OT - Anyone familiar with Knoxville? I've been offered a job there.
Just as the title says, I have been offered a job with the company I work for but it requires a relocation to Knoxville, Tennessee. Outside of a couple of years living in Fort Wayne, Indiana I have never lived outside of the West Michigan area.
The job does offer a different role and some more money but I don't know anything about the area to know if it's even worth it. What are your thoughts on Knoxville for relocation of a family of 4 with a 6 & 4 year old?
Thanks for your information!
Need to know your age and marital/kid status before giving a proper answer.
Edit: I didn't see you family status at first. I have no advice.
Looks like VolunteerDevotee's bedroom.
I wonder if VD grinds about 3 PM kickoffs?
Below are some old guy thoughts. These are more general things to consider rather than anything specific about Knoxville.
Have you thought about your medium- and long-term career objectives...rather than just the immediate move to Knoxville?
Do you want to grow within your current company? Do you see yourself staying with this company for most/all of your career?
Do you and your wife have strong roots in West Michigan? Friends and family? Do you see yourself moving back to West Michigan eventually?
How well do you and your family adapt to change? Do you think you'll enjoy living in what is likely to be a different "culture" than that to which you're accustomed?
Most importantly, are you really prepared to live that far from Ann Arbor?!?
Good luck!
All great questions. As someone that, like the OP, has children age 6 and 4, I would say the absolute most important question is about roots in West MI, ie do you have close family in West MI and do they help much with the kids and if so, do you want to move away from that support and those bonds?
I've been to Knoxville and it's a great college town.
I also don't live super close to any of my or my wife's family and it makes raising kids a lot harder and it's tough that they don't see family all that often.
If moving to Knoxville means moving away from a family that you are close with and that helps with the kids, OP should probably really prefer Knoxville to West MI.
I raised my kids away from family. Career military. We made our own family. It doesn't always have to be blood relations to be family. My two cents. And when they did see their cousins and grandparents it was meaningful time spent together.
This is true and is largely the same boat I'm in - no family on either side close by. But it's so very different from raising kids around/among family that helps, and then moving away. Every time I visit my family I see them leave a kid with an aunt and just run off to the store. Or take off for a day with an easy, free, babysitter. And nobody thinks twice about any of it. Contrast that with my situation - no help, no days off from the kid, no separation from the kid (or the kid from us), and utterly unfamiliar family from the kids POV.
You can't blindly say 'it can be done'. When you're used to having that support, the sudden lack of it will become debilitating until you can figure out how to deal with it.
Its a nice area, Gatlinburg and the mountains are close by, within a days drive of the ocean and a short drive to Nashville, Chattanooga and even Atlanta or Charlotte. No state income tax is also nice. That said lots of SEC and Volunteer fans, but its not all bad. I live in SEC land as well and I've really had less trash talk here than I did in Ohio. Before deciding make a trip down and check it out first, housing can be hard to come by as well but thats an issue everywhere (my daughter lives near Chatt and they are having a hard time finding a house to buy).
I only know that it's a total pain in the ass to drive through where 75 and 40 converge. Oh and I don't like the Volunteers. So based on that narrow criteria, I vote no.
My wife is from Tallahassee and since moving back to the U.S. a few years ago, we drive from Ann Arbor to Tallahassee a couple of times per year and Knoxville is the halfway point so we often overnight there. She also has a close friend who has lives in Knoxville.
Knoxville is a very cool little town - I really like it. There is a small but vibrant restaurant / bar district downtown where in the early evening lots of people are sitting outside and kids are playing. Later in the night, turns into more adult nightlife. Also, a nice little art and historical district downtown - tons of people walking around on the weekends.
Lots of nature, history and places to walk and the University area is very pedestrian friendly. Weather is very mild in the winter / hot in the summer. There are a lot of national parks and historical sites (lots of civil war era sites) within a few hours drive.
Housing prices / cost of living is reasonable if not cheap. Tennessee used to be really affordable but has gotten pricier over the last decade with baby boomer retirees moving there.
"My wife is from Tallahassee and since moving back to the U.S. a few years ago, ..."
I totally understood your point, and am not at all making any kind of critique.
It just struck me funny as I skimmed that first line that you were making a joke about Tallahassee not really being the U.S.
