More (new) baseless speculation of Harbaugh to NFL
Apparently he is leading the odds to become the next Carolina Panthers coach: https://thespun.com/nfl/nfc-south/carolina-panthers/betting-odds-released-on-carolina-panthers-next-head-coach
I get that everyone has their hot takes after the way the season began and ended this year, but I just don't see 1) UM letting him go (and for who?) and 2) JH going to Carolina, now, of all options.
December 4th, 2019 at 9:20 AM ^
I don’t think Harbaugh could let himself leave before beating OSU at least once. His legacy would be the pretty good coach would literally never beat OSU.
December 4th, 2019 at 10:13 AM ^
I agree, but at this point, it's starting to look like more of a question of CAN he beat them more then WHEN. Sorry to say but I'm starting to have serious doubts about his ability to elevate the program to OSU's level. It's been five years and we are NOT peers of OSU. Our peers are still Wisconsin, Penn State, Iowa, and would be MSU had Mark Dantonio not driven their football bus off the cliff of the grand canyon. OSU is playing A tier football and we're down in B tier with the meat of the rest of the B1G.
If we weren't struggling with teams like Wisconsin and Penn State (who we seriously out recruit talent wise) and the ONLY team that we couldn't get past was OSU, then I'd think we were just that one next step away.
But this year has clearly shown that we're still down in B tier. Get embarrassed by Wisconsin, lose to Penn State (led by a coach this board constantly insults and ridicules), barely squeak by Iowa and it wasn't even at Kinnick. MSU has simply imploded.
Some years we beat these teams, other years we lose. That up and down has been a constant every year of Harbaugh's tenure here. We just aren't seeing our program pull away in a move toward's OSU's level. This is who we are right now and quite frankly, through five years, I haven't really seen anything that gives me confidence / the expectation we're going to take that next step any time soon.
It just might (not saying it's extremely likely, but the chance is starting to look like a real possibility) be the case that the longer Harbaugh stays, the worse his OSU record becomes. IF that's the case, could that impact Harbaugh's decision on how long he stays? Would he want to stay knowing that the record against OSU is just going to get worse? 0-8, 0-10, etc.? This isn't a Harbaugh bashing session, it's a hard look at the reality on the football field with five years of evidence. OSU is full steam ahead and, barring either A) a complete and utter meltdown of their football program, or B) Harbaugh demonstrating Urban/Saban level coaching, and program development skills that we so far haven't exactly witnessed, I'm just not sure that he'll ever be able to get a win, let alone wins with any semblance of consistency. 2016 was the best chance we've had but we still lost and OSU has somehow shifted into yet another higher gear since then, while we're still pretty much where we were. It's like they're driving a Ferrari and we've maxed out the RPMs in our classic 1969 Chevy Camaro and even though the pedal is pushed down to the floor, they're way out in front getting further and further away from us.
December 4th, 2019 at 10:22 AM ^
Penn State recruits just about as well as Michigan.
We do out-recruit Wisconsin though.
December 4th, 2019 at 11:13 AM ^
Which is why we should not get our dicks kicked in by Wisconsin.
December 4th, 2019 at 12:42 PM ^
Wisconsin has depth at each position and years to develop players.
December 4th, 2019 at 1:49 PM ^
You say that like their inferior recruiting is a benefit.
December 4th, 2019 at 10:37 AM ^
Harbaugh demonstrating Urban/Saban level coaching, and program development skills that we so far haven't exactly witnessed
Are Urban and Saban great coaches, sure. But, I think a lot of that is related to how well they recruit. Question is can Harbaugh get there given whatever obstacles might be in his way relative to Alabama/OSU?
As an aside, how is Alabama not awesome this year given those recruiting classes?
Recruiting Rankings per Rivals
2019 2018 2017 2016 2015
Alabama 2 7 1 1 2
OSU 21 2 2 3 9
M 10 24 4 4 51
December 4th, 2019 at 10:45 AM ^
I would content that recruiting top talent IS a part of coaching ability. If you want to be a college football coach, you have to be able to recruit. It's not the NFL where everyone gets to draft their players. You can't separate coaching from recruiting. They're connected.
