'..... ND earned it... anyone who was watching closely, saw their trajectory.... and soon ours will be similar. Kelly is a great coach.
What? The beat Pitt because Pitt missed a chip shot field goal, they beat Stanford because a clear TD was ruled as coming up short, they beat us because we had 5 turnovers and they beat USC because instead of Matt Barkley they played a frosh in his first ever start. They finished the season by losing to Alabama as bad as anybody all season. Their only real win was against an Oklahoma team that was very clearly overrated (and who also beat nobody).
I'm not saying ND isn't a top 25 team, but they were lucky to be top 10. If Pitt hits that FG or we don't implode or Barkley plays, ND is outside the top 15 I bet.
We had six turnovers.
/douchechill
Really? We are supposed to believe that someone at this high a level is going to leave a job because the expectations are too high? These college football coaches get to where they are by going up against unfairly high expectations their whole careers. Plus, are you kidding me? The NFL? Because the expectations aren't high in the NFL are they.
ND beat Purdue by 3, Michigan by 7, BYU by 3, Stanford in OT, and Pitt in 3OT, all at home. They beat USC, without their starting QB, by 9.
And it isn't like any of those programs had great years, outside of Stanford (and they had issues on offense all season long).
If Te'o hadn't come back, what is ND's record this year? With him leaving, not to mention a bunch of key components on offense, and the schedule probably getting more difficult before it gets easier, I'm sure Kelly sees a difficult task in front of him, especially when you consider 9-3 and missing out on a BCS bowl would probably be viewed as a failure.
Especially with the way the title game went, a few 8-5 seasons could easily put him back on the hotseat in South Bend. I see that as more likely than continued 10+ win seasons.
Looking at it from Kelly's point of view, he can stay at ND where he will have to maintain an extremely high level of success from here on out or potentially get canned in 2-3 years (let's not forget how quickly fans forgot Chizik's success, and he actually won a national title at a school with no history of doing so in modern times). Or he can get a raise to go coach in the NFL where he only has to focus on X's and O's and where 4-5 losses a year is considered a great season. And even if he lands in a bad spot and fails to win games, he can always go back to college where he'll still be a highly prized asset.
If he ever had designs on going to the NFL, this is probably the best chance for him. He has taken a team and greatly improved them year to year which culminated in an undefeated regular season. Take that plus the extraordinary amount of NFL jobs available and it stands to reason his position would never be better. Thats why he would go, not because of the pressure to duplicate his efforts again because its only going to increase in multiples once he deals with NFL fans (and increase exponentially if those NFL fans reside in Philly)
goes to the nfl. Urban jumps all over that
job and ohio eats a fat one in two years. E-A-G-L-E-S... Eagles! Let me dream.
Huh? So Urban takes a job that he already turned down when he went to Florida? That makes no sense.
Not sure what their turnover margin was this year either, but I'm sure it was astronomical and unlikely to repeat. Teo had like 7 INTs alone.
But Kelly is a good coach and has been successful everywhere he's been: GVSU, CMU, Cincy, NDame.
Notre Dame would lament this loss, but I think more kudos should be given to the Eagles for considering it.
So far Kelly has proven to be very opportunistic with new job offers, but I have the feeling he has unfinished business and will stay with the Irish.
It's nice to have a coach that you know won't be interviewing with any NFL teams.
as I was that Lewan will leave college for the NFL.
The only reason why Kelly would leave for the NFL is because he would have high expectations for himself. You always want to progress forward, move forward.
Kelly is worried about keeping up his high level of success, so he's considering a job with.... the Eagles?
Les Miles. This strategy always gets more cash for Les. [bad pun intended]
He strikes me as the type of guy who gets irritated rather quickly. I imagine dealing with boosters and parents probably aren't his favorite things about college coaching.
So he'd prefer to substitute boosters and parents with overpaid, entitled players many of whom make more money than him, agents, union reps and arcane work rules, GMs/owners, etc?
nfl players don't make more money than nfl owners.
You read it wrong. He's just saying that many NFL players make more than the coaches and that the coaches have to deal with GM's, owners, work rules, etc.
Kelly is pretty darned good at handling the wider support communities involved with the program. Its something he took seriously each step of the way.
GVSU was pretty easy and Mt Pleasant did require a little more of his time. The jump at Cinci was huge and the AD there made sure Kelly knew it was an important part of the job. BK stepped up and did by all accounts a marvelous job on the banquet circuit.
In fact that success contributed to an amusing level of griping when he left for South Bend. As though Cinci boosters could somehow begrudge him that job. BK's sales job convinced them he really wanted to stay for the long haul.
Urban didn't go to ND before because they won't relax the academic standards for the football program. Urban tried to get that deal and they said no. He's not stupid, he coached against Miles and Saban, he knows you can't compete aginst that kind of talent unless the Administration looks the other way when it comes to restrictions and high standards.
Heck, we're going to have a very tough time getting anywhere near Bama's stature because, it's win at all costs down there. Signing 4-6 more kids thanh everyone else and booting the lower end schollie kids that don't make the championship cut. Every year Saban signs 3-5 more kids than we do and has more 5-star and 4-stars than we do. Stars don't guarantee anything, but the potential for greatness is higher and the pct is on his side.
