Nico Collins Interview - no talent gap vs OSU
Nico states there is no talent gap with OSU. While clearly incorrect, is this a shot a the coaching staff of just a throwaway statement during an interview?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/saturdaytradition.com/michigan-football/former-wolverines-wr-nico-collins-says-michigan-has-equal-or-more-talent-than-ohio-state/amp/
Ah, false dichotomy - how I have missed thee.
Actually it was a question/ interrogative statement. It doesn’t say there are only two options, it’s asking for opinions on the two options. No need to be pedantic.
You’re a pedantic
You implied there were two ways to interpret Collins’s statement. That’s a false dichotomy.
The physphonomy is clearly degrorious.
as long as the synergy is palpable
That's hilarious.
I'm going to use those without your permission.
March 25th, 2021 at 12:15 PM ^
Not sure if I felt more like an idiot after I read your comment or after I tried looking up the words, well played Lakeyale13 ?
He's trying to push up his draft stock. Not much else to read into it.
You're the one who introduced the false dichotomy by suggesting the only two options are "shot at coaching staff" and "just a throwaway statement". You assume *WAY* too much there.
Ohio troll. Do not feed.
March 25th, 2021 at 12:43 AM ^
Can we move past Nico Collins please?
High potential. Didn't do much here sadly. Not necessarily his fault but comparing everyone to Nico is absurd. He could be a solid NFL player but if he says no talent gap, he trippin'.
Nico also said Harbaugh was an excellent coach.
EDIT: This was not meant as tongue-in-cheek or any kind of jab, rather a statement of fact.
March 25th, 2021 at 12:32 PM ^
Yup. Harbaugh is a great coach and no talent gap. Actions speak louder than words though, Nico. We know why you opted out and don’t blame you one bit, but don’t think you’re fooling us with all of this smoke. The best players on the best teams still played in 2020 and it wasn’t by accident.
Is "Dustin Schutte" the only writer for the entire Saturday Tradition website is it just a generic screen name for their generic writers?
I clicked on over a dozen articles on that site and "Dustin" wrote 'em all!
An Alan Smithee film?
It certainly includes a statement regarding coaching. The scoreboard and the breadth, length and depth of the futility in this "rivalry" is more reflective of the coaching staff talent gap than the player talent gap. And today the buck still stops at the top. There are days when, watching the quality of Juwan and his staff, my leash for Jim get more than short.
I'd say the difference between Juwan and Harbaugh are that Juwan can recruit at the same level as Duke and Kentucky while Harbaugh is nowhere close to Alabama or Ohio State. On the court, adjustments seem to be made after halftime like in the BTT Maryland game and LSU game. In football, the team seems to play the same or worse after halftime like in the 2016 Iowa game or 2020 MSU game.
Uhh Harbaugh went toe-to-toe against the big dogs for recruits in his first 3ish years. It's what happened after the kids got to campus that has been the problem w/ Harbaugh.
Harbaugh has never had the top class in the country like Juwan has. Football was pretty good at recruiting in 2016 and 2017 but fell off once Harbaugh and Wheatley parted ways.
March 24th, 2021 at 10:02 PM ^
Hoke's 2012 and 2013 classes produced better teams and more all around talent capable of going toe to toe with OSU than any class Harbaugh has had.
No. Even Harbaugh's top recruiting classes never reached Bama-OSU-Clemson level. Juwan had a very good class in his first year and a Top 1 class next year.
limited data on Juwan with only 1.75 seasons and many key players having been developed and recruited under Beilein, but can't argue with this analysis given the the data we have. We do need to acknowledge that Harbaugh was handed a rebuilding effort, but Juwan was handed an ascendent program. Also key pieces -- primary rival in basketball (MSU) had peaked a decade earlier but primary rival in football (OSU) has been on a consistent rise that has spanned two decades.
I'm not sure Harbaugh took over a rebuilding effort. Michigan had a bunch of Hoke recruits getting drafted in the NFL. They had talent but was poorly coached by Hoke and his staff.
Juwan already took over an elite program and maintained it which is hard to do.
And Harbaugh has had 6 years. So whatever the state of the program was when he inherited, it has been long enough.
Hey, I can cherry pick games, too! Remember when UM came from behind after a disastrous start in the 2018 Northwestern game? Or how about the near perfect half to erase the deficit in the 2019 Penn State game?
March 25th, 2021 at 12:13 AM ^
Spot-on assessment, night and day right now! We will see if Harbaugh can turn it around this year.
