ND Recuiting

Submitted by WhatTheFekete on
Look...I am not an idiot. I follow college football nationally very closely, but I don't understand how Notre Dame continues to recuit so well. I understand the NBC contract, and the traditions. I am sure they have great facilities, and good academics. But should Weis still be pulling in top 10 recuiting classes with the quality they have been playing? I would think that high school kids would want an opportunity to go to a decent bowl game in their college career. Look for any thoughts on this topic. Rankings according to rivals: 2009 - 10th 2008 - 2nd 2007 - 8th 2006 - 8th This also means that there is a lot of talent on a team that is not doing anything.

MechE

November 29th, 2008 at 9:47 PM ^

Charlie has some Super Bowl rings he can flash to the kids, other than that, I don't know. He just must be a persuasive guy. I don't think much of him as a coach, but you have to concede he is an impressive recruiter.

formerlyanonymous

November 29th, 2008 at 11:57 PM ^

I still claim there are a good number of ND recruits that get that extra star in their rankings if they would be considered a fringe 3 to 4*. The ND offer bumps them up to 4*. I'm not saying that's how all of their offers work, Clausen was the #1 QB his year, which at the time seemed fair. I think some of their lower level recruits on the other hand may get the bump more than we realize.

Chrisgocomment

November 30th, 2008 at 1:18 AM ^

I think a lot of it has to do with the ND mojo. As in, I'm not sure which "high school all-star" game it was last year, but they invited like 10 ND recruits. 10! Out of a team that was supposedly representative of the country. FAKE! Anyway, there's your top 10 ranking. While other teams have to actually find real top rated players, ND just has to recruit period. Whomever they sign must be good, because, by GOD THEY'VE SIGNED WITH NOTRE DAME!

BlueinOhio

November 30th, 2008 at 1:42 AM ^

There was an excellent blurb in the Columbus Dispatch here the week of the OSU vs UM game about how Weis had called Pryor and Pryor's coach in an attempt to recruit him. They had him quoted as saying something along the lines of, "If you spend one day with me I'll make you good. If you spend two days with me, I'll make you great. If you spend three days with me, I'll make you amazing." He also said to Pryor, "Give me a call this weekend, I'll be watching where Brady Quinn goes in the NFL draft." Pryor never returned the call.

lhglrkwg

November 30th, 2008 at 1:17 PM ^

when I saw ND/USC hi-lights this morning i was wondering how notre dame got beat so bad. their talent is only a little behind USC's but they got annihilated

Hannibal.

December 1st, 2008 at 9:10 AM ^

I have always been baffled by numbers like this too. I have often wondered why high school kids will play for such crappy coaches. Ron Zook is another guy whose classes puzzle me.

myrtlebeachmai…

December 1st, 2008 at 10:24 AM ^

Some info for those involved in the deleted discussion: I'll give you that maybe in your experience, you've seen differently. I don't think the point of the original post was to claim this a "clear-cut" issue across all of America. I would not pretend to assume that all kids, everywhere, ignore local powerhouse favorites. My experience, however is not like yours, which entitles me to my own opinion. The Catholic schools I grew up around were high $$$ institutes that actively brought in top-notch atheletes for their high $$$ top-notch programs. Virtually every one of the "true Catholic" kids (i.e. non-Raghib types) that was a seriously considered D-I prospect wanted a ND offer bad. If their parents were really Catholic and were forking out the dough, they all pursued it, even if only academically in some cases. Also true, that a high percentage of the top military officers kids from the nearby base sought out West Point or Annapolis. As for your request of stats: you won't get it - I doubt anyone in this country is allowed to survey anything remotely related to religious preference anymore; however just for kicks: Let's look at even just this year's Notre Dame recruiting class' school names: Bishop Dwenger St. Ignatius Immaculata St. Peter's Prep Bishop Chatard Northwest Catholic St. Thomas Aquinas Jesuit Not bad? 8 out of 17? Try to find me another school even close and maybe you'll get the original point.

dankbrogoblue

December 2nd, 2008 at 5:21 AM ^

With whoever said it's better to say that ND's Catholic association is a draw for Catholic prospects. I've seen their Catholicism work to the contrary though: There was a kid who went to my high school that was offered by Notre Dame, but he turned it down because he's muslim. The next best offer was Western, and he broke some records there at LB, but never got drafted. I don't know, when it comes to ND I usually think "ass-holes" before "catholics." But maybe that's because I come from a catholic family that hates Notre Dame.