Plus the school will let him hire ANY assistant he wants at any $$$. It's tough to compete against that all the time.
Kelly is fighting for more $$ for assistants so he can get a better defense. That's what ND needs, they'll get the recruits.
Why do you think Brandon let Hoke get whoever he wanted on defense? You have to spend the $$$ to be able to compete today. The playing field has decidely tipped the SEC's way and it ain't leveling out any time soon.
With you, but we have very little chance of ever being Bama....just saying...doesn't mean we can't be very good...
Kelly already has the most important assistant of all: Chuck Martin. The guy can coach. I'd dump Diaco and give Martin the entire defense.
Does Martin have a defensive background? Just wondering, I don't know too much outside of his time at ND. Currently he is the offensive co-ordinator and QB coach, sending him to defense seems counter intuitive.
Yahoo! Sports had an intriguing take on this - (LINK)
It touches a bit on an important cultural difference between the college game and the pro game, which would be that the NFL is a players' league where coaches aren't often quite as celebrated, with the college game typically venerating coaches a little more. That's true, I would say.
Essentially, it asks the question - "Does Kelly realize what he may be giving up?". In the NFL, you wouldn't necessarily hear the names John Fox and Mike McCarthy before you heard the names Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers. Coaches that have won, or at least gotten to the BCS, tend to be held in somewhat higher esteem overall.
I do wonder if that is something he would think about - if he jumped to the NFL, his success would be dependent on many more things outside his control, and he does have at least a little more control over his own legacy at Notre Dame, in my estimation.
At both levels you win with players. Like you point out though, getting those players is not in your control in the NFL the way it can be in college, especially if given time to build a program.
At the same time though, people seem to recognize that and as such there doesn't seem to be any career risk involved if Kelly goes to the NFL, even if his teams flame out horrendously. Spurrier, Petrino, and Saban all had an awful time in the NFL. That didn't prevent them from making a crapload of money when they decided to go back to coaching and college, nor did it prevent them from having immense success there. Same goes for guys like Calipari and Pitino in basketball. Harbaugh and Carroll landed in better situations, but even if they hadn't there isn't a college job in the country that wouldn't consider them.
The worst that can happen is Kelly makes a shitload of dough, loses a bunch of games, and in a few years he has to settle for making more millions as the head coach at a school like Washington, UCLA, Colorado, ASU, or an SEC school that happens to be "down" at the moment. That worst case scenario at ND seems like it could be a lot less pleasant.
I think the veneration of coaches in college is not so much a cultural differece as a function of the limitations that college sports place on player eligibility and public visibility. Since coaches are essentially the only stable element of college football year to year, they have a much greater presence in broadcasting and pre/post game analysis. There's also the more noticeable variation in offensive schemes. They are, in a sense, what the broadcasters "know" from year to year. Add in the fact that they, and not players, can appear in advertisements and endorsements and the coaches gain greater visibility for their team's success.
It's even more extreme in college basketball, where the players have become, in broadcasts at least, background elements of battles between "genius coaches." (You see this a lot with Roy Williams, Coach K, Izzo, and I'd expect you'll begin to see it with Belein next year assuming that Burke and Hardaway go pro).
Compare to the NFL (or even more notably, the NBA) where star players exist in the public eye much longer and across more media types.
This is not OT. Kelly leaving would directly impact our odds of beating the Irish in our next two meetings before the indefinite series hiatus.
Extremely lucky. Him interviewing for the NFL is like a player leaving early after his stock blows up as a junior. Ask for a big salary while everyone still assumes the sky is the limit because if the team falls on its face next year he won't be able to. We were all thinking he might get fired after this year because their schedule looked so daunting.
I don't think he'll go yet. He's waiting for the Lions job to open up.
After his career with the Lions ends badly, as it does with all coaches, he will be able to retire in peace, certain in the knowledge that he will never again be tempted by being offered a head coaching job.
How many former Lions coaches in the last twenty years had another head NFL position after they were booted from Detroit? I do not think there are any. A couple coordinators, but that's it. Detroit is an absolute black hole for head coaches.
Since WC Ford assumed total control of the Lions in 1964, not a single full-time "permanent" Lions head coach has been the head coach of another NFL team after leaving the Lions. The only exception is Dick Jauron, who was the interim coach for 5 games during the 2005 season after Mariucci was booted. Jauron was not retained by the Lions for the 2006 season, and subsequently was hired by the Bills as their HC.
Detroit is where head coaching careers go to die.
It's not like ND is the only team that got hammered by Alabama this year, or the only team that ever got slapped around by Saban when he has a month to prepare. I think Dodd is underestimating ND and northern football in general, and lionizing the SEC based on the results of one game.
That being said, ND certainly did need a lot of "help" to get to the MNC game.
If this at all means turmoil for them, God Bless 'im.
After Notre Dame's 15 or so years in the wilderness before this year, Kelly gets 2-3subpar years before he has to worry. ND recruits above all but 2 or 3 of its opponents per year. In the pros there's no guaranty talent superiority and not much job security. I think leaving would be a mistake.