March 24th, 2021 at 10:07 PM ^
I don't get this point. Football has 85 scholarships, while basketball has 13(?). Football has I believe 11 coaches that can recruit, and basketball has 4 coaches. 85 / 11 vs. 13 / 4, not even close in terms of numbers / effort level. Lot easier to amass talent just statistically.
March 24th, 2021 at 10:41 PM ^
Truth. Look at the results, look at the principal actor in each program. I've written and re-written this comment a few times trying to get my words right, but I know what I see, and I see competency, family, credibility, process, and end-game results on the Blue Hoops side with Coach Howard. I don't see that on the other side.
Also bb vs FB is an apples to oranges comparison. Need about 2 outstanding guys with 4 or 5 role players And you can go far in roundball. That combo may not win you a game in FB. Coaching hoops is waaaaaay easier.
Franz Wagner is a descendant of Stretch Armstrong.
On the Djokavic evolutionary line I believe.
Maybe, and hear me out here, he's saying that his team is talented and not, in fact, full of bums who will forever be losers?
Ya I hear a kid defending his brothers.
Yeah. I don't know why people read these comments in bad faith around here, but Collins saying "I think Michigan is talented enough to beat OSU" isn't some super-secret code for "I think Michigan and Harbaugh are awful and please save me."
Apparently Nico isn't willing to throw his teammates under the bus, which is admirable.
Edit
While clearly incorrect
Why is it incorrect?
What metric could we possibly use to try and prove there isn't a talent gap between Michigan and OSU in football? Unless we are taking the whole of their histories which is probably a bad idea since they still have more Heisman winners and claimed national titles, including a better overall winning percentage at this point. Just looking at the past 20 or so years it looks like this:
Recruiting rankings - gap
NFL draft picks - massive gap
On-field performance - historically massive gap.
That's why the statement that there is no talent gap is incorrect. I hate writing it just as much as any Michigan fan hates reading it, but let's not be delusional.
I'm not delusional but until I see competent coaching, I'm going to push back at the notion of a gap. Michigan over the past 15 or so years has wasted more talent than many programs even get in the first place.
Than many programs, yes. But there is little doubt the amount of talent entering OSU is above Michigan as rated by third parties. That's not to defend development or utilization of that talent. A 5 star guy at Michigan is a big deal. At OSU it's pretty commonplace. Since 2017, for instance, 16 for OSU. 4 for Michigan.
You're going to push back on the notion of a talent gap by pointing to OSU developing talent better (which they already get more of than Michigan) as a reason there... isn't a talent gap?
March 24th, 2021 at 10:40 PM ^
You just described a coaching gap.
March 24th, 2021 at 10:45 PM ^
Correct, coaching is performed on talent. They start with more talent and it gets better at a greater rate than Michigan. The gap that is already present based on recruiting only gets wider based on coaching. I'm glad we can agree.
March 25th, 2021 at 10:16 AM ^
We don't agree.
What coaching at Michigan have you seen in the last 10 or so years that takes the existing talent and develops it (to OSU levels)?
You're just going around in circles now.
Nico's whole point is Ohio State not head and shoulders above Michigan. Starz aside, if that's true, then why cannot Michigan beat Ohio State more than once in the last generation.
Hint: It's not a fucking spot. It's coaching.
Coaching matters. e.g., Mork Dantini, like him or not, didn't rake in near the classes Michigan or Ohio had but still won.
With all due respect to Nico, this is beyond false. In case there is someone here who still doesn't believe that, take a look.
2020, the highest rated UM recruit would have been the 8th best in OSU's class (Henning)
2019, very good UM class. Daxton would have been #2 in OSU's class. Hinton would have been #4. Charbonet would have been #6.
2018, Aiden Hutchinson was our top recruit. Great player. Would have been astonishingly the 14th highest ranked recruit in OSU's class. Freaking 14th.
2017. DPJ was rated almost as high as Daxton. Would have been 4th highest in OSU's class. Aubrey Solomon would have been 5th, barely, and Ruiz would have been 8th.
I think I can stop there. Even our absolute best classes, they still have better top end players. Our decent classes? They destroy us. Over that 4 year stretch we barely have any players who would start on either side of the ball. So UM recruits would essentially fill out the 2-deep. When our starters would almost exclusively be their backups, how are we expected to win?
So yes, while there have been plenty of coaching and development shortcomings, the answer is talent, talent, talent.
Put in another way, in that 4 year stretch OSU signed 36 players with a rating of .9500 or higher. UM signed 13. Some hit, some miss, but the margin for error is a little different when that's what you're starting with.
Before anyone asks, Alabama signed 47 over .9500 in that stretch. So now we're talking 3rd string guys that would start at UM.
maizen is going to have to take a sedative if/when he stumbles on this thread.