OT: MLB start of season, the new pitch clock
The MLB season is only 3 days long --- but with the small sample size of games we have, the length of games is down A LOT. Which is arguably a good thing for the TV viewing experience.
However, I went to a game on Saturday evening. Diamondbacks @ Dodgers. From the in-stadium experience, I'm not sure I liked it. Game seemed to go by too fast. The ballpark is good for kicking back and relaxing and enjoying the company that you're with. 2:14 on a perfect weather Saturday evening, in a game that had 11 runs and 13 hits, it wasn't a pitchers duel. Even with a 6:10 local start, it wasn't even dark for very long before it was over (come June, it wouldn't be dark, even in a city that's not in the western portion of its time zone).
Curious others thoughts. This does seem like a big change to the MLB experience.
Have the same concern about in-person. Love to drive the hour into Detroit for a day at the park. Not going to be happy if the game time is two thirds of what it used to be, especially for the same price
So, you're ok paying and watching the pitcher and batter stand around and adjust their hat, their cup, or their chew. Got it!
Agree wholeheartedly EGJ.
Another improvement would be robot umps on balls and strikes cause umps suck at that.
With a shorter game, there is less time to sell concessions and merchandise. So, there are lost revenues.
With a shorter games, payroll hours are reduced. So, costs are reduced.
My guess is that the owners understand this. They see fans leave early all the time. The pitch clock sells “a better fan experience” while ultimately increasing ownership revenues.
NOT TRUE. MLB definitely looked at this factor. They surveyed all MiLB teams about this very point and none experienced lower beer or concession sales when using the Pitch Clock.
Totally agree - and I wonder if that’s because of the lack of beer sales late in the game before the pitch clock.
You went to an outlier. Games have been averaging like 2:45 this season, which is actually still longer than games used to be in the 70s, 80s, and early 90s.
Loving it. The faster pace is definitely more enjoyable, as is seeing more action on the base paths without that heinous shift.
Rob Manfred finally did a couple things right, God bless him.
I'm torn. I really like the faster pace, and if it took a clock to do it, fine. I'm a traditionalist when it comes to batting: get in the box and stay there. There's absolutely no reason to back out on every pitch, unless you're trying to milk your at-bat for the attention.
But the shift is a legitimate defensive tool that has been taken away because it worked too well. It's been done sporadically since the 40's when it was used against Ted Williams. To me, the infield shift is no different than the outfield swinging toward the line for a pull hitter. And if the batter is unable or just too stubborn to hit it the other way, too bad.
I've gotten tired of baseball turning into 3 hours of a few home runs and many strikeouts. Putting the ball in play is definitely preferable. But I think the shift is an over-correction.
You can still shift an outfielder though. So instead of bringing an infielder across to play shallow right on a pull shift, you can bring your left fielder to play there.
But the shift is a legitimate defensive tool
100% agree.
It's as dumb as the intent to deceive penalty in football. Every play is an intent to deceive.
"All warfare is based upon deception." - Sun Tzu
"Does it count if you deceive yourself? Asking for a friend." - George Custer
If you deceive yourself more than three times, you're playing with it.
MLB decided, they care less about traditionalists than they do Gen Z. I cant blame them for that. The future will not include baseball (in a significant way) if they dont change the game.
What's the rule change on the infield shifting?
Two fielders on each side of 2nd and both feet on the dirt.
An outfielder can come up and be a 5th infielder, but he can't be on the dirt, he has to stay on the outfield side of the grass?
Two fielders on each side of 2nd and both feet on the dirt.
I like the pitch clock, maybe add a few seconds. It does seem like the game moves a little too fast vs what it always has been. It was getting ridiculous with all of the batters stepping out after almost every pitch, unlimited timeouts, pitchers facing one batter, etc.
But I think the 3 pickoff throw limit is too low. Seems forced. I do like that banning the shift has seemed to re-emphasize batters making contact, reducing strikeouts, etc. It also seems so far there are fewer overall pitches being thrown. Both are key. It'd be nice to see an increase in complete games and/or fewer pitcher injuries. I do wonder if the increased pace will harm the pitchers?
There's not a rule that "prevents" a 3rd pickoff throw. You just have to get the runner out if you throw over again. Which I like, bc too many pitchers just lazily threw over to wear our the runner's legs -- with minimal chance of getting the pick off.
