OT - Another reason to hate Ohio (The State) - Insane dog attack laws
Needless to say I am furious so please excuse any grammar and spelling errors. I will not get into anything about the dog's owner due to the civil suit we will be filing, but I never would have guessed how little recourse a victim has when it comes to being attacked by a vicious dog in this state.
I live in a village about 1 hour East of Cincinnati. Last Thursday night around midnight I took my 35lb lab mix dog out before bed. A neighborhood pitbull that weighs over 90lbs and frequently runs loose in the neighborhood charged to attack me in my yard with my dog on a leash.
My dog, which is 1/3 of this dog's size jumped between me and the attacking dog and ended up being badly mauled. We are only hopeful that she will get full use of her leg back.
The attacking dog hit my dog with such force that he drove her into my chest and knocked me to the ground and was tearing her apart on top of me. I was finally able to get out from under the fight, but was unable to separate the dogs until the neighbor heard me screaming and came to pull the dog off.
When all was said and done and my dog had received reconstructive surgery on her leg, I tried to file a police report. I was referred to the dog warden. The owner was cited and issued a fine, but according to state law the since the dog did not kill my dog and did not get ahold of a person the dog cannot be confiscated, can not be put down and won't even be added to the vicious dog list.
If a person had come onto my property, tried to attack me, and my dog was injured in the process, the attacker would be arrested, jailed, tried and incarcerated. Why in the hell is there no resources for a vicious dog?
I know many of you on this board live in Ohio. If you do I hope you will take a few minutes to contact your state rep and demand that the laws be revised. It's only a matter of time before this dog gets loose again and kills a dog, or heaven forbid, a child. This dog could very well kill an adult male.
October 5th, 2022 at 10:15 AM ^
Sorry about this experience. Not sure how long this thread will stay up here, but I am not a fan of pit bulls at all.
Hope the recovery goes well.
October 5th, 2022 at 10:19 AM ^
I am not a fan of shitty dog owners, which is the real problem here, not the dog breed.
EDIT: leaving some actual peer reviewed studies here for all the doubters and folks with anecdotal evidence:
- Pitbull-type dogs are regularly misidentified (people assume they're some sort of pit when they're really not)
- There is no difference between dog bites between "dangerous" breeds (German Shepherds, Rottweilers, Pitbull-types) and other breeds of similar sizes and strengths not stereotyped as "dangerous" (Boxers, Labs, and Bulldogs)
- A dog's overall size is the primary significant factor that affects its bite force, not breed
- Irresponsible ownership is the primary cause of dog bite-related fatalities and breed is not a factor, additionally media reports are a poor source for statistics as breed identification discrepancies between the media and animal control
- There are no significant differences in aggression between legislated breed groups (including pitbull-types) and the Golden Retriever control group
October 5th, 2022 at 10:27 AM ^
Shitty dog owners are the problem, but when a mistake is made with a pitbull it can result in a dead person or pet. Good owner or not, mistakes happen and pets get spooked for unknown reasons..
October 5th, 2022 at 10:37 AM ^
Not here to proselytize and the other comments about breed-specific profiling stereotypes are dead on. But just to clarify, a mistake with a pit is no different than a mistake with a rottie, or a dobie, or a GSD, or a 20 lb beagle. All can end fatal.
But absolutely your initial point is right. Shitty dog owners are the problem, full stop.
There are tons of reasons why people bring a pet into their home. It just seems that the venn diagram/cross section of those people who are bad pet owners also choosing specific breed types seems to be higher. It's not entirely coincidental, and largely has to do with people's motivations for getting a pet ("guard dog" etc).
Before there were pits there were rotties. Before rotties it was dobermans. Before dobies it was germans. And so on. Ultimately though it's not the dogs as groups or breeds, it's poorly-owned individual pets. Sadly, it seems.there will seemingly always be a mis-characterized "feared" breed.
October 5th, 2022 at 10:52 AM ^
Definitely agree that any large strong aggressive "guard dog" can have the same result. It's not just pit bulls. I have nothing against the breed. I played in a bark nation golf outing on Saturday that rescues pit bulls. I still wouldn't want one next door when my 2 year old is outside. I don't know enough about my neighbors to know if they are good or bad owners.
October 5th, 2022 at 11:00 AM ^
You shouldn't allow your 2 year old out near ANY dog. Toddlers don't know that dogs - all dogs - can react aggressively to an ill-place finger to the eye or tug of the ear.
October 5th, 2022 at 11:09 AM ^
Good point. You definitely need to be careful around any dog. My 80lb golden could do damage by stepping on a baby.