December 4th, 2019 at 10:59 AM ^
OSU has 9 top 100 kids committed for 2020, we have 1, the 91st ranked player. They had 1 class that was a hiccup with the HC change and it still included 3 5 stars, we're falling further behind in recruiting.
December 4th, 2019 at 11:22 AM ^
Recruiting and talent counts for a lot but not for everything. There is something to be said for preparation and motivation, both areas where Ohio State consistently outperforms Michigan.
I still think Alabama is a pretty impressive team (they barely lost two close games to some of the best teams in the country). But it also goes to show that straight recruiting rankings don't override coaching, scheme, preparation and player development.
I know everyone here wishes we were on the same talent level as Ohio St. and that we should just break the rules to get there. But, how much worse would it be for Michigan to have 5-star recruits at every position and see them STILL come out flat and play like shit in the biggest game of the year? I'm not so sure a few extra stars here and there would cure the big problems Michigan has in this game.
December 4th, 2019 at 11:42 AM ^
Saban is a great coach in the same sense that UNC’s Roy Williams is.
December 4th, 2019 at 5:28 PM ^
They are awesome this year. They lost to arguably to the top team in the country (it's one game, that happens) and the other was by a field goal on the road in a game they outplayed their opponent.
Still a top tier program. Issue now with them is a few more teams joined their levels the last few years
December 4th, 2019 at 9:20 PM ^
Recruiting rankings are partially determined by size of class which is dubious for a number of reasons. OSU has a higher average rating of recruit than M basically every year and it shows.
Look at the composite rankings and all time recruits for both schools on 247. It's eye-opening.
M missed their chance to make a dent in 2016 and now they have to find a way to do it again with less talent and a huge mental block.
December 4th, 2019 at 11:03 AM ^
Sorry to say but I'm starting to have serious doubts about his ability to elevate the program to OSU's level.
Which level is that - the performance level, where OSU continuously competes for Big Ten and National championships; or the corruption level, where OSU has basically been under the cloud of some kind of scandal since 2009?
December 4th, 2019 at 11:24 AM ^
While I'm not advocating doing what OSU does, nonetheless, it hasn't really hurt them at all, especially on-field results. NCAA pretty much has to know what OSU and other SEC teams are doing and hasn't really done a whole lot about it. Personally I think it's time to drop the facade and come up with a workable way to compensate players.
In any case, we can get self-righteous about OSU (it's about all we can do, apparently) but it doesn't change the fact they're marching toward both a B1G and BCS title while M is looking at another Citrus Bowl or similar.
December 4th, 2019 at 12:43 PM ^
Exactly what does OSU do that Michigan doesn't? Process players? Yes, Harbaugh is now infamous for processing players. Recruiting and signing players that can barely read? Kareem Walker comes to mind. On line classes? Many Michigan players take advantage of on line classes. Academic Progress Rate? In 2018 OSU was ahead of Michigan. Lastly, both schools are are nationally top 20 public academic schools.
Paying players. It's quite the running joke that OSU grads fill the ranks of our nations truck drivers, but do you seriously believe that Michigan could provide greater compensation to players such that it could entice players to school in Ann Arbor instead of Columbus?
December 4th, 2019 at 1:59 PM ^
Zach Smith, tattoos, their two previous coaches leaving under particular auspices of bad behavior, etc.
That's what OSU does differently. Michigan's coaches save Gary Moeller left due to performance issues or on their own terms.
December 4th, 2019 at 2:33 PM ^
Tattoos? Tattoos is the difference between OSU being the superior program to that of Michigan? I've not noticed a paucity of tattoos among Michigan players.
December 4th, 2019 at 2:42 PM ^
Do OSU fans think that repeating the same nonsense over and over again in every thread on a Michigan board will change people's minds?
