OT: Leyland's Rant On Reversed Call vs. Blue Jays
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=16339299
mlb.com doesn't seem to support embedding, but this link takes you to video of the reversed call from last night's game against the Jays and Jim Leyland's subsequent rant. It was surprising (and refreshing) to see Leyland this animated outside of a press conference.
It was clear Leyland was getting tossed once he started miming the chain of events. But oh so worth it!
When Leyland turned around after starting to walk away I told me wife he wants to be thown out.
The last couple of times I tried, I was unable to embed a video in an OP. Not sure why that isn't working right now. But you should be able to embed it in a comment.
The guy in the Blue Jays dugout is cracking up...
Give 'em hell, Jimmy. Any manager that doesn't get chucked from a game once or twice a season isn't doing his job.
Saw this on SportsCenter. It was a terrible moment for that umpire. He simply blew the call and Jim let him have it before giving an earful to almost the entire crew.
Brillant.
No, they got the call right. He was clearly out.
You blew your post.
The first base umpire called him safe and needed the other umps to come in and fix it. Ergo, he blew the call.
I would think BRCE, of all people, would be very sympathetic to someone making a "wrong call" or more importantly a "wrong post".
Actually the umps got the call right in the end.I'm sure once Leyland saw the vidoe he felt as stupid as he looked
actually, the umpire crew got the call correct in the end.
The two angles from home and from 3rd look out, but his foot is in front and to the side of the base.
The view from the camera looking at 1st shows that his foot was off the bag.
In my opinion, you can see dirt between his foot and the bag.
Funny how excessive arguing and generally looking like a lunatic is celebrated in baseball while it's fodder for criticism in every other sport.
Well, we are talking about a bunch of 60-year-old men who wear their team's uniform in the dugout, so they're already coming off as a bit unhinged.
In defense of the ump, they ultimately got the call correct. Isn't that what we as fans, and what coaches/players always want, the correct call? Yes the guy looked dumb when he waited 3-5 seconds to meagerly call him "Maybe safe" before going to the home plate umpire for help.
Edit: beaten to the punch.
Isn't that what we as fans, and what coaches/players always want, the correct call?
not if you're a Tigers fanboi
Touche!
Can't it be both? I want the correct call, and wasn't particularly upset at the reversal. I also wasn't too upset at Leyland chewing out the Ump. For whatever reason, in baseball, it's a good idea to get tossed once in a while. When an ump blows such an obvious call, waits until after the opposing manager comes out to argue to seek assistance, before finally reversing it is as good a time as any to get thrown out.
The ump knew he had screwed it all up, that's why it took Leyland putting on a three act play to finally get tossed.
I'm guessing Michael Kay (epic douchebag, by the way) would be singing Joe Girardi's praises if he put on a similar display.
that doesn't mean I'd agree with Kay.
didn't think he needed help when he blew the call last year and ruined Galaraga's perfect game.
There's no question from the video that the baserunner was thrown out. It wasn't even that close of a call. I think Leyland's outrage was due to the fact that the first-base umpire made a call from an unobstructed view, and then got overruled after Toronto's manager ran to the field and bitched. And those strike me as legitimate grounds for outrage.
While some think this is foolish behavior on Leyland's part, others (including me) think it helps galvanize the team, and is a cherished part of the Kabuki theater that is baseball.
Anyway, I posted it because I thought it was (i) funny and (ii) atypical of Leyland.
I generally like Leyland, but he made a fool of himself on this. What is the point of blowing up and degrading people when they do the right thing? Everyone rightly got all over Jim Joyce for not asking for help when he clearly needed it. This guy makes a mistake, does the right thing and gets the right call, and Leyland makes a fool of himself. Makes no sense.
This play has nothing to do with the Joyce call. One was a simple "safe/out" call that the home plate umpire has no way of helping. This one was a pulled foot call which the homeplate ump has the best view of and can help on.
I think I remember from other conversations that you are an umpire, so I don't pretend to know the mechanics of who is best in position to make the call, but saying it has nothing to do with the Joyce call is wrong. They were both bang bang plays at first base that the umpire got wrong. In the Joyce situation, when he asked his fellow umps after the game (before watching the video if I remember correctly), they said he blew it, so obviously they were in good enough position to have made the correct call. If umpiring is so inflexible that they have to find a technicality to ask for help, that is a problem with umpiring. Getting the call right should always be the top goal, not process or ego.
Yes, it was fine in this case that the umpire asked for help, and it would have been nice if Joyce had done the same -- how would he know whether another umpire had a better look if he never asked? However, the umpire in this case didn't find it necessary to ask for help until after the Toronto manager came out to argue the call. The best way to get a manager to jump all over you is to change the call after the opposing manager argues it -- if the other guy's getting rewarded for complaining, why shouldn't you complain as well and see if the umpire changes his mind again?