October 5th, 2022 at 2:31 PM ^
Unsupervised children and unsupervised dogs are both a threat, whether separately or together.
An aggressive chop block by our labrador tore my ACL at a family picnic - Pico's mass and excellent pad level would have been devastating if she had rammed a toddler instead.
October 5th, 2022 at 3:14 PM ^
But who hit you high to complete the chop block? Sounds like the golden was conspiring against you.
October 5th, 2022 at 11:10 AM ^
This. My cousin had to have reconstructie surgery on his nose from a lap dog miniature schnauzer when he was little because he was blowing in the dogs face.
Any dog can cause harm.
October 5th, 2022 at 12:51 PM ^
My 16-year-old chihuahua bites the shit out of my 4-year-old son all the time. Thankfully, the dog has no teeth left so it typically only inflicts psychological damage on the child.
Any dog can cause harm.
October 5th, 2022 at 1:24 PM ^
Little dogs tend to be high energy and high strung. More bites happen from small dog breeds than large dog breeds. People don't realize this.
October 5th, 2022 at 8:05 PM ^
This. I've been bitten 2 times in my 9 years visiting a patient in their home.
Both times by a chihuahua.
October 5th, 2022 at 11:58 AM ^
Yeah, I remember the late 80s/early 90s and the big, scary breed was Dobermans. Shitty people get a dog that makes them feel special and then don't train it properly.
And yeah, the worst dog by far I ever saw was a black lab that would charge the gate at a dog run and try to corner every dog that came in. The owner was absolutely oblivious and only after multiple people threatened to kick the shit out of him and his dog did he get the hint and take the dog out. So it's rarely the breed but the specific circumstance around the dog.
October 5th, 2022 at 12:07 PM ^
PitBulls are nasty dogs…been bit twice in my life both by pit bulls.
October 5th, 2022 at 2:28 PM ^
Absolutely disagree.
You hear about German Shepherds or Dobies biting people, but rarely mauling them. When there is a human fatality, it is usually a pit Bull or a rottie.
To be precise, between 2005-2017, 65% of fatal attacks were by pit bulls or pit mixes. Rotties came in 2nd with 10%. Surprisingly, beagles didn’t make the list. See: www.dogsbite.org
Of course there are bad owners. There are also cases in which a PB with no prior issues turns on its owners - or on their kids. Then everyone expresses shock - “He’s never been like that!!”
As to OP’s frustration, I think owners should be legally responsible for whatever their dogs do, including manslaughter in the event of a human fatality. Maybe then people might think twice about having a potentially dangerous breed in their home.
October 5th, 2022 at 4:50 PM ^
dogsbite.org is basically Infowars for people who dislike Pitbulls. Here's a survey of studies by the AVMA that refutes most of what that site relies on and instead points out that it mostly comes down to owners and training.
October 5th, 2022 at 12:26 PM ^
I agree with this. The issue is more nuanced than shitty owner vs dangerous dog breed. It’s really a combination. A shitty owner of a shitszu isn’t going to put the community at serious risk of life threatening injuries.
The consequence of poor dog socialization differs between breeds and to say pit bulls aren’t part of the problem is naive. From wiki, “Independent organizations have published statistics based on hospital records showing pit bulls are responsible for more than half of dog bite incidents among all breeds despite comprising 6% of pet dogs”.
October 5th, 2022 at 12:53 PM ^
Hmm, which of these two things could we control via policy....
October 5th, 2022 at 11:09 AM ^
100% agree with this, as the owner of a 135Lbs Bullmastiff Maizy (also get a bad rap) if they are trained and you’re a smart dog owner there will be no issues. Bullmastiff’s were literally bred to take down poachers. She is always on high alert when the kids are outside with her, she will stand between any of her family and anyone else. I would trust her to intervene if she had to, but if I tell her to ease she relaxes and will take hugs from small kids, and smooch anyone.
it’s never the breed, it’s always the owner and how they are raised.
Edit: she is always leashed, and no she was never left alone with our kids when they were little mostly because she thinks she’s a lap dog and would sit on them.
October 5th, 2022 at 2:41 PM ^
To add some nuance as a repeat owner of many very weird large breed rescues and as someone who grew up in a family of AKC obedience trainers: I've never encountered a dog who had aggression issues that were not caused by a human - either negligent training or straight up abuse. It's also worth remembering that these issues may have preceded the current owner (we have two of these now). In these cases we know our dogs behavior and triggers inside and out and know which ones are appropriate for which situations, and what we need to avoid. Even with that, we have people that will quickly approach one of our dogs in training in a manner that might be triggering. I'm not sorry if I hurt their feelings and yell at them to stop, stay back, and give us room.
