OT: MLB Hot Stove heating up! LFGM

Submitted by Hotel Putingrad on December 5th, 2022 at 12:37 PM

Winter meetings in San Diego have started with a bang! 

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/34978887/mlb-free-agency-news-rumors-updates-2022-23

After losing Jacob deGrom to the Rangers last week (5/$185M), the Mets have pivoted nicely, signing Justin Verlander (2/$86M). Could David Price and Doug Fister be that far behind?

What moves are you hoping your favorite team makes this week?

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rdonahue87

December 5th, 2022 at 1:25 PM ^

I was just trying to be fast. And I think quality speaks more than quantity in this instance because it's not like he was a mediocre-at-best player in Detroit who morphed into a perennial All-Star in Houston. He went from an elite pitcher on a slight decline back to an elite pitcher. 

 

Actually, I gave him credit for 2020 in my initial post where he pitched a whopping 6.0 IP so it's even more one-sided than I made it look. 

He spent less than 3.5 seasons in Houston. He's not an Astro. 

Joined: 11/26/2022

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MGoGrendel

December 5th, 2022 at 12:50 PM ^

Rangers are going to be eating a lot of salary for the next five years.  deGrom hasn't been an all-year starter for years, especially last year.  You don't have to wonder why the Mets, with all that money, let him go.  Verlander should be an upgrade that should upset Braves fans (like me).

Joined: 01/21/2013

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Hotel Putingrad

December 5th, 2022 at 1:32 PM ^

We're probably out on Rodon now, but if we bring Bassitt back, we're good. Even if no Bassitt, I'd be okay with Walker and taking a flyer on somebody like Cueto.

Biggest problem is CF. Nimmo is as good as gone, and Marte wouldn't hold up there for a full season. Maybe Haniger? Though I've heard we're sniffing around Benintendi too.

Joined: 12/10/2014

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TeslaRedVictorBlue

December 5th, 2022 at 1:40 PM ^

Mets have a lot of holes. Our DH is a disaster. We have 1 starting outfielder right now. Are we counting on Alvarez to be the DH? Catcher is a mess if so.. 

And, if we are counting on Verlander and Scherzer to stay healthy all year, that aint happening. Best bet is they miss minimal time and are healthy for a post-season run. I don't love this... I get we had to replace De Grom, but... I'm not sure this is going to end well. I hope I'm wrong.

This feels like the pre-ponzi mets who just bought shitty old players and never had any sense of plan. Again, hope i'm wrong.

Let the young talent come up, or trade for some legit stars in their prime.

I still don't know why we aren't after Trea Turner.

Joined: 09/02/2021

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Macenblu

December 5th, 2022 at 2:45 PM ^

Because the Mets are trying to replicate the Dodgers model except that they are 3-5 years behind in the process.  They will have to (and want to) pay Pete, McNeil and eventually Alvarez.  They need to build up their own farm system so the plan is to pay a large annual average for short-termers now while they can groom their own players.  Once they can bring up enough of their home grown players they'll then consider the Mookie Betts/Freddie Freeman type contracts but it doesn't make sense to do that right now

Joined: 05/29/2013

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charblue.

December 5th, 2022 at 1:06 PM ^

That's my take. The Mets are trying to recreate the Tigers starting rotation with Scherzer and Verlander as their aces after losing Jacob deGrom to the Rangers in a deal in which the Mets have paid the reward for Verlander's World Series and Cy Young season. The big right-hander who will turn 40 next year has said he would like to pitch until he's 45 becoming the Tom Brady methuselah of MLB. 

Can't believe that deGrom wouldn't even take a call from the Mets before accepting a market deal paying only $37m over five years when he could've gotten what Sherzer and Verlander are getting, $43m per with a vesting option in year three.

DeGrom would've gotten more from the Mets if he'd been willing to negotiate or place a call to their GM or owner, Steve Cohen, the richest owner in baseball. Almost as if Cohen was playing deGrom. I guess you get what you pay for. 

