OT: Fred Wilpon ('58), owner of the Mets
Last month, I asked a question about Michigan alum Rob Pelinka (undergrad '93, law school '96) and the Lakers and received a hands-down great response from kehnonymous. (Here is a link to his answer.)
I was hoping to ask a similar question of the Board about Fred Wilpon. For those on the Board who do not know, Fred Wilpon is the chairman ad CEO of the New York Mets and he graduated from Michigan in 1958.
My question is Wilpon really just a bad owner of the Mets? If so, what mistakes is he making and what should be done to fix it? I ask because the Mets just lost three in a row to the lowly Marlins (who are 13-31, which means a quarter of the Marlins' wins happened in the last three days).
I ask because Wilpon is one of our more famous graduates in sports who is not a current or former professional athlete. Moreover, the baseball and softball stadium and complex is named in his family’s honor (link).
Wilpon also has repeatedly invited the baseball team to New York’s spring training facility in Port St. Lucie, Flordia. He really loves Michigan. https://www.michigandaily.com/sports/wilpon
So, I'm just wondering: What is the role of Wilpon in the dumpster fire that is, and has been, the Mets?
His role is that he spawned Jeff Wilpon who is most responsible for the mess and likely the worst executive in major league baseball. Fred's past involvement w/ Madoff also continues to force a NY based team to operate like a small market team financially.
They hired a an agent as a Gm. As the Lakers how that’s going .
Former MGR Terry Collins is an EMU grad.....he did a good job with Sandy Alderson under the MASH type- circumstances.....
He is reportedly a very meddlesome owner. He thinks he knows a lot about baseball because he was childhood friends with Sandy Koufax. His son Jeff has a much greater (negative) impact upon the day-to-day handling of the team. They also largely operate in the Dave Brandon school of PR management (too many incidents over the years to run through here).
Obviously the Madoff situation has had an impact on the how team spends money, and the financial shortcuts they take often do not work out.
As a diehard Mets fan, it's incredibly unlikely that this team has success while the Wilpons are owners unless they hit the lottery with young pitching talent like they did in 2015.
100% agree with all of the above. I'm a lifelong Mets fan who once took pride in the Michigan connection. However, in reality, the Wilpons are only outdone by James Dolan of the NY Knicks.
They make ridiculous decisions like moving the AAA team to Las Vegas. It's ridiculous because there have been times where they couldn't call up players because they couldn't get them to New York in time. (Although they finally moved them to Syracuse.)
There are also embarassments like Bobby Bonilla day, that really just make you scratch your head.
They also live in the shadow of the Yankees*. New York is a ridiculous city when it comes to the media, and the egos (of fans and New Yorkers). Pair that with the pressure of being out-done by your most hated rival which happens to be the most successful franchise in baseball, and arguably all of American sports. And the whole frugal "money ball" thing is ridiculous. Certainly they shouldn't be wasteful, but you're in a large market, open up the purse to bring in big fish. They did so with Yoenis Cespedes, but that's because they had to. Their team was out performing in 2015 and forced ownership hands.
Yet, Mets fans are still passionate, loyal, and keep coming back for more- and the Wilpons (and the Knicks for that matter) are not held accountable for their performance. Their values just keep rising with TV and content rights. In what world can you put out a bad product for a decade (or more) and increase in value?
I could go on, I really could, but given this is MGoBlog and not AmazinAvenue, I've already gone too far.
*Double-whammy (personally) that Steinbrenner was an OSU alum.
The Bobby Bonilla day is embarrassing because it gets brought up every year, but it doesn't make me scratch my head. I understand what happen there.
Basically, ownership was betting they could get a return higher than 7% or so. Bonilla, for his part, likely did not have any thoughts on long-term interest rates but took the contract because if he had access to the money, he would spend it. It seems more like a self-imposed behavioral constraint than an analysis of the market.
