NCAA Rulebook on Roughing the Kicker
Since this came up on the MGoPodcast, and is relevant to B1G punter adventures, here's what the NCAA rulebook says. Basically, the kicker "does not automatically lose his protection...unless he carries the ball outside the tackle box." If he does run outside the tackle box, the kicker "loses his roughing or running-into protection by carrying the ball outside the tackle box." See sections VI and VII below.
Roughing Or Running Into Kicker Or Holder—ARTICLE 16
Approved Ruling 9-1-16
I. A1 catches a long snap and plans to punt from behind his line of scrimmage but misses the ball, which falls to the ground. A1 is then contacted by B1. RULING: Team A fumble. No foul by B1. There is no kicker until the ball is kicked.
II. A1 kicks the ball, after which B1, unable to stop his attempt to block the kick, runs into the kicker or holder. RULING: Penalty—Five yards from the previous spot. Roughing and 15 yards and first down if in question as to whether the foul is “running into” or “roughing.”
III. A1, from a nonscrimmage kick formation, makes a quick, unexpected kick so suddenly that B1 cannot avoid contact. RULING: This is not roughing or running into the kicker since the rule applies only when it is obvious that a kick will be made.
IV. B1 runs into player A1, who has kicked the ball and has had a reasonable time to regain his balance. RULING: Not a foul by B1 unless ruled as running into or throwing himself against an opponent obviously out of the play (Rule 9-1-12).
V. After B1 runs into the kicker, kicker A25 simulates being roughed. RULING: Offsetting fouls.
VI. Team A is in a scrimmage kick formation. Punter A1 moves laterally two or three steps to recover a faulty snap, or recovers a snap that went over his head, and then kicks the ball. B2 contacts A1 in an unsuccessful attempt to block the kick. RULING: A1 does not automatically lose his protection in either case unless he carries the ball outside the tackle box. While in the tackle box A1 is entitled to protection as in any other kicking situation. When it becomes obvious that A1 intends to kick in a normal punting position, defensive players must avoid him after he kicks the ball.
VII. Punter A22 is 15 yards behind the neutral zone when he catches the long snap, sprints to his right at an angle toward the line of scrimmage, and runs outside the tackle box. He then stops and punts the ball, and is immediately hit by a diving B89. RULING: Legal play, no foul by B89. A22 loses his roughing or running-into protection by carrying the ball outside the tackle box.
November 7th, 2022 at 6:03 PM ^
So if he runs outside the tackle box, he loses his protection.. However what is the tackle box defined as?
The normal tackle box
or the 25 yards most of the spread punt formations have between their tackles
November 7th, 2022 at 8:09 PM ^
While l don't think a punter should retain protection when doing that, it's hard to support that it's dumb or silly- the dude is unstoppable, unreturnable, yadda.
I bet at some point a bunch of people poo-pooed the forward pass as 'silly', too.
November 7th, 2022 at 8:13 PM ^
Woody Hayes thought the forward pass was silly
November 7th, 2022 at 8:16 PM ^
The rulebook defines the tackle box as the two invisible lines five yards from the ball before it is snapped.
November 7th, 2022 at 6:03 PM ^
That Rutger Punter deserved to be roughed with all that silly running around
November 7th, 2022 at 6:11 PM ^
Let's not go to Piscataway, tis a silly place.
November 7th, 2022 at 6:25 PM ^
Jansen may join just to upvote this.
November 7th, 2022 at 6:24 PM ^
I would propose that all rugby-style kickers are not "intending to kick in a normal punting position" and therefore lose their protection as soon as they start running with the ball. We saw the crazy Kentucky example called and the Rutger punters was running 5 or 6 steps before punting it.
November 7th, 2022 at 6:25 PM ^
It's against it.- Hezekiah Munson
November 7th, 2022 at 7:11 PM ^
How many children do you have, Brother Hezekiah?
Uh, none that I know of.
November 7th, 2022 at 6:26 PM ^
A couple of those punts looked like the guy was way outside any reasonably defined tackle box. If he punts it and gets blown up with a hit, it can no longer be considered roughing the punter. Is it no call? Is it a personal foul? I've got to believe most refs would lean towards personal foul. If not, I want to see Kenneth Gant on punt teams with his sole purpose to "block" any punter who runs outside the tackle box prior to punting.