Ha! I would make a joke about Tallahassee but every person I have met down there has been incredibly nice and welcoming of me from the first time I went 20 + years ago.
My sister moved to Knoxville a decade ago. Have other friends there also. It does not fit the stereotype of 'southern cities' held by most northerners. I found it to be friendly, modern, and what you expect from a city with a major university. Driving if there was a hint of snow is not recommended, but by and large highly positive thoughts.
My sister would not move back without some seriously compelling reasons. We grew up in West Michigan. My nephews a little older and are thriving with so many close connections within the community.
None of the cities in the south fit what most (young?) people in the north seem to think about southern cities. Nashville barely even has an accent, given no one is actually from Nashville that lives there.
After living the best part of the last 12 years in various places the south, I'd never move back without a real compelling reason. Although I really want a condo in Charlevoix or nearby to do summers when I retire.
$250K will get you a very nice house with a huge yard to maintain.
$25 will get your fam ample and good BBQ for dinner.
If you don't immediately decorate your house with 2 to 5 Trump signs you will be dead within a week.
The Trump sign comment is silly. My wife's friend lives in a nice neighborhood in Knoxville and I haven't seen any political signs for either party in their neighborhood when we have gone to visit.
I don't doubt you would see that stuff in some areas of town or when you get further outside the city. To be fair, my parents live in Macomb County and you see people with politics signs in the yards or on flags all year around even there.
"...I haven't seen any political signs for either party in their neighborhood..."
Specifics are specific. LOL!!
So I'm not trying to be political, but our country is pretty evenly split between the parties. Heavily dominate blue states are only 60% blue. Dominant red states are only 60% red. I'm guessing that with Knoxville having a big college that it is more liberal than Western Michigan.
This is a great point. California is one of the most heavily democratic states and yet has more GOP voters than any state other than Texas.
Single party rule is never healthy.
This is sadly true in TN. Our congressman refuses to even debate in the general elections because he knows he does not have to. It is really disappointing.
Advertisers and extremists want nothing to do with those "60%" ideas. :)
Yup!!! Neither does social media...
Your last sentence is spot on in the context of this post.
Out of curiosity, I looked it up on NYT's detailed map of the 2020 election and Biden won all the precincts in what appears to be "downtown" Knoxville/Knoxville proper, many of them by huge margins. Politically, it appears far closer to Ann Arbor (not too surprising) than anywhere in West MI save for GR of course. Difference with Ann Arbor is that immediately outside of Knoxville, it's conservative whereas much of Washtenaw county is liberal even outside of Ann Arbor city limits.
And to the rest of your comment, it's interesting that we talk about blue states and red states because the divide is very much along urban and rural lines so I don't think there are any states that don't have both heavily red and heavily blue areas. And then to your point, in aggregate states aren't usually more than 60% one way or the other.
States themselves are only blue or red as a result of the ratio of urban population to rural (low ratio = red, high = blue, evenish = purple). But within any given state, politics will differ dramatically and predictably between its urban and rural areas. And then most modern suburbs tend to have a relatively even mix on a local level.
Smart comment. This "red state, blue state" stuff is kind of a self-reinforcing fiction. And things vary so much within states. Hell, all of rural California is red, and geographically, that's most of the state. I live in Tallahassee, in one of the two bluest voting districts in the state (the other is the next one over), but North Florida is strongly Republican, generally. I know there is hatred out there, but most of it does not emanate from poor schmucks like me who agonize over our vote and try to get by day to day. When somebody offers some real alternatives, we'll all desert these sad corporate albatrosses in a heartbeat.
I live in Winston Salem, NC. Been to Knoxville tons of times. I would live there in a heartbeat.
Awesome downtown area. Tons of cool restaurants and bars. Beautiful outdoor activities. Hiking, river activities, etc. ZERO state income tax in TN. Affordable housing. Man, unless you can’t stand living in a “Red State”, I think it’s a great place to live.
Also, GREAT place to raise a family.
What a crazy world we live in where how a state votes in presidential elections is a factor as to whether someone would live there. I could see how a local culture would be a factor but state level electoral politics is crazy to me.
Somebody saying "I wouldn't live in x state because the state voted for x candidate in the last election" would have gotten you thrown in the insane asylum 20 years ago and now this is how many people think. I have an aunt who says stuff like that.
I hope we can get back to how it used to be.