October 5th, 2022 at 12:28 PM ^
Interesting that a post blaming the dog owner rather than the breed gets 50 upvotes. I am sure a post blaming the gun owner and not the gun would get 50 downvotes.
FTR, I am a strong proponent of gun control measures.
October 5th, 2022 at 12:40 PM ^
surely you understand the difference in the two situations.
October 5th, 2022 at 12:50 PM ^
i think it's pretty clear he doesn't
October 5th, 2022 at 1:14 PM ^
What's the difference?
An irresponsible person buys a dog that has the potential to maim or kill . He lets that thing he owns leave his possession and it maims or kills.
An irresponsible person buys a gun that has obvious potential to maim or kill. He lets that thing he owns to leave his possession and it is used to maim or kill.
Certainly I blame the person but as we will always have idiots around we need to keep them from having guns ... or pitt bulls.
October 5th, 2022 at 1:52 PM ^
Statistics show Pit Bulls attack often and are the most deadly dog in America (it’s not even close)…….not sure why people love to talk about bad owners when there is clearly a problem with the breed.
October 5th, 2022 at 8:12 PM ^
Some of the nicest dogs I’ve come across are pit bulls but they had great owners. Ugly dogs though. I have a beagle and anyone not in the family gets the teeth shown. Little guy bit me once and tore my hand up. Beagles can be viscous.
October 5th, 2022 at 1:45 PM ^
Amen to that!
October 5th, 2022 at 1:49 PM ^
Except Chihuahuas
October 5th, 2022 at 2:51 PM ^
People always blame shitty dog owners on pitbulls but I call bullshit.
In college I took care of a pit bull and it was the nicest dog, friendly around other dogs then randomly it just attacked a neighbors dog out of nowhere as well as another small dog in an apartment complex.
I've known several other friends that are great owners that have owned pits as well and they have all had major issues with them attacking other animals or pets
October 5th, 2022 at 9:20 PM ^
More great research from the University of Turner and Hooch
October 5th, 2022 at 10:23 AM ^
Pit bulls are perfectly fine. There are several studies showing that they are no more aggressive than other "family-friendly" breeds. The issue is that dipshits like OP's neighbor tend to gravitate to them, and they're frequently in social situations that mess them up.
October 5th, 2022 at 10:30 AM ^
This is right. Pit bulls are awesome dogs, that get a horrible reputation because POS owners that train them for aggession.
October 5th, 2022 at 10:37 AM ^
Full disclosure, I own a pit mix. I agree with what you're saying, but with one caveat - when a pit decides to attack someone/something, the damage will be FAR worse than if most other breeds decided to attack.
I do fully believe that pit temperaments are comparable to or even better than a lot of other breeds. But the problem is that they are very powerful dogs and everyone who owns one or is around them should be cognizant of that.
October 5th, 2022 at 11:07 AM ^
I also have a pit/hound mix. She is super sweet. She is also very strong, and does like to hunt. I have seen her rip through some groundhogs. I have had lots of dogs over the years and the best gift you can give them in my opinion is socializing them as soon as possible regardless of bred. Usually when you see a "bad dog" (not my favorite term) they have an owner that likes the idea of having a dog (and the joy that comes with that) but not the responsibility of having a dog. Properly raising and owning dogs has given me some of my greatest joys in life.
Completely agree you have to be aware of your dog and their strengths and their triggers. My dog does not like to share toys, so when other dogs come over toys go up. That is just one example of knowing your dog. People that want them as some weird status symbol but don't want to put in the work need to get a cat.
October 5th, 2022 at 12:02 PM ^
Yeah, a lot of it is reading the situation and acting appropriately. Our dog is 14 and great in most situations but since she was young she always got into fights (mostly just barking but sometimes a little more) with unspayed females. Just how it went, so if we saw her start getting her hackles up with a new dog we generally asked/figured out something was up and took her away. It's not her fault - she's a dog and she has her issues, like every other creature on the planet. But being a good owner is knowing that an mitigating issues before they flare up.
October 5th, 2022 at 1:41 PM ^
Thank you for addressing the core issue. Yes, any dog can attack, but not every dog can inflict the same damage.
The reason pit bulls were(are) so commonly trained for dog fighting is their physical characteristics.
While I also believe different dog breeds are more prone to aggressive behavior, I also agree this is where the responsibility falls on the owner.
October 5th, 2022 at 10:37 AM ^
Literally the sweetest dog I have ever known is a pity. The problem is they seem more likely to have crap owners.
