OT - Best Place to Open a Bar in AA
As a follow up to the RIP Mitch's post, I was wondering where everyone thinks the best place to open a bar in AA would be? I am thinking th best place would be in an area with a decent student population and little competition. This location was the corner of State and Packard, but according to a fellow mgoposter, a place called Packard's Pub is set to open there soon. So what ideal place is left? If there are no ideal places, what is the ideal bar for AA (I think any place with a shuffleboard table will do very well)?
(For entertainment purposes only - I'm not planning on stealing ideas as I have zero funds to ever consider pulling this off.)
February 9th, 2010 at 1:50 PM ^
Michigan Stadium
February 9th, 2010 at 2:12 PM ^
Beat me to it...
February 9th, 2010 at 5:27 PM ^
where the hottest place in town was. Her answer, "My Apartment." Thought mistakingly at first that she was comming on to me but found out there really was nightspot with that name.
February 9th, 2010 at 6:50 PM ^
Talk about a let-down.
February 9th, 2010 at 1:50 PM ^
So... the best place to open a business is a high traffic, low competition area.
Are you the business smarts fairy?
February 9th, 2010 at 1:57 PM ^
Yes. I sold my story to Disney and they've cast the Rock to play me.
February 9th, 2010 at 1:58 PM ^
Awesome.
Sorry, I couldn't resist. No foul intended. It was just funny how you'd worded it.
February 9th, 2010 at 2:06 PM ^
Low competition isn't always best for determining where to locate a bar. Most times it is better to locate within a high traffic "bar area".
February 9th, 2010 at 3:26 PM ^
I'd say the best spot is right next to where the Packard Pub is opening. With that and Quickie serving booze, people might go there (the general area) to find a bar, instead of instinctively heading to South U.
February 9th, 2010 at 1:52 PM ^
About the only answer would be North Campus. And between dorms and family housing, it's not exactly ideal. Unless you could open one up in Frat area deep down Washtenaw or Hill, and piss off all the neighbors. I think the Athletic Campus was the last great bastion. There really isn't any place that would get me to invest at this point.
February 9th, 2010 at 2:01 PM ^
I think a North Campus bar would fail horribly. With all the enginerds and underage kids up there, it would go belly up in a heartbeat.
I agree, I think all the lucrative (and feasible) bar locations on campus are already taken up.
February 9th, 2010 at 2:22 PM ^
I think you drastically underestimate how many engineers like to drink, just not necessarily only with other engineers. It would fail mainly because you would never attract any other students up there.
February 9th, 2010 at 3:19 PM ^
It would also never attract chicks.
February 9th, 2010 at 2:26 PM ^
an "enginerd" I could have kept the place in operation by myself.
However, a wouldn't of. I didn't know of too many people who were willingly on North Campus.
February 9th, 2010 at 2:36 PM ^
Yeah, I did engineering too. But I'm guessing when you were 21 you lived on Central Campus and did all your drinking down there. Am I right?
February 9th, 2010 at 4:25 PM ^
lived on North Campus were:
Freshmen who got screwed in housing placement or students who were married and had a family.
A bar on North Campus would fail for many reasons, but it would not be because engineers didn't go to bars.
February 9th, 2010 at 5:25 PM ^
I knew many, many upperclassmen engineers who lived in Bursley Hall voluntarily, none of which were the type for social drinking.
I'm not pigeonholing all engineers into the enginerds category; I am saying that typically the 21-year-old+ engineers who live on North Campus are nerds and do not drink.
February 9th, 2010 at 4:10 PM ^
I think the right kind of bar could work on North Campus. First, its not going to be a stay open until 2am kind of bar. Its going to have to be more of a happy hour bar, catching people before they head home to central campus and drawing people to N. Campus due to rediculous specials. Most of the people on N. Campus are upper level undergrads or grad students, people that are 21 and could go to the bar. My whole senior year I had wished there was a bar on N. Campus so that I could grab a beer between classes, or celebrate after handing in a group project, or take a break from studying, etc. Plus, N. Campus is (at least was) lacking a place that serves good food (yes I do love me some panda). A bar could be a reason people stay on N. Campus. The major issue would be leasing land close enough to campus for it to get traffic. I think near the bus stop would be best.
