a2_electricboogaloo

January 19th, 2015 at 1:10 AM ^

It seems like its been a sure thing that he'll leave for months now, but it still sucks.  I wish we would have been able to retain him somehow, but his future output probably won't be worth the money that he'll get from Washington.  Also 7 years is definitely longer than I would want to sign him.

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TheLastHarbaugh

January 19th, 2015 at 1:16 AM ^

Shields will likely end up signing with the Tigers for much cheaper. It'll be better in the long run.

The Tigers have really handcuffed themselves with all of the monster deals they've given out. Verlander is sadly going to go down as one of the worst contracts of all time.

Edit: Plus, if we have to pick one, Price is the better pitcher.

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TheLastHarbaugh

January 19th, 2015 at 2:56 AM ^

Even if they don't ink Shields I'm fine with the Tigers' starting rotation going into next year. It's their defense and bullpen than still have me worried.

I still hate the fact that we have arguably the single worst defensive player in baseball (Castellanos) starting at 3rd base. I don't care that he's young. I don't care that he's an OK bat. He's such trash on defense, even replacing him with a below average player would yield great results.

You want to help the bullpen and the pitching staff overall? Replacing him would be a great start.

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CoverZero

January 19th, 2015 at 2:16 AM ^

Its not over for Verlander.  He is getting healthy after the core surgery, and developing another pitch as well as adapting his style to his age.  He should have another 5-8 effective years left.  The guy is an animal competitor.

Frankly Im more worried about his distraction with Ms. Tits than his decline physically...

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TheLastHarbaugh

January 19th, 2015 at 2:47 AM ^

That's highly optimistic, IMO. It's more likely that he will get worse than get better. I just don't buy it. 

If it was the core surgery that was the problem, why did he start off so hot (2.38 era in April) and then implode over the course of the rest of the season (5.54 in May, 6.82 in June, 4.78 in July)?

His era was 4.08 in August and 3.89 in September, but that's still not particularly good, and nowhere near worth what he's getting paid.  

Regardless, the fact that he did far and away his best work early in the year defeats the "he was still suffering from the surgery" argument.

The reality is he is a picther who was overly reliant on his extremely dominant stuff, particularly his fastball, and once his fastball became good instead of "one of the best in baseball," most of his secondary pitches became far more hitable, and he has struggled immensely as a result.

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FauxMichBro

January 19th, 2015 at 1:14 AM ^

good for max. great guy, glad he is getting paid. but i'm glad it's not the tigers. he was already losing mph on his fastball last year, and JV has shown just how quick one can decline.

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1of12MattDamons

January 19th, 2015 at 1:20 AM ^

 

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WolverineinSB

January 19th, 2015 at 1:26 AM ^

Made a ton of moves this offseason. Already have the best pitcher and hitter in the division. They got a lot better. The division is going to be tight and I think the only team on a downswing is the tigers. Others teams are all younger and improving. Tigers do have the most money to spend on players tho



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WMUgoblue

January 19th, 2015 at 1:53 AM ^

You're correct he had a better season than Miggy last year, but Miguel played with bone spurs all season and still managed to put up 25, 103 and hit .313, in an injury plagued season he was still an MVP candidate. I didn't bring up contract or anything so that's not relevant to the debate, but one great season from Abreu and one career down year from Miguel doesn't mean the man sporting the English D is somehow playing 2nd fiddle to Abreu. I'm sure if Miggy played 81 games at the Cell his numbers would be even more HOF worthy than they are now. We can have this debate in 3 more years if Abreu is still crushing (which I assume he will be) but until then he's not the best hitter in the AL Central.

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WolverineinSB

January 19th, 2015 at 2:01 AM ^

Miguel is a great player. I did say that partially to make everyone defensive. Cabrera has had lingering injuries for a couple yrs. who knows if he will really be 100% for a season again. For baseball I hope he is. In baseball I think contracts are an important point bc they can determine what an organization is able to do and it's important to look at productivity for the money. My argument is more for the next few yrs. not just 2015.