Prior to 2007, few people thought that the interest rate would go so low. Here is a graph of interest rates on Treasuries (and remember investments in equities over the long term should be greater): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Treasury_security#/media/File:U.S._Treasuries.png
Also, Madoff was averaging 11% returns. Big market players suspected he was faking the returns because they ran numbers showing that no investment could have that kind of average (and that's why the market didn't react when it was "revealed."). But lots of people invested and were fooled.
Anyway, back to Bonilla. If the Wilpon's could invest the $5.9 million at 8% interest in 2000, that money would have grown to more than $14 million than they owed him.
It was unpredictable that interest rates almost hit zero.
Finally, it doesn't seem like that big of a hit over time. That can't be what is holding the team back even though it is embarrassing to hear about every year.
I agree with you- financially, I can see what the Mets were trying to do, and honestly, it isn't the end of the world year-in, year-out, but that annual, negative publicity is the kind of stuff that really compounds (no pun intended). It's not about Bobby Bo... it really is just a reminder of failed attempts of the past.. Contracts like:
- Oliver Perez ( 3 year, $36M) - He didn't even throw a pitch his last season w/ the Mets... they just paid him $12M to finish his contract and release him.
- Kaz Matsui (3 years $20M)
- Jason Bay (4 years $66M)
- Mo Vaughn - via trade (166 games, $47M ....effectively for 29 home runs.)
I could only imagine the signs if MLB had a "ESPN Game Day" equivalent.
I didn't know that Steinbrenner was an OSU alum (or that things at that school have been named with "Steinbrenner." Gross -- that's a double-whammy for me also.
Yet, Mets fans are still passionate, loyal, and keep coming back for more- and the Wilpons (and the Knicks for that matter) are not held accountable for their performance.
Sounds like the Fords and Lions.
Two names: Bobby Bonilla, and Bernie Madoff. I'll let others fill in the details that I don't know precisely.
I thought maybe Fred dl'ed...
ditto
Yeah, sorry about that. I thought about more detail in the title, but then it stretches out the heading on the board and also would have to be something like "Is Wilpon responsible for the Mets' mess."
I just didn't know how to write it so I went with something bland. Apologies
"would have to be something like "Is Wilpon responsible for the Mets' mess."
Seven words is hardly a long title—it would have been perfect here.
When I first saw your post, I assumed that Wilpon had died.
Unfortunately, there's nothing about having a U-M degree that makes somebody automatically praiseworthy. Sam Zell is a billionaire and obviously very smart, but he's still a gigantic asshole.
Yeah, if I could change it, I would. What I wanted to highlight in the title at first was that (1) he was an alum, and (2) he owned the Mets. But yeah, if I could change that, I would. That's why I wrote what I wrote.
Take it up with the powers that be that don't let me change the title.
I should note, however, that when I posted about Rob Pelinka, no one thought he had passed away and or complained but I just put OT: Rob Pelinka. I get that Wilpon is older (much older) but if he had died, I would have put that in the title. I'm sorry I caused people to have such agida over thinking the guy may have died.
Here is an example of someone just saying "Keith Jackson" in 2011 but not saying anything else in the tile: https://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/keith-jackson
Of course, it is Wolverine Devotee so your mileage may vary.
P.S. Keith Jackson died. https://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/why-was-my-rip-keith-jackson-topic-taken-down
"I'm sorry I caused people to have such agida over thinking the guy may have died."
Suggesting more informative title wording ain't the same thing as caring about whether somebody has died. If Fred Wilpon had passed, it would have no impact on me whatsoever.
As I said twice, and will say again, if I could change it I would....I think it would be downright spiffy to be able to edit the posts.
I don't think that someone who is a Michigan grad is necessarily great or necessarily bad. But I do like to know more about Michigan grads because they went here. I don't care about the Lakers, but I am interested in Pelinka's role because he is a grad.
Anyway, this stuff is way off topic. Any thoughts on what Wilpon should do to be a better owner?
I pitched my creative agency to the Mets a couple years ago to improve on corporate sales, hospitality, etc. Mets guy told me the pitch made sense and he'd pull the trigger but would need to run it by people a couple grades up the chain. He advised me however that sort of investment is discouraged from the top down and it wasn't likely to happen.