February 9th, 2010 at 6:46 PM ^
I don't know that the "grab a beer between classes" crowd is big enough to really sustain a bar. I get what you're saying about celebrating the end of a project (usually, I just went home and conked out from exhaustion, but to each his own), and having a restaurant that doesn't absolutely suck balls (Panda absolutely sucks balls, btw) but it's hard for me to envision a situation where going to a bar somewhere just off North Campus is more convenient than just heading down to Central, especially if CC is where you have to stumble back to at the end of the night.
February 9th, 2010 at 2:00 PM ^
I think it would be successful to open a bar next to Dominick's with cheaper beer/drinks, especially with the Law School expansion in the next couple years. I'm pretty sure Dominick's owns all of the adjacent property though.
February 9th, 2010 at 2:03 PM ^
Well, I can think of about a half dozen bars I'd like to own, and run better...
(or a couple I'd like to own and run the same...)
February 9th, 2010 at 2:03 PM ^
I'd argue against the competition variable you propose.
I believe people target "high traffic" bar areas and will avoid one-off bars in areas that don't normally encourage binge drinking. It makes bar hopping much easier that way.
That being said - opening a bar in Ann Arbor would be a tough task given that it's a very mature market for bars and the success rate of new bars is already pretty low (plus what alumni coming back want to drink at a bar they never have before?).
If one were to open one, I'd do the following:
- Stay as far away from dorms as possible (limited customers, issues with underage drinking)
- Attach myself to an already successful bar in the area with a similar target clientele
- Be within walking distance for the junior/senior undergrad crowd.
So I'd say it'd have to be close to South U. Anything else and you're rolling the dice.
February 9th, 2010 at 2:08 PM ^
If you're going for the sorority type crowd, going from bar to bar and standing in line all night, you are correct. If you're going for a sports bar motif, something where you're making your big gains tied to games and such, something like Packard and State is ideal. You just have to enough seating to pack them in.
And really, with all the change (one of which started the other thread that started this one), "bars alumni went to as students" consists of Charley's, Scorekeepers, Redhawk and Ashley's (I don't count Rick's as a bar. A dive, maybe). Because for the younger crowd, there SEEMS like there's a lot of bars that they've gone to forever, but really, they have either not been around THAT long, or have recently changed in some way.
February 9th, 2010 at 2:16 PM ^
1) There is already a sports bar on State, it's called Buffalo Wild Wings.
2) You don't count Rick's as a bar? Are you a terrorist?
I will say the Packard Pub is a decent idea. However, reading the article it seems like this guy has put all of his eggs into one basket - without a freaking liquor license! That's not smart.
I lived over in that area as a senior, and I would have gone to the bar just because it's close / meet new people / etc. However, it would have never won over the majority of the group I drank with, and most of our money would have gone to other bars.
February 9th, 2010 at 2:25 PM ^
1) You do know how far Packard is from BW3's, don't you? I mean, more seriously, Touchdown or Scorekeepers would have been closer... I don't think they'll be fighting for customers.
2) Rick's is a dirty smelly hole that always had too long a line, no where to sit, and really was almost more a dance club than a bar. (Try playing darts there when people are dancing and banging into you). I didn't count the Necto, either.
But I know what you're saying. We had the same problem. There's the group of people who want to hop from bar to bar and stupidly stand in the cold most of the evening waiting to get in, and those that want to be in a bar, drinking, socializing, and watching the game. And they're often in the same group of friends (they were in mine too, just like yours).
February 9th, 2010 at 2:28 PM ^
I have no idea what you're talking about...
February 9th, 2010 at 2:06 PM ^
Can anyone shine some light on this...not sure if it's worth its own thread but why are there so few bars for UM students to congregate at?