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JHendo

January 19th, 2015 at 1:34 AM ^

I hardly call the Tigers in a downswing. Yes, they lost Max, but they still have 2/3 pitchers who could be inserted into most rotations in the league and be the unquestioned ace. On top of that, Cespedes should add some needed offense (and some great throw outs). Yes, it will be tight in the Central, but between Cleveland, KC and Detroit. Chicago and Minnesota are firmly in the unlikely to be much of a threat category.

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WolverineinSB

January 19th, 2015 at 1:42 AM ^

They are an old team. Their stars are all older and in baseball players seem to get old quick. KC plays a style that won't have them compete every yr. The sox did it when they won the WS. It's a flash in the pan style. The twins have a very good farm system and some good young pieces. They aren't there yet but they will win games u may think they shouldn't. The white sox improved in all phases this offseason. They had the worst bullpen in baseball and added a great closer and a couple other arms. Added cabrera to fill out the outfield. End of the rotation is a question mark but sale, shark, and quintana is as good of a top 3 as there is in baseball except maybe the Nats now. I like those 3 more than any of the tigers guys. Also have Rodon in the minors who is a future ace.



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AnthonyThomas

January 19th, 2015 at 1:50 AM ^

To preface, I am not a Tigers fan or a fan of any American League team.

The White Sox are absolutely not better than the Tigers, and will likely not contend in 2015. Chris Sale is one of the best, but their starting rotation is enemic once you get past him. Samardzija was good (not great) with the Cubs. He is only above-average in the AL. And by no means is their outfield up to snuff. Laroche was a good signing as a mostly everyday 1B, but not Scherzer or Lester-level. He is an everyday piece that will help the team but will only gain them one or two wins when it's all said and done. 

And if KC's style is unsustainable in your eyes, then how the hell can you reconcile a "flash in the pan" identity? 

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WolverineinSB

January 19th, 2015 at 1:56 AM ^

I'm not saying they will win the division but they could be a wild card. The white sox did the small ball thing once. And then they couldn't replicate it the following yrs. it's very hard to do and the royals don't have enough to constantly contend in my eyes. They have a great bullpen but they had that the yr before as well and did nothing. An outfield of Eaton, Cabrera, and Avisail is much better than the tigers.



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JHendo

January 19th, 2015 at 9:40 AM ^

Don't confuse "old" team with "older" team.  The Tigers are actually in the middle of the pack in the league for average age.  Comparitively speaking, every team is older than the White Sox because the Sox are one of, if not the youngest team in the league.  That certainly bodes well for Chicago's future, but isn't necessarily a bonus for the 2015 season.

And yes the Sox made some great moves, but Max leaving wasn't the only move effecting the the Tigers this offseason.  Illitch wants a ring before he goes and has the money to spend to get it, thus he has been allowing Domborwski to brace for Scherzer leaving this entire time by putting other pieces in place.  Plus now that it actually happened and the biggest pitching free agent is off the board, I wouldn't be surprised if we make yet another mid-sized pickup for our rotation or bullpen.

Also, I'd be very surprised if the Royals are a flash in the pan.  They've been creeping up in the central for awhile, and I think they get to share the top with the Tigers for a bit longer.  I think Cleveland will start dropping off if anyone.  In other words, this will probably be the White Sox's division within 5 years and they may get to a wild card spot before then, but it's not going to be this year that it happens.

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AnthonyThomas

January 19th, 2015 at 2:09 AM ^

No but I'm sure your years of experience in scouting trump mine, champ.

Major league baseball players will tell you that there is not nearly the amount of video scouting in the minors as there is in the majors, which puts to bed your asinine point about there being a difference between Cuba and the minors. Jorge Soler was largely figured out within the first month of his MLB debut, even though he had hardly played in the previous year. While he will adjust and still be very good like most players, Abreu proved himself to be special. He went to the plate 622 times. It doesn't even take a quarter of that many PAs for teams to figure out strengths and weaknesses. 

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