Joined: 05/25/2010

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SBayBlue

December 5th, 2022 at 2:06 PM ^

$43M/year average salary for a pitcher who is on the mound every 5-6 days, missed 2020 and 2021, and is 39 years old?? And check out his post season ERA. At least deGrom is 34.

I know this won't be a well received take, because Verlander is a Michigander, but that's crazy, and another example of the desperate Mets reaching. They only scored 8 runs in 3 games in the playoffs, 7 of which came in one game. Maybe start with improving the offense?

Joined: 06/29/2015

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JMo

December 5th, 2022 at 2:56 PM ^

It's not your money, why does it matter if he makes 43M or 43 tacos?  There's not even a salary cap in this sport, so it's not like Verlander's "cap number" affects the overall payroll or ability for the team to do X Y or Z. 

If Steve Cohen wants to give him his entire fortune and a night with his wife... what difference does it make?

Now, if you want to say that Verlander isn't a good pitcher, or won't add quality to the Mets, or won't help him win, or yeah, his era in World Series games... I guess you could say that about the 2022 Cy Young winner. But it seems like a tough argument to make. 

 

Not meaning to sound churlish or preachy... but these conversations "work" more in sports with caps because the salary of one person has a direct relation to the rest of the team. It's less applicable here. But really I think that the contemporary sports conversation (read fans and media) have conflated a productive conversation about salary relationship to lookeeloo wallet-gazing. We'd all be better with less of the latter.  And don't get me started with the fascination in the media (and some fans) with Jim Harbaugh's 2021 salary.

Joined: 12/14/2011

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SBayBlue

December 5th, 2022 at 5:33 PM ^

Well, then are you saying because it's not my money that I shouldn't have a say? Obviously, I don't control the team, but that's kind of a strange take. There is no salary cap, but there is a luxury tax. And the team usually sets a limit on what they want to spend.

Blowing $43M/year on a 39 yr old pitcher with a recent history of arm problems and a very bad postseason ERA career record doesn't strike me as a recipe for success. Especially considering the issues they are having with a DH (Daniel Vosbach?) They could have gone after Trea Turner for 2B (who plays every day) and still have another $16M left for a Starter #2 for the same price. Considering their issues with offense in the wild card series, seems like a better strategy.

But hey, I'm not their GM.

Joined: 06/29/2015

MGoPoints: 3586

JMo

December 6th, 2022 at 9:30 AM ^

Nope, if you look up there I didn't say that at all. I said that in a sport like baseball, where there is no cap, why does it matter what Justin Verlander makes to you?  I point blank said that if you want to make an argument against his ability, or that he won't make the Mets better, or isn't going to bring value to their bullpen, go right ahead... but I think we both know that's a pretty big leap to make seeing as how he just won the Cy Young award.

What you're doing is attempting to make a value argument based on what you perceive is to be too much money. So, again, I ask why does it matter to you how much money he makes? Steve Cohen has openly said he's willing to put as much into this team as he can to make it a winner. He's clearly proving that. They still can go after Trea Turner if they want. Because Verlander's salary isn't directly tied to their ability to do anything else, like it would be in a salary capped sport. They're not budgeted out at 43m. They don't have to use that for an everyday 2B and a second starter, they can just go buy those two too, if they want.

If JV signed for the Mets for 12m a season you'd be great with it?  For the purpose of this example lets say yes. It still, based on Cohen's words and the way that baseball is setup, has nothing to do with their ability to sign Trea Turner or anyone else. This is the "why does it matter to you" point I'm making.

Have an opinion. Awesome. Like JV. Don't like JV. That's all cool. How much JV earns is how much someone is willing to pay him. That's what his value is. And if Steve Cohen wants to pay him 43m and he's willing to continue to invest in his team, then it shouldn't have any significance to you. If it does bother you, maybe ask yourself why.

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