MSU's Josh Langford out for the Year

Submitted by Bambi on January 30th, 2019 at 6:31 PM

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Langford has missed the last 8 games so with an undisclosed foot injury. Now announced to be a stress fracture and he's done for the year. His backup Kyle Ahrens has also been in and out of the lineup with back issues and missed the game vs Purdue.

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stephenrjking

January 30th, 2019 at 6:34 PM ^

Feel bad for anyone who gets hurt.

Langford is yet another blue chip recruit (and McDonald's All-American, a popular distinction in some quarters) that will miraculously spend four years under Izzo's tutelage. It's remarkable how he does that.

BTW Langford will have been a part of MSU's program for three years and will have scored 11 points against Michigan.

Not average. Total. 

Joined: 03/15/2012

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TrueBlue2003

January 30th, 2019 at 7:24 PM ^

What is the scheme he's running that he's cramming misfit parts into?

I don't think this has been his problem.  His problem is much like Harbaugh's problem.  He's still recruiting for and playing a scheme that is antiquated.  In the case of Izzo that was recruiting old school bigs like Ward and Tillman and then playing them in a two big lineup the way he's done forever.  All the while letting guys take way too many long twos.  Same as Harbaugh recruiting a bunch of FBs and TEs and bunching the formation with heavy personnel.  Doesn't work as well as other, better schemes.  The sports have changed and coaches need to adapt.

I have to give credit where credit it is due this year though.  MSU has mostly transformed the way they play.  Almost all ball screens with Winston, just one big and shooters spreading it out.  Their offense is really good. They adapted it well to Winston's talent.

Now let's see our dinosaur evolve with some #speedinspace.

Joined: 01/05/2010

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bronxblue

January 30th, 2019 at 8:52 PM ^

I am not an Izzo fan by any means, but I keep seeing people argue he hasn't evolved offensively and that really hasn't been true for some time.  Since 2012 they've had an offense ranked outside the top 30 in KenPom exactly once, and that was in 2017 when they had a really young team and barely made the tournament.  They haven't played Flintstones-style offenses for a long time.  

Izzo wastes a lot of talent because he's not a particularly great in-game coach in my opinion.  You saw it last year against Syracuse - he couldn't get his head around the idea of playing his all-world NBA prospect at center and just smash the zone either inside or letting JJJ bleed outside for shots, so he lost rather spectacularly.  He's really good at drilling things into his players so they live and breathe "MSU basketball" by the time they leave, and for a lot of guys that's 3-4 years.  

 

Joined: 11/22/2008

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drjaws

January 30th, 2019 at 10:01 PM ^

I kinda think that their offense is rated that high because they consistently get 5 star talent, not because they have an evolving and modern offensive philosophy.

That being said, I am a football/hockey guy and the only basketball I watch is most M games, March madness, and the occasional Sparty game.  So it’s entirely possible I am full of shit as I am not well educated in the finer points of basketball.

Joined: 02/26/2014

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footballguy

January 30th, 2019 at 10:04 PM ^

I see this a lot too. I know that 2016 team flamed out, but that team didn't seem "archaic" to me at all. The ball movement was probably the best I've ever seen under Izzo and they ran us out of the gym in the first half with ball movement/screens/3 pointers. I later read that, through Draymond, Izzo talks with Steve Kerr and was trying to copy schemes and what not

Joined: 10/04/2018

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TrueBlue2003

January 31st, 2019 at 12:05 AM ^

I disagree with some of those points.

1) Having a top 30 offense with top 10 talent isn't necessarily that impressive.  When you have really good players you can and should still be good.  You might not be as good as you can be though.  It certainly doesn't necessarily prove that they've evolved because...

2) Their offense is typically propped up by a high OREB rate, which is usually a sign of having an old school offensive philosophy.  It helps on the offensive end but most teams don't crash the offensive boards anymore because gaining a few more OREBs isn't worth the transition opps you give up.  And indeed, MSU has had some pretty meh defenses in that time span.

And indeed the personnel he recruits and plays is often post and rebounding focused.

In 2015, he started Costello and Dawson. It doesn't get more Izzo than starting not one but two guys who literally have no offensive ability outside of 5 feet from the hoop.

In 2016, Costello and Davis.

In 2018, Ward and Jackson (and while Jackson was a stretch four he was also an elite rim protector that would have been better used at the five where he could be more of a help defender).

It's "old-school" to start two interior focused guys that are non-entities on the perimeter and send both of them to crash offensive rebounds but Izzo continues to do that.

I actually think he's pretty good at adapting to personnel.  When Adrien Payne developed a shot, they did run a more modern offense. They have evolved some, like Harbaugh running some modern stuff sometimes.

He just continues to love burly, rebounding bigs that clog the lane with post-ups and he recruits too many of them IMO.  So then he runs offenses tailored to them.  Like Harbaugh recruiting too many FBs and TEs because he loves footbawwwwwww players and then they end being like, hey, we have all these TEs, let's throw three of them out there and bunch the formation, yeah!