Granted, I haven't hit the bars at very many campuses but it seems to me that Ann Arbor has very few bars for having one of the largest schools in the country. I went to Kansas State earlier this year for a football game and I'd estimate they have maybe 3X as many bars in Aggieville (their bar scene) as AA. And that school has about half as many students as UM. Is space just such a premium in AA?
February 9th, 2010 at 2:12 PM ^
1) Let me get this straight, bars at K-State are located in "Aggieville"? This is NOT Texas A&M, right?
2) I can't tell you about rents in areas you would want a bar. But I can tell you that property tax in Ann Arbor is crazy high. That is the reasoning behind why apartment/housing rents are so freaking high for such crappy living.
3) I'd wager a few thousand that there are a lot more social drinkers at KState than there are at UofM. Look to the person to your right in your Engin class. Now to your left. Have you ever seen them at Rick's?
February 9th, 2010 at 2:20 PM ^
1) Yes, Aggieville is the name of the bar scene at K-State. It's an agricultural school, I guess. Doesn't make much sense to me, either.
3) Yes, maybe on average Michigan students party a lighter than some schools, but when I was in AA it seemed every South U bar on Friday/Saturday was packed wall-to-wall. AA could open a couple more good bars and business would still boom for them.
February 9th, 2010 at 2:13 PM ^
Rent is ridiculous. And a limited amount of liquor licenses. But if Kansas State has that many bars, every other storefront must be a bar.
South U has/had Mitch's, Touchdown/BL, Rick's, Charleys/?, Brown Jug kinda...
State has Redhawk, Ashley's, BW3's
Centrally there's Scorekeepers, Bar Louie
Main area has a couple of microbrews, Connor O'Neils, Full Moon, etc, etc, etc...tons of little door bars/clubs.
And then you have the club/bar scene west of Main....
How many DO they have in Kansas? ;-)
February 9th, 2010 at 2:25 PM ^
In Aggieville not only is every other storefront a bar, every storefront is. It was pretty crazy to see so many bars adjacent to one another. And a good buddy of mine says that KU has way more than K-State.
Obviously both these schools suck ass compared to Michigan, but I was just curious about why they have so many more bars.
February 9th, 2010 at 2:26 PM ^
Enforcement is a key issue as well. For example, in Iowa they have 20 bars in their downtown area, many around the size of Charlies. Students there get into bars at age 19, but supposedly can't drink until 21.
Ann Arbor could do with many more bars if all of them were as tolerant as Skeeps.
February 9th, 2010 at 2:14 PM ^
Until recently, Ann Arbor had a fixed amount of liquor licenses. Most of the licenses were owned by restaurants, and any new bar would have to purchase the liquor license from a bar/restaurant that was closing permanently. They just recently decided to issue 70(or so) new licenses, so there should be more new bars opening up in the future.
February 9th, 2010 at 2:12 PM ^
We've had a somewhat similar argument before with opening a restaurant. The idea place would be S. State at Packard. You have the two drunken food places already next to you, you have near unlimited foot traffic before and after games, you are close enough to campus while still servicing many of the residential areas around the area, you also have easy access to S. University bars by short walk, and Packard gives you a direct walking route to the Main Street bars. In other words you'd be close enough to other bars so people can bar hop while still dominating a south part of State Street that has no other bars that close to you.
February 9th, 2010 at 2:14 PM ^
If the Packard Pub fails, the management should be shot.
February 9th, 2010 at 2:43 PM ^
I'm not sure the Packard Pub location is a slam dunk success. There's a lot of foot traffic in that area, but it's overwhelmingly from undergraduates, three-forths of who can't drink legally and most of whom go away in the summer. It's in a great position to profit from game-day foot traffic for football and hockey, but it won't benefit from the Art Fairs very much. I've heard that Art Fair makes the difference between profit and loss for a lot of downtown businesses, including restaurants. Most importantly, there's no parking nearby. A bar can be really profitable by attracting non-students who have more money to spend. But non-students go to places where they can easily park nearby.
In short, I wonder whether the lack of parking won't offset the advantages from foot traffic. I wonder whether a bar can succeed primarily on customer base comprised of students. I'm not saying it can't be a success, but I don't think it's a sure thing.