Enjoy your victory and don't lose sleep over what we think of your program.
December 4th, 2019 at 11:24 AM ^
If you doubt whether we CAN beat everyone one of our conference opponents, then you haven't been paying attention (especially in 2016).
Almost every one of the losses suffered in the Harbaugh years have been close (and many with a fair amount of b.s. included). Even the few blowouts COULD have gone differently.
December 4th, 2019 at 11:26 AM ^
If PSU can beat them, Michigan should be able to too.
December 4th, 2019 at 3:27 PM ^
Don't forget MSU....
December 4th, 2019 at 11:47 AM ^
December 4th, 2019 at 1:06 PM ^
Right. People talk about the Wisconsin and PSU losses as if they were in a vacuum. I’m as down after The Game as anyone, but to ignore the fact that we installed a new offense with a first-time OC — and that offense clearly got going well enough to inflate people’s hopes (mine included) that we had a chance against OSU where before we viewed it as an almost guaranteed loss — and that there would be a transition cost to be paid during the season just isn’t being objective. Hated villain Urban Meyer himself said it would take half a season to get off the ground and it pretty much took exactly that.
Now, if we get flattened next year, talent gap or no talent gap, well, we may officially be out of options with this coaching staff, and Jim may be the first to admit it. But we *should* certainly be the clear second best team in the B1G — cold comfort as it would be.
December 4th, 2019 at 11:52 AM ^
Jump off the cliff already. You’re right— we’re [currently] at the Wisconsin/Penn State level, whereas before we were at the Minnesota/Purdue/Illinois level. Regardless of what you (and others) think, it’s going to take more than 5 years of JH to get to OSU’s level. They went from 6-6 as their worst, to landing Urban Meyer—potentially one of the best college coaches of all time— and not having to sacrifice a thing. Michigan, on the other hand sacrificed stability for the hottest college coach, in terms of NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP caliber in Rich Rodriguez. That worked out well. High Risk for High Reward, we lost on the gamble. JH is the best of both Risk v Stability... with the floor raising to 9/10 win seasons as opposed to the 6 win floors we had under RR & Brady Hoke. Add in the constant changes to College Football recruiting: early signing period, transfer players, and Transfer Portal now, I would say we are doing fairly decent... probably a consistent Top-10 program in the Playoff Era. Harbaugh and Michigan will get their chances again at being a playoff team, relax.
December 4th, 2019 at 12:00 PM ^
Also, 2019 Ohio State is unreal due to the Urban Recruiting effect and the transferring in of Fields. When was the last time OSU landed that caliber/style of QB? Troy Smith or Terrell’s Pryor are the only ones I can think of. Otherwise, they bring in Braxton Miller’s, JT Barrett’s, and Tate Martell’s. They won’t always get Fields-level guys transferring in.
December 4th, 2019 at 4:19 PM ^
You literally cant prove at all that we might be in the playoffs. And F off with you're "relax".
Harbaugh had not only lost to OSU every game but been EMBARASSED in 3 of those games.
This is a completely fair and realistic conversation people are having. I guarantee if Michigan would have kept the score close and had the game be competitive we wouldn't be having this conversation.
But michigan was pathetic in this last game. Say what you want about how great OSU is this year. It shouldn't have been that much of a beat down period.
December 4th, 2019 at 4:29 PM ^
Yeah, it’s completely “fair” and “realistic”, the final score isn’t indicative of how the game went at all. Harbaugh went for it on 4th and 1 desperately trying to get points... He certainly COULD HAVE punted and played the field position game and forced Ohio State to go down a longer field. Is 49-27 better? What if we don't fumble, and have Ohio State march down the field? 42-34... is THAT realistic? Because that’s what happened. And that’s just it, it happened. So I’m not sure I’d classify this loss as much of an Embarrassment as 2015 and 2018. But you continue to complain, apparently YOU know more and have the answers. Maybe you should start coaching and see how far you get when you jump off the ledge every time things don’t go your way. RELAX.