Joined: 01/05/2010

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outsidethebox

January 31st, 2019 at 6:59 AM ^

Well, Izzo screwed his last year's team over big-time. What he did-or rather did not do with an uber-talented Jackson and Bridges was perhaps the most mindless piece of coaching I have ever seen. Izzo is the reverse of Beilein...in every bad way possible. He used to be very good-very heavy on the USED TO.

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ohio

January 31st, 2019 at 10:38 AM ^

No one was talking about harbaugh's antiquated offense pre OSU. We were too busy fawning Ed Wariners job of improving the O Line AS WELL AS bench Mason. It amazes me how we arm chair quarterback with the benefit of hindsight. So many people praised Saban over Harbaugh for progressing with the times until they also got it handed to them.

Here in dallas no one on radio was complaining about Jason Garrett during their 8 game win streak. Now all of a sudden they can speak with authority about what a creative NFL offense looks like compared to a not so creative one. Using the f'ing Pro Bowl as a point of reference.  The same people were also convinced the luster had worn off McVeigh and the league was catching up to him until LA steamrolled us on their way to the SB.

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Mike Damone

January 30th, 2019 at 7:49 PM ^

You said their replacements would offer a different look.  My point was they are going to give a look like a "deer in headlights".

Reference to OP should be self explanatory...

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bronxblue

January 30th, 2019 at 9:00 PM ^

I sorta get what you're saying, but like, Michigan hasn't played a lot of guys they see during a year but they still find ways to scout them and be prepared.  There is nobody on MSU's roster that is a better Josh Langford-type player than Langford, and the way he's deployed on offense and defense I don't think Michigan will need to change much in their schemes.  If anything, it probably frees up Matthews more, if for no other reason than the guy taking most Langford's minutes (Henry) isn't quite the all-around offensive player as a true freshman.

Joined: 11/22/2008

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Double-D

January 30th, 2019 at 9:43 PM ^

Both freshmen Gabe Brown and AAron Henry have filled in nicely for Langford.  They have bigger upside and are much better now than a month ago.  Part of that is pt with Langford out. 

The only real potential gain for Michigan is msu loses a veteran been there done that player.  It may be a net loss. 

Joined: 12/21/2013

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Qmatic

January 30th, 2019 at 6:43 PM ^

Izzo has gotten 4 5 Stars in the past 4 years. Collectively they have won 2 NCAA tournament games. Players like Deyonta Davis and Jaren Jackson Jr were both benched in losing tournament games for walk-ons and guys who averaged 3 minutes all year. Bridges hurt his stock coming back and playing for Izzo where he spent a lot of time shooting 3’s and showcasing his mediocre handle. Langford through 3 years is not even at the level MAAR was as a junior and Poole has surpassed him as well. 

There is nothing in recent years Izzo has to sell to recruits. He doesn’t play high recruit big men a lot of minutes, players love draft stock sticking around two years, or he will have you relegated to a mid range shooter while they still employ an out dated offense scheme that involves playing through 6’8 unathletic big men.

Joined: 01/09/2013

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A Lot of Milk

January 30th, 2019 at 7:03 PM ^

But but but but Izzo won a championship twenty years ago. So he must still be the same coach he was then!! Don't pay any attention to the fact that his biggest competition was dead in the water due to NCAA sanctions for the majority of his career and now that they're back he can barely tread water against them. The game hasn't passed him by even though he gets routinely spanked by coaches that are his elder (Williams, Coach K, Beilein). Izzo is the best, I promise! 

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footballguy

January 30th, 2019 at 10:30 PM ^

I don't think his stock changed that much at all. Obviously it was a net loss (would have been anyway unless he went number 1), but I don't think going back to MSU negatively impacted him.

I think the only thing that hurt him was going into a more talented draft. That's the main difference. From a pure basketball perspective I don't think much changed. It didn't raise, which was his plan, but I don't think it lowered.

 

 

Joined: 10/04/2018

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wahooverine

January 31st, 2019 at 10:42 AM ^

Bad take after bad take.  Losing one of the their best players somehow makes them better and Miles Bridges - who was considered a top 5 pick following his sophomore year based on his athleticism and size alone - returning to school, having a middling year on a disapointing MSU squad, and going outside the top 10 is considered not hurting his draft stock.  Okey dokey.

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footballguy

January 31st, 2019 at 11:15 AM ^

He went in the exact spot he was projected to in 2017.

 

You have no fucking clue what you're talking about. I have said before it hurt it overall bottom line, but his intent was not to make more money by coming back. His intent was to come back to try to win a title.

Joined: 10/04/2018

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Bambi

January 30th, 2019 at 6:44 PM ^

In case anyone is wondering:

You can get a medical redshirt in basketball if you play in 30% or less of your team's games. Langford has played in 13 games this year, meaning MSU will need to play 44+ games for him to redshirt. MSU will play 31 regular season games. Even if MSU dropped to the bottom 4 in the B1G and and had no bye in the B1G tournament, MSU would play 42 if they make the B1G tournament final and the National Title Game. 

So not possible.

Joined: 10/12/2013

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umchicago

January 30th, 2019 at 7:37 PM ^

thanks for this. i tried googling awhile back to see if basketball changed its rules like football, but could only find commentary on football.  was wondering if the timing of that 30% of games mattered; ie. could we hold castleton out until at or near the post season run and still maintain his readshirt?

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