October 5th, 2022 at 10:41 AM ^
Says every pitty owner right before it attacks.
October 5th, 2022 at 11:26 AM ^
says every *dog* owner before it attacks. ftfy
October 5th, 2022 at 1:40 PM ^
If i had a nickel for every story I've heard of golden retrievers viciously mauling people and pets.... There are dogs that have been bred to bite, to attack, and to kill, and there are breeds that are bred to herd or fetch. It's the owner, and it's the breed. It's both.
October 5th, 2022 at 2:39 PM ^
Goldens do NOT figure prominently in national dog bite statistics. Pit Bulls do. The numbers are what they are
October 5th, 2022 at 5:10 PM ^
Not to mention that the retriever breeds have been bred to have a soft mouth, so as not to damage the birds they retrieve…
October 5th, 2022 at 1:29 PM ^
I have had two pit mixes in my life and my second is getting up there in years. My wife feels this need to adopt every poor pitbull on the planet but I think she has moved on from that. Both of our pitbulls were the last dog on earth to ever hurt a human (its been almost two full dog lifetimes of proof) they are very sweet to humans and loving and never broke character on that. Our 10 year old son grew up with both of them and they were better around him than any breed ive ever seen around kids.
When it comes to being around other dogs we keep them fenced or on leash 100% of the time because they are not dog friendly. Going forward we wont be getting pitbulls as it takes a special kind of owner and attention to raise them properly. These dogs have a extremely high prey drive and even the best owners still have to be aware of that. The breed was created to do maximum damage and they are still being bred like that. Its bad owners now and bad breeders over several generations of breeding as well.
October 5th, 2022 at 12:57 PM ^
My dog is a pit mix. Super friendly, amazing around every kid he's been around, and never had any issues with anybody who comes over.
That said, I'd never take him out without a leash (we don't have a yard). It's for his own protection (running in the road) and for the comfort of all of my neighbors. Plus, you really never know what might happen. Most neighbors know he's a nice dog, but I know the stigma exists. Why would I do anything to make them uncomfortable?
A couple neighbors I know take their dog out without a leash. I know their dog is awesome. I still hate it. I can tell it makes my dog uncomfortable to see an unleashed dog when he's on a leash.
October 5th, 2022 at 1:51 PM ^
This. Some great owners and wonderful dogs. Also a culture of people buying these dogs with dubious intentions, and then creating horrible versions through abusive rearing.
October 5th, 2022 at 10:50 AM ^
I do want to emphasize that I am not in favor of breed bans. Since this attack I have learned that in Ohio there are more cities, towns and villages with breed bans. My theory is that this is due to the lack of options for the cities to do anything about them based on the insane state laws.
Couple that with young people who gravitate to these powerful dogs because they look tough and cool and portray an image of toughness that they hope to show. The young people who gravitate toward these dogs usually have never owned or trained a dog before and would have difficulty teaching a yorkie proper behavior.
Based on how difficult it is in Ohio to even get a dog added to the vicious dog list the communities have no other choice than to ban a breed if they want to be pro-active against future attacks. This is purely speculation but it makes sense to me now.
I am speaking at my village council meeting next week and have a councilmen friend who is going to pass a motion to review the current village dog laws. At a minimum I am hoping that they will look into the legality of requiring liability insurance based on either breed or size. My hope is that they can find a loophole and pass an ordinance that says once a dog attacks a person or pet that the dog will not be permitted to be kept in the village based on the outcome of an investigation.
In the meantime I am pricing 6' privacy fences and I am no longer procrastinating about buying cameras for my property.
October 5th, 2022 at 2:44 PM ^
6’ should do it. I was walking a standard poodle a month ago, and a pit mix defeated a 4’ fence and attacked her. Fortunately she survived, however I did learn that a taller fence is better
October 5th, 2022 at 1:45 PM ^
Yeah interestingly, just this morning I went for a walk on my country farm and my pit bull and Mastiff ran up toward the fence at the barking dogs of the neighbor. Once I got involved in the situation, I saw my pitbull and Mastiff licking the neighbor's Yorkie through the fence. The one who wasn't listening was of course my Mastiff. The only dog that remained aggressive once I was present was the neighbor's golden retriever mix. I didn't feel threatened by him. He was just being a dog. But still he was the only one that kind of didn't calm down so to speak. My Mastiff is hardheaded but a sweetheart. A little territorial.
October 5th, 2022 at 4:06 PM ^
So in summary, a higher number of "Shitty People" own Pits therefore giving the dogs their poor reputation?