December 4th, 2019 at 11:57 AM ^
Hmnnn…Petition to move Bama, OSU, Clemson, Georgia, and Oklahoma into their own league where they just play each other all year and the rest of D1 can compete as if they don't exist? Or we could just do what those schools do, bring in top 5 recruiting classes, and beat their asses?
December 4th, 2019 at 12:16 PM ^
Look at the SP+ percentile rankings for the last 100 years - and compare to Ohio State. Harbaugh's teams have consistently been in the 90s, similar to the Tressel and early Meyer years. But OSU has just elevated themselves even further. Going from good to great is easy for a great coach, which Harbaugh is. Going from great to juggernaut is really hard, which is why only all-timers like Saban and Meyer do it. In 2014, we wanted Harbaugh to get us into the Big Ten and national conversation, which he did in 2016 and 2018, and still won 9 games in 2015 and 2019, which is still very good. We're still a top 15 team in 2019. It's not his fault that OSU has been able to go to an even higher plane. And if OSU falls back in the next few years and we get to at least parity on the field, it won't be because he all of a sudden got to be a better coach, it will be because they are unable to maintain a very high level of performance.
December 4th, 2019 at 1:01 PM ^
Michigan is what it always was. A good but not great program. That’s all the university wants.
Anyone who thinks Michigan is going to Fire Harbaugh or change it’s MO if he leaves is deluding themselves.
Michigan isn’t going to ever operate like OSU, Clemson, or SEC schools. That just isn’t going to happen no matter who is head coach.
December 4th, 2019 at 9:56 PM ^
This is precisely why he might leave on his own accord. HIS brand is starting to suffer, and it looks like it could get worse.
December 4th, 2019 at 9:20 AM ^
Kinda surprised it took this long...
December 4th, 2019 at 9:21 AM ^
How about Harbaugh goes hard after former Bears player and DC Rivera to replace Brown.
December 4th, 2019 at 9:30 AM ^
Really well put.
December 4th, 2019 at 9:47 AM ^
Because Brown sucks and UM are never going to win anything with him as DC.
December 4th, 2019 at 9:56 AM ^
Yeah! Fuck those efficient and consistent top 10 S/P+ Defenses!
December 4th, 2019 at 10:48 AM ^
Yeah! We want one of them "bend but don't break" defenses we hear so much about!
December 4th, 2019 at 11:59 AM ^
We don't need a new DC. We need someone who can consistently recruit a couple top-100 DTs and DBs every year. Coach Brown and the defense didn't lose the game to OSU in 2016 when they had top defensive talent. This overreaction is getting crazy when he's already proven it if you look.
December 4th, 2019 at 12:49 PM ^
In fairness, this is often the DCs job.
December 4th, 2019 at 9:30 AM ^
I don't get the feeling Jim is a deep South kind of guy.
December 4th, 2019 at 10:03 AM ^
FWIW, I live in Charlotte and it is emphatically NOT in the “deep south”. Still don’t think it’d make sense for Harbaugh to take the Panthers job
December 4th, 2019 at 11:01 AM ^
Having a modern city center among other things doesn't remove Charlotte from South Carolina. Same goes for Atlanta.
December 4th, 2019 at 11:27 AM ^
That’s true, having a city center doesn’t remove Charlotte from South Carolina. Being in North Carolina removes them from South Carolina.
December 4th, 2019 at 11:28 AM ^
Except Charlotte isn't in South Carolina.
December 4th, 2019 at 11:37 AM ^
Brain fart. Neg away!
December 4th, 2019 at 11:07 AM ^
I find the south anything but “deep”
December 4th, 2019 at 9:37 AM ^
They've got Harbaugh, Jason Garrett, and Urban Meyer. I think they're just collecting money from rubes willing to bet that any of those guys end up there
December 4th, 2019 at 9:48 AM ^
I don’t think any NFL team would hire Jason Garrett. Has anyone ever done less with the type of talent he’s had?