November 7th, 2022 at 11:28 PM ^
Personal foul for what? It’s either roughing the kicker or nothing. Like hitting the QB after he releases his pass, if you hit the punter after he sprinted outside the tackle box, as long as it wasn’t late, it should not be a foul per the rule book
November 7th, 2022 at 6:39 PM ^
This is ridiculous and too complicated to properly officiate. After securing the snap, ANY lateral movement or movement to escape rushers should disqualify protection.
Basically, you either stand there and punt or you become a ball-carrier.
November 7th, 2022 at 6:39 PM ^
Does anyone remember our strange attempts at "rugby" style punting in 2003? It lasted maybe 2 games before we decided that it was a very bad idea. I was at the Oregon game in Eugene and seem to remember watching this strategy and thinking, well this isn't going to go well.
November 7th, 2022 at 11:00 PM ^
That one thing aside, we had a very good rugby/Aussie punter in 2015
November 7th, 2022 at 6:49 PM ^
IIRC, when Michigan played Oregon State in Harbaugh’s second game here, Michigan got called for roughing after OSU’s punter held the ball just like Rutgers’s guy did and Harbaugh lost his shit.
November 7th, 2022 at 7:07 PM ^
There was a great gif of Harbaugh dropkicking the beaver head.
November 7th, 2022 at 7:15 PM ^
While I don't remember that, the Oregon State game was a bit like Saturday's game against Rutgers. They were getting outplayed but it was still a close game at 10-7 a minute or two before the half.
Until, that is, the Oregon State long snapper sent the ball over the punter's head and they recovered on their own three for a roughly fifty yard loss. The touchdown Michigan scored right before the half essentially put the game away.
November 7th, 2022 at 7:56 PM ^
I do recall
November 7th, 2022 at 8:11 PM ^
Yeah exactly. I'm curious what the discussion on the podcast was, because I vividly remember this rule from the aftermath of that Oregon St. game (the refs totally screwed up that call btw)...
November 7th, 2022 at 9:53 PM ^
I was at that game. I think the Oregon St punter muffed the snap or was being rushed and ran outside the pocket near the sideline, and then punted. JH was PO'ed when we got called for a roughing the kicker call. If you drop the snap or it is errant and you run around to your right or left, no roughing should be called just because you hit the punter. Take the judgment out of the call.
It's not fair for a rusher to have to guess if the guy is going to run upfield for a 1st down and then suddenly decide to punt.
November 8th, 2022 at 11:17 AM ^
JH was pissed because they flat out screwed up the call. The rules are clear that it wasn't roughing; the refs just messed it up...
November 7th, 2022 at 8:26 PM ^
Yeah, I’d order a blasting of all running punters. I’d even warn the referees before the game and tell them “hey, if the punter runs to the side at all we’re going for the hit. I want to make sure you realize this is a legal play and there’s no surprises
November 7th, 2022 at 9:07 PM ^
Now that Brian painted the picture, I really really reallllly want to see a rugby punt to a teammate who then gains the first down. Harbaugh make it happen. B1G is the supreme punting conference.
November 7th, 2022 at 9:20 PM ^
Why am I surprised that these rule details make sense and sound reasonable?
Despite the rule, I suspect the refs would have thrown a flag if Rutger's punter got hit outside the tackle box.
November 7th, 2022 at 11:15 PM ^
Johnson hit the punter as he was punting. Probably would have been roughing in the pocket, but correctly didn’t draw a flag.
November 7th, 2022 at 10:29 PM ^
This also came up in the Missouri vs Kentucky game this weekend. The snap went over the punters head, the punter fields it his own 4, and literally just barely gets the punt off before being annihilated, Missouri was called for roughing and Kentucky then ran out the clock. How are you supposed to avoid that?
November 7th, 2022 at 11:04 PM ^
Kicker protection should only apply if you catch the snap and immediately begin a kicking motion. Otherwise, passer rules should apply - only “roughing” if you hit them egregiously hard and/or late.
November 8th, 2022 at 9:44 AM ^
I think this should be enforced more:
V. After B1 runs into the kicker, kicker A25 simulates being roughed. RULING: Offsetting fouls.
If you bump the kicker and he flops like he's playing in the EPL, then those are offsetting penalties.
November 8th, 2022 at 2:01 PM ^
I really don’t trust refs to get the tackle box rule right. Let’s still avoid these guys, but if we get the all clear, go right for him. That should dissuade teams from playing around on punts like Saturday night.