chitownblue (not verified)

December 1st, 2008 at 10:23 AM ^

Internet Rule: If you make a generalization about a relgious group that constitutes millions of people in virtually every country in the world, do not be surprised if some people take offense. Perhaps an internet message board about college football isn't the place for it. Thus, post deleted.

baorao

December 1st, 2008 at 10:32 AM ^

its right next to Chicago and its as "big time" as a place like Michigan with about 35,000 less students. I can see how that would draw kids in. Not everyone wants the typical 40,000 student undergrad campus of the major public universities that are good at football.

baorao

December 2nd, 2008 at 8:51 AM ^

I am not talking about night life. I am talking about the school, the stadium, the degree and the football. Touchdown Jesus, the helmet, all of that stuff. and before you even make your counter argument I'll just say this: If all the off campus stuff was as important as you seem to think it is we would have never gotten where are. If you put aside all the facilities/traditions related to football Ann Arbor probably isn't even in the top 25 college cities in the country.

Magnus

December 2nd, 2008 at 10:03 AM ^

I wouldn't know what the top 25 college cities are because I haven't been everywhere. But even without football, I would have enjoyed my time in Ann Arbor. There are lots of interesting people, cool lectures, everything's within walking distance, IM sports, the music scene is pretty awesome, comedy shows, shopping, etc. I can only compare Ann Arbor to the other college cities in Michigan I've been to (Kalamazoo, East Lansing, Mount Pleasant, Ypsilanti, Marquette), Toledo, San Luis Obispo, and that's about it - and Ann Arbor is way cooler than those places.

Magnus

December 2nd, 2008 at 10:23 AM ^

I personally think nightlife is overrated. Clubs and bars are usually just filled with sweaty people and loud music where conversation is drowned out. I'd much rather go see a concert - where music is THE POINT - than go to Mitch's or Charley's and scream in people's ears over "My Shirona."

WolvinLA

December 1st, 2008 at 1:43 PM ^

I think instead of saying "all catholics want to go to ND" the comment should be something like "ND gets a draw from a lot of kids that they normally wouldn't because it is Catholic." My best friend in HS was catholic and his entire family loved ND for that reason. Same with my mom's side of our family - no ties to ND at all, but they are catholic and love them some ND. This is by not means a rule across the board, but they do have an extended fan base for that reason.

Chrisgocomment

December 1st, 2008 at 5:42 PM ^

Harper Woods Notre Dame (now closed). I ran from 1993 to 1996 and ran in States twice. If I recall we won our region my sophomore year. The State meet in '96 was at MIS. That was weird. I think they still hold the meet there.

Magnus

December 1st, 2008 at 7:19 PM ^

I think it is naive to think that Notre Dame's status as a Catholic school has no effect on recruiting. It has lots of good things - academics, tradition, a high profile, etc. - plus the fact that it's Catholic. I am not Catholic, but much of my extended family is - they would have been elated if I went to Notre Dame. Not to get too much into politics, but the United States is a very Christian nation. Religion affects many things. Why wouldn't it affect where kids go to play football? That being said, I'm guessing there are a number of Catholics who have spurned offers from Notre Dame to attend other schools. Michigan has a number of kids from Catholic schools, although I'm not sure how many were recruited by Notre Dame: Michael Williams (St. Bonaventure) Obi Ezeh (Catholic Central) Mark Huyge (Catholic Central) Brandon Logan (Lexington Catholic) Mike Massey (St. Ignatius) John Ferrara (Monsignor Farrell)

Sommy

December 2nd, 2008 at 12:27 AM ^

Er, yeah, Austin White. I don't know where I got "Scott" from. All I know is that I don't like Stevenson because I live right across the road from it, and some Stevenson kids smashed my windshield with a pumpkin one night a few years ago.

Sommy

December 2nd, 2008 at 12:36 AM ^

Well, to be fair, I live in the "$75,000 house" area of Livonia, not by 8 Mile and Newburgh. At the same time, I realize there's a problem when I've worked with Stevenson alumna who have referred to 6 Mile and Middlebelt as "the ghetto" of Livonia. Really though, Franklin is pretty bad.