I've lived in Ann Arbor for 25 years and there's never been a bar there in all that time. All of the advantages of that location have been present the whole time. Notwithstandnig the scarcity of liquor licenses, there might be a reason why no-one has tried to open a bar there before.
February 9th, 2010 at 4:19 PM ^
But most bars in Ann Arbor aren't doing that much business from outlying traffic. Most of the older crowds live or work around the city. Not that many drive in and pay for parking when they can go to a town bar with it's own free lot around town. Either you're close or you're in town for the game or some other reason. Parking on Main isn't great, but they support a lot of bars. I don't think South U on a Friday night is filled with a lot of older crowds even though there's parking. It might be a more legit concern elsewhere, where no parking can cut down on foot traffic on game day (like it did at South U when that was under reconstruction), but that problem doesn't exist in the Athletic Csmpus area, because that's where they squeeze them in.
And Art Fair is overrated. I've known/know restaurant and bar owners on South U, and it doesn't help as much as you'd think with all the food vendors around. Mainly people want to use the bathroom. That's why the South U association kicked out the Original Art Fair for their own, so they can take the profits directly. It's no football Saturday.
Ann Arbor has all these bars because of college kids. If it wasn't for them, and the foot traffic, the per capita would be a lot more like other "normal" cities. There's a reason the bars don't cater to an older crowd.
February 9th, 2010 at 3:03 PM ^
Not a bar, but close location that serves liquor and has four beers on tap. I had a few drinks before a hockey game there. Burgers are great and they have several plasma tvs, outdoor seating w/ tvs and a downstairs with more room. I was shocked when I wandered in there for the first time a couple months ago.
That being said, its not a place people would go to drink on a Friday or Saturday.
I live down Packard now as an adult and lived on Packard my senior year. I love the idea of the Packard Pub. Wish it would just open up already.
February 9th, 2010 at 3:18 PM ^
I left AA the year Quickie Burger opened, before they got their liquor license. That would have been amazing.
February 9th, 2010 at 2:22 PM ^
There needs to be one near the hospital ... like some cottage place out in the Arb ---- German-style bierhaus in the winter, warm up with a bock by the fire after hiking out in the woods. In the summer: tiki bar with live reggae and a Jimmy Buffet cover band. Hey a guy can dream, right?
Also, there is a vacant lot across from Angelo's. Why not a night club catering the med students?
February 9th, 2010 at 2:24 PM ^
The Ronald McDonald House would be the perfect place. Just one problem...
February 9th, 2010 at 2:26 PM ^
I figured BW3's had pretty much put something as close as possible to that area...
February 9th, 2010 at 3:04 PM ^
Best idea of the thread. I was thinking something similar.
February 9th, 2010 at 2:29 PM ^
Good suggestions guys but the ideal student bar location would be exactly where Sgt. Peppers is right now. Sgt. Peppers already gets a disgusting amount of business purely because of their location. Anyone who has gone there knows it aint nothing special but the location is perfect. There would be no need to even leave the neighborhood if a bar was located there.
Umm, actually disregard this. I'm going to look into the property costs and/or rent right now...
February 9th, 2010 at 2:33 PM ^
Now the Packard/State place is pretty good competition in that area. And you do have the additional problem that while there are a lot of students, real people live down there too, and they might not be super keen on a bar next door.
February 9th, 2010 at 4:36 PM ^
While necessary, I love that you do not include students in your definition of "real people".
February 9th, 2010 at 4:54 PM ^
And I wasn't "real people".
Hell, I wish my life was still so "unreal".
Old people tell you many things, but the one that isn't B.S. is the "those are the best days of your life...".
February 9th, 2010 at 2:46 PM ^
Everywhere would be a good start.
February 9th, 2010 at 3:06 PM ^
As long as I can walk (stumble?) home from it, I'm good.
February 9th, 2010 at 3:56 PM ^
how about that old factory building on South Main just north of Madison? I bet that would make for a great bar. You could even brew your own beer there and have big long tables.