True to his word it went nowhere, never got a follow up and they stayed pat.
That's all I can offer.
It's all relative. Two World Series and two NLCS losses in the last 20 years isn't bad by MLB standards. Most teams look bad compared to Red Sox/Yankees these days.
I mean, there’s the Madoff thing. Even assuming the Wilpons didn’t have an idea of impropriety (not a given) they’ve spent the ensuing years using Mets profits to pay down debt service on victim settlements rather than investing in the team. At the trade deadline if the Mets are out of it they send dudes out for cash for this purpose rather than for prospects.
Wilpons are also notoriously petty when it comes to leaking things about any players who offend them.
Fred's granddaughter is currently a sophomore at UM. Hopefully she'll be able to straighten the Mets out when its her turn.
I got to see Michigan play the Mets in Port St. Lucie, FL during Spring Break of '08 because of Wilpon. We were the only drunk college kids at the stadium that day.
So you are saying the lack of alcohol sales at spring training is harming the team. I can buy that. I mean, it couldn't hurt to sell more.
Freddy Coupon (and son) runs the team with one-hand economically tied behind his back.
Having a top 5 payroll in the early 2000s only to not see a return on his investment, he has decided that he can finish out of the playoffs without being a top 15 spending team (despite being in the largest market) just as easily as he can if he spent the money.
Obviously, the Madoff scandal had an impact originally when the amount of losses was unknown, but I the net loss he experienced was much much less than originally thought (originally estimated to be a $700mm but now it's only $60mm...which the special dividend all MLB owners received last year from the MLB Advanced Media sale covered all by itself).
As another poster wrote, the only owner more reviled might be James Dolan (NYK, NYR) but Robert Sarver in PHX is giving them a run for their money.
Little Jimmy Dolan, owner of the Knicks, is worse than the Wilpon's, in my opinion. James Dolan, owner of the Rangers, is a much better owner than both.
As someone who writes about baseball and can say he has been a Met fan as long as anyone -- I went to the first Met home game at the Polo Grounds -- the Wilpons are a disaster at running an MLB team in a big market. Ever since the Bernie Madoff scandal they've penny pinched and interfered in the running of the team. That said, I met Fred by accident two years ago and he couldn't have been nicer. I was a guest in a super suite at Nationals Park and Fred was getting a tour, as he was considering setting up a similar suite at CitiField. I was wearing a Michigan golf shirt and he saw it and gave me a hearty, "Go Blue". We talked for a few minutes and shared that we had the same ringtone -- The Victors, not "Meet the Mets". Among other things we talked about Sandy Koufax. Wilpon and he were on the same high school team -- some say Wilpon was the better pitcher, but he blew his arm out at Michigan.
Speaking of those wacky Metropolitans...
A long but thorough compendium of the Wilpon's meddlesomeness:
https://goodfundies.com/a-complete-history-of-media-reports-chronicling-the-wilpons-meddling-in-new-york-mets-baseball-6c0055acaa2
Also, they don't have as deep pockets as other owners and aren't nearly as savvy businessmen as they think. Fred had a 50/50 partner in Nelson Doubleday for the first half of his ownership period and bought him out. Then tried to build a new stadium and got hit with the recession / Madoff (maybe implicated not hit) stuff and never recovered financially. They use whatever baseball related profits there are to service stadium and Madoff debt. And at this point even if they get out from under it all I think they'd rather just pretend they can run the team on the cheap then admit they have screwed fans over for overe a decade because they were deep in debt.
He's human garbage and he's been shorting Mets fans for years because he made money from Bernie Madoff and has been trying to hide it to avoid clawback from the victims of Madoff.
Right on cue, Yoenis Cespedes fractures his ankle.
https://www.mlive.com/news/2019/05/rehabbing-yoenis-cespedes-fractures-ankle-after-violent-fall-at-ranch.html