Brodie

December 2nd, 2008 at 12:55 AM ^

The ghetto of Livonia is Clarenceville. I was always baffled by the "Your dad's work for our dad's" chants our students did at football games. 90% of their dad's were auto workers in a slightly higher income bracket. EDIT: I take that back. All of Westland is the ghetto of Livonia.

Seth

December 2nd, 2008 at 10:08 AM ^

My grandpa's favorite joke (like he would slide it in whenever he could) was whenever someone mentioned Shakespeare, he'd say "you mean Bill Shakespeare, the quarterback at Notre Dame?" Yes, the Domers had a QB named William Shakespeare back in the day. In that day, however, that was probably the least exotic name on the ND squad, at least according to the sensibilities of what constituted a majority of Americans. Back then, an Irish name was treated by many Americans with a similar contempt that is shown today for some African language-inspired names for blacks. Even a generation later, in Detroit, and other big cities, it was common for the Jewish boys like my father and the Catholic (mostly Irish, Italian and Polish) kids to be living in the same neighborhoods. However, each group generally segregated themselves, and had distinct sets of stereotypes. The Catholics, it was said, were the rough-and-tumble guys. They're the ones who'd as soon knock you down as speak to you. They were the toughs. They were the bigs. These are all century+old stereotypes, of course. But they were powerful, well-known stereotypes that persisted well into my parents' generation, a time when being Catholic still meant being not mainstream. It's hard to imagine today, but Catholics, and Irish Catholics in particular, were in much the same position then as African Americans are today, i.e. they had the presidency, but they were still somewhat marginalized, still the victims of prejudice from holdouts of different times. Teenagers of any persuasion are known identity seekers. As such, they tend to latch on to stereotypes, even going so far as to transform themselves to meet them. If society said a Catholic boy at a boarding school in LaPorte, Ind., was going to be a tough guy (according to one such fella*), that kid would make himself a tough guy. Football loves tough guys. Being a football tough guy is something you can learn. Not everyone with athletic prowess can play, or chooses to play football. Mentality is a big part of the game. As with any sport, early commitment to the game is a big part of success. On the day Jack Kennedy was sworn into office, it was Catholic boys who were filling the rosters of college football programs well beyond their statistical population footprint. It was Catholic boys who were being told when they were teens that toughness was their ticket out. It was during that period, from my grandpa's childhood through my father's, that Notre Dame built itself into a premier program. For all that time, its lifeblood was these Catholic boys. At a time when many Catholic Americans had few ways out of a predestined life in the working class, playing football for Notre Dame was the pinnacle of many of these boys' dreams. Thus, the school at South Bend for two generations had the inside track for tough guys all across the United States. The ND national recruiting model later became modern recruiting. But by nature of getting there first, ND still has the inside track on many traditional high school football programs which themselves were built on the backs of Catholic boys. The halls of St. Thomas Aquinas et al. all across the country are filled with photos of star alumni in their golden domes. ND is as much an institution in these schools as the fight song. They no longer have the automatic draw, especially as Catholics in this country have, for the most part, completed their transition from margins to mainstream, meaning some oncologist of our generation might have, in a different time, made a fine defensive tackle for Notre Dame. Today, it's African Americans still in transition from the margins to the mainstream, still fighting vestigial and institutionalized disadvantages, and thus more open in their teenage years to the kind of commitment needed to succeed in sports. And likewise, college football programs around the country have benefited from filling their rosters with today's tough kids, who learn life's tough lessons early in Pahokee and show up to play football with a hardness few kids in Birmingham could ever imagine. And likewise, schools ideally situated to bring these kids in are today's rising powers. Meanwhile, the traditional powers maintain their institutional advantages for bringing in the creme de la creme. College football will prosper in talent so long as American teenagers feed themselves to it. The only thing that changes is which teens decide to take that plunge. As our society continues its slow march of integration, the faces of those teens and the name on the back of the jersey will likewise change. But if that name be Hernandez, Williams, Mienkewitz, O'Malley, Dimatello, Klausen, Levine, or as Anglo-Saxon as William Shakespeare, he's still, essentially, the same boy. *Chief Justice John G. Roberts, who once thought playing for Notre Dame was about as high as any man could go.