Of course, but it's essentially a 3 pickoff limit as I said. If your 3rd throw doesn't pickoff the runner, it's a balk. I summarized it the best I could, although I figured someone would nitpick me. You win. I think maybe 4 or 5 is a better number.
Some of these pitches can’t throw fast and accurate to first. Like Dan Plesac says on MLB Tonight: “They can throw a fastball 95 mph but can’t play catch with their kid.”
My son was a pitcher in college and had a really hard time playing catch with a "normal" person, AKA me or our next door neighbor kid who was in middle school. He was just so used to throwing hard that it didn't feel natural anymore to throw leisurely and for fun and he was afraid he'd hurt the person catching the ball.
IMO it's a big improvement all the way around.
I attended 3 exhibition games in Lakeland and have watched one regular season game on TV this season (Detroit's opening game at Tampa) and there's a noticeable improvement in the pace and action.
Though none of the 3 exhibition games were pitcher's duels (here's the total # of runs and elapsed time of each:
7 runs/ 2hrs 28min
11 runs/ 2:34
15 runs/2:48)
...and the Tigers lost 4-0 the opener Thursday in 2:14, I found myself paying a lot more attention because it seemed there was constant action rather than the long drawn out lulls that lead to distraction & boredom.
It was a breath of fresh air!
Not only was the pace much improved, but also over those 4 games I'd estimate there was approximately a half dozen more hits due to the anti-shift rule.
With the other new rules (limited # of tosses to hold runners and larger bases), I'm anticipating a lot more base stealing. Being that the Tigers are the Tigers, though, I really can't say I've noticed any uptick yet in stolen bases or attempts, but likely that's because first, one has to
a) get on base; and
b) be someone other than Miggy (currently #3 in OBP for Detroit)
...if stolen bases are to become a possibility.
I've always been a big baseball fan and Tigers fan, even thru all the lean times. But baseball over the last decade has really been testing my patience and my endurance as games have gotten s l o w e r &
l o n g e r than ever before!
Though the pitch clock seems to be changing the natural flow of the game, as you point out, it's returning to what used to a natural flow.
The game experience had subtly altered year by year from playing the game to players indulging their quirks.
It's almost as if MLB had been conducting an experiment on us: seeing how long they could extend the games a few minutes a season till we noticed.
Imagine if basketball players could take all the time they wanted to throw a ball inbounds or walk around the floor before taking a free throw: it would add apparent drama but games would take forever.
I agree here.
I was at Michigan's series against Penn State last weekend and the games were much better paced--more like the way the sport was played 50 years ago. The NCAA uses the pitch clock now too and limits catcher mound visits. Last Sunday's game was actually done in 1:45, which might be the fastest 9-inning baseball game I had ever seen. Penn State batters helped a lot by getting their 27 outs in only 90 pitches, but the games are still much faster paced.
The games were 2:31 (13-4 Michigan win), 2:48 (12-3 Michigan) and 1:45 (3-1 Michigan), average 2:21.
I don't get Bally Sports on Hulu so I haven't watched a Tiger game the last few years except for in person like three times and also at the bar, but it feels like literally everything Manfred has done on and off the field is a net negative for the sport. Make a 30 year old clone of Bud Selig and go back to like 2013.
I am loving the pitch clock. Games are far more watchable now.
I am not loving the direction of the Detroit Tigers. The team's offense was all-time bad last year and management did nothing in the off season to improve it. This team could test the record loss total of 2003.
The new front office is starting a new rebuild. We have one of the worst farm systems in the league. To fix the lineup would require a massive investment that’s not worth it in one offseason. I think we should probably wait a couple more games before crowning this one of the worst teams in franchise history. Rays have a legit pitching staff.
I'm not blaming the new GM or Hinch for all of this - Avila left this team in shambles. NEVER understood why he got that contract extension in 2019.
But take a good look at that lineup and tell me where any sort of offense is going to come from. It's going to be a long season.
I think it’s pretty easy to see improvement from last year as I don’t think we should expect Baez and Schoop to have career worst seasons again. Meadows returning definitely help. Improvement from Greene and Tork as well. Don’t think it’s going to be a good lineup but better than one of the historically worst ones seems likely.
Just not sure how you can say you don’t like the direction when the minute Harris was hired things instantly were looking better than they did for the previous year.