In this instance, the first base umpire clearly didn't have a clue as to whether Dirks was safe or not. That's why he allowed the Toronto manager to appeal the call to the home ump. Jim Joyce, on the other hand, had the best angle on the call and was sure that the runner was safe, so he did not allow an appeal. Unfortunately, his call was wrong.
Exactly.
First base has the best view on a safe/out call with the exception of a pulled foot. That's why it's mechanically (umpire mechanics) acceptable to ask for help on the pulled foot.
In the big leagues, they're professionals. It looks bad and weak if they ask for help on their own - so it's kind of an accepted practice that the umpires will ask for help if A: The manager asks them to ask, and B: The umpire feels there's a legitimate reason to ask for help.
The reason the Joyce situation has nothing to do with this play is there was no reason for him to get help (in his mind). There wasn't a pulled foot. He thought in his mind the runner beat the ball. You don't ask home plate for help on that because:
- Home plate is much further away
- HP ump is often moving to a different position and doesn't get a set look at the play
- HP ump can easily be screened by a runner
There's no reason for the first base ump to ask for help and even if he did I don't think any ump would over-rule him because no ump would be sure about it.
The reason why the umps were able to tell Joyce he got it wrong after was because they got to see the play on video before Joyce did. I don't remember which story it was, but the umps didn't "know" he was out just from seeing it on the field, they got a look at it before Joyce did while he was showering or something.
Everyone but you loved the show he put on, and it seems to have fired the team up. What are you whining about?
if the kind of show you like is one where one professional publically and mockingly degrades another for a extended period of time, I guess we just like different types of shows.
So you would rather have manager v. umpire arguments removed from the game altogether? Why? It's one of the great things about baseball.
Arguing and mocking are two different things.
do you know its ok to stand up when you pee?
These people aren't scientists, or "professionals." This is athletics, which to me, is entertainment. Bring on the show, boys. I got a laugh out of it.
have you even played baseball? or any competitive team sport? fought in battle? if not, shhhhh... the adults are talking. if you would not blindly follow Jim Leyland into a bar fight, then you do not understand the integrity of the man. what if BO told ya to go into the OSU game and bring him the goddamn ball.
Yeah, I guess we're just different types of people. I would not blindly follow anyone into a bar fight, let alone a chain smoking mumbling lunatic. Given your tough guy act and lame cliches, you might want to re-examine who the adults are.
yeah I thought that. jus different. sometimes I swing my community college degree around pretty wide. I apologize. my manly man'ness got the best of me. I agree to disagree.
I respect the fact you were probably busy on the bench, ya know tutorin & book learnin, but I was busy evaluating very complex schemes & formations and trying not get killed. Cmon! this is a fun site and your being awfully stuffy. I'm too concussed to ever understand your point anyway. Leyland fired up his players. they came back and won. yea! if ya wanna troll go run around the sidelines in south bend.
I'm not completely sure I'm following you, but I'm laughing, so I guess we all win.
+1 my new friend
The ump had a mental lapse. It was a weird play and you could kinda see in his mind he thought "out.... oh wait was the foot still on the bag?" and kinda talked himself into a poor safe call.
Jim was out there for two reasons:
1. To make a point of how this is the Big Leagues and shit like that isn't tolerated (which the director of umpires will certainly tell the ump).
2. To fire up the team and make a point. The team won, so I guess you could say it worked.
Regardless, certainly entertaining. Gotta love the skip.
Yes, they got the call right in the end, but I think Jim was upset that they overturned their original decision, not that that decision was made. It is a reasonable thing to be upset about. Either you stick with the call that was originally made 100% of the time, or else every questionable call should be up for debate/review. The umps shouldn't just pick and choose. I didn't see the homeplate umpire overturning Jim Joyce's infamous bad call last year...
With that said, I found Jim's performance to be hilarious and refreshing after his press conference shenanagins last week.
This wasn't a "hey, Dumbass, you got the call wrong" rant. This was a "hey, Dumbass, do your damn job" rant.
Motivational, IMO. 7th inning, pivotal call at a pivotal time. Doesn't matter if the call was right or wrong - I think it got the bench fired up, and sure enough - they came out with the bats hot and ended up winning 4-2. Perfect timing by Leyland I think - and he hardly made an ass of himself - I thought it was hilarious.
For the record, Leyland wasn't embarrassing and didn't make a fool of himself. This guy, on the other hand....
Hell hath no fury like a minor league manager scorned...
Classic
Grenade toss is so smooth. My favorite manager tirade of all time.
two high points that people might have missed:
3:17 - dude in maize with a huge block M on his chest, representing.
3:41 - dude in the dugout flips the bird to the umps. hilarious.
I'm pretty sure Leyland wanted to get thrown out. A couple hours is a long time for him to go without a cigarette.
on Tommy Brookens' face just before the 4 minute mark is priceless.