I mean I don’t think it’s that crazy. Which way a state voted in a presidential election is not important but I can understand why someone might want to look at a state government’s current political makeup and how likely that is to change in the near term. To make this as least political as possible: the likelihood of a state government allowing or banning abortion might be very important to some people right now
It's a legitimate concern insofar as red state vs. blue state serves as a proxy for distinct cultural and increasingly legal rights environment. That said, when you're talking about metropolitan areas and towns like Knoxville which are heavily influenced by a university presence, you have to consider the extent to which local government/culture is different than what you might expect in the rest of the state.
But as the states drift/charge into separate camps with dramatically different laws, it makes sense to consider it when you're moving.
What you guys are saying makes sense.
However, I am going to keep pushing back personally and privately against this whole "red" vs. "blue" virus infecting the country even if it is a lost cause.
Why? Maybe it's because I've always had a weakness for lost causes, once they're really lost.
Lost cause mythology is definitely a thing down south anyways.
Yeah, that was a Rhett Butler quote from Gone with the Wind :)
Totally agree man, even though I’m the one that brought it up. LOL. I could care less if I live in a Blue or Red state or city. We do need to realize we have more in common than different.
I'm not sure if the area is red or blue, but I do know the Mayor is a Big Red Machine.......
dreaded double post... so I will add a little snippet about Julius Caesar since I have already taken up this space:
Gaius Julius Caesar (Latin: [ˈɡaːiʊs ˈjuːliʊs ˈkae̯sar]; 12 July 100 BC – 15 March 44 BC) was a Roman general and statesman. A member of the First Triumvirate, Caesar led the Roman armies in the Gallic Wars before defeating his political rival Pompey in a civil war, and subsequently became dictator of Rome from 49 BC until his assassination in 44 BC. He played a critical role in the events that led to the demise of the Roman Republic and the rise of the Roman Empire.
Pizza, pizza.
He was also an excellent field general, an observation I make after having had to translate every line of his Commentaries.
Did we just cross the Rubicon!?
It's not so much about how they voted in presidential elections, but if you're pro-choice and/or intend to raise your daughter(s) that way, most of the South, including Tennessee, may not be desirable.
That is not an exaggeration.
I’ve lived in the South for 30 years…that is an exaggeration.
The picture on the ground is pretty clear (and it's even become more extreme in a few places since this article roughly 6 weeks ago):
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/a-guide-to-abortion-laws-by-state
Florida is 60-40 pro choice, but soon that advice will extend to the entire nation. Michigan could revert to some awful 1930s law. Dismal prospect.
I think state taxes are highly relevant to where someone desires to live and those are usually impacted by a states politics. So yeah, I don't think you'd say, oh, I'd like to live here because it's a red state, I think you'd say, oh, I'd like to live here because it has no state income taxes (because it's a red state).
There are other state-level policies that might impact someone's decision on where to live.
Sure, taxes and other laws are legit reasons to pick a place to live. However, people certainly do say things like "I don't want to live in a blue / red state".
Even in my family, we have that craziness. My uncle's wife wouldn't take my uncle to the hospital when he had covid back in January because she said that she wouldn't go to a "blue hospital". I honestly had no idea what that meant... I wish I had never found out.
My uncle finally ended up in the ER after collapsing from lack of oxygen and died a few days later. It has caused a lot of anger and drama in the family. Even my two cousins (the sons) aren't talking to each other because one agrees with his mom and his brother is with the rest of us. Terrible situation.
It's astonishing to me that, even though your uncle died, there are still people in your family who agree with whatever it is your uncle's wife believed...even though those beliefs appeared to have at least contributed to your uncle's death.
If you want an eyeful of crazy, check out SorryAntiVaxxer.com.
Sorry for your loss.
Yeah, that's really unfortunate and I'm sorry for your loss. Totally agree that "red" or "blue" mean absolutely nothing when applied to something as broadly as an entire state (all of which have lots of diverse political pockets), or heaven forbid a place as apolitical as a hospital.
Thank you 1989 Grad and True Blue.
yeah, I am familiar with that website and some others. I hope we are finally at the end of this scourge.
If you are left leaning you will typically find a lot of like minded left-leaners in most college towns such as Knoxville, even in deep red states. I live in Durham, NC and the Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill area is pretty heavily blue. But you don't have to travel far outside city limits to see confederate flags and such.