Well, the management got rid of Al Alvila, so that's already a massive improvement. Yeah, I'm afraid we have no choice but to bottom out and start the rebuild essentially all over again -- I can't imagine this team competing this year or next, or probably even until 2026, unfortunately.
But better that than the fools' gold that was 2021, leading (crazy) people to think we could compete for a title last year. I guess -- sigh -- I'd rather bottom out (again) and then build a real winner than finish at .500 for eternity. But ... damn, man, Alvila screwed the franchise amazingly.
To take the roster he had when he came in and systematically dismantle it for nothing is ... it's almost a crime. He screwed the fanbase over royally, and if we had an owner who actually cared about winning baseball Avila would have been fired 3-4 years before he was. Unfortunately this owner couldn't care less, and only acted when the bottom line finally started suffering.
The pure joy of being a Detroit sports fan over the past decade. I know other cities have suffered (much) longer title droughts (except for football), but ... this may well have been the most pathetic decade for a four-sport city in history.
Turned a roster with Kinsler, Cabrera, V Martinez, JD Martinez, Castellanos, Iglesias, Verlander, Greene, Upton, and Sanchez into absolutely nothing. Obviously not every one of those guys was at their peak value but it takes really special incompetence to not have at least a middle of the road farm system. But we have arguably the worst in baseball. No idea if Harris gets us to become a contender again but I feel like we will at least be a competent one going forward. I really like the value he got in trades this past offseason. Even if it’s just little ways to improve the system and roster.
Love the pitch clock. Games are far more enjoyable. Going to see a slight increase in stolen bases too, which is something that was almost taken out of the game. I’m pro banning the shift as well.
I watched Kenley Janson pitch last night and he used every bit of the clock. Relief pitchers are notoriously slow and he’s one of the slowest. He gave up an easily stolen base as well. This relief pitcher/stolen base dynamic will make for more late inning drama.
Love all the changes. Might be able go see / watch a Tigers game that’s only 2 hours while still having more hits / base running.
I'm going to be heading to a BoSox game later this month and interested to see how it feels. Some Sox games can DRAG on so a bit brisker pace would be nice. As a parent with young-ish kids games that don't take 3.5 hours to complete is positive since kids will likely be a bit more engaged.
It's a bit funny how baseball games are starting to get quicker and more efficient while football games are seemingly just getting longer while basketball games, especially at the end in a close contest, take eons.
Definitely need a clock for basketball and football reviews. Ends of basketball games were already so bad and 10 minute reviews for whose fingernail touched last are ridiculous.
There was a game during this tournament where the last 30 seconds took, I swear, 15 minutes due to clock reviews, OOB reviews, timeouts, etc. It was insane.
It does seem like baseball games before the rule changes were about the same length as football and basketball games.
Haven’t been able to watch Tigers since the cunts at Sinclair bought the rights, so I’ll go with IDK.
We went to a few games in Mesa this spring and they were running around 2:30. That felt pretty good, especially compared to the almost four hour games without extra innings that I've been to. But I can see your point, especially in an evening game. There's a social element to it.
When I first started following baseball, a game was about 2:30 long. If a pitch clock can bring the time down closer to this, then I think it is for the better. The games are too long and the clock does not have the same impact on game play that other changes would (such as reducing the number of innings). A four hour game when it starts after 7:00 just is too long.
I'm a curmudgeonly luddite who spends most of his time yelling at clouds--and I love the changes. The game had become one long Mike Hargrove at bat. Now we just need to reduce stikeouts (they're fascist, don't forget) and limit college basketball coaches to one timeout. Per tournament.
The games have not gotten too short, but have returned to the length they used to be.
games in the 1970s averaged around 2:30. This is just a rerun to the traditional length.
I can't even imagine watching competitive baseball as a Tigers fans, but this is a massive improvement especially for anyone who cares to follow a terrible team.
Also, I'm realizing now that gripes about announcing had more to do with their need to fill all that dead air. Obvious in hindsight!
I'm all for increasing stolen base attempts. An attempted steal is one of baseball's most exciting moments, IMO, and it loses a lot when those are few and far between.
Watched Cleveland at Seattle last night. 2 hours and 4 minutes to play. 2-0 game, but still, it flew by. Never seemed to be a slow down, things just kept happening. Should be a boon for the vendors in the seats, who wants to miss two innings at a refreshment stand waiting to get a hot dog?
I was there too.
