Mixed emotions during MIA NYJ
did anyone else feel a slight twinge of pain and pleasure in seeing this game? Seeing chad and jake and braylon and david tearing things up, that was so satisfying. But I found myself thinking about the way things used to be.
I can't lie to myself, I miss the Lloyd days. Part of me will always miss it I'm sure.
I'm excited for the future of Michigan football...but this sure made me miss the past
October 13th, 2009 at 5:24 AM ^
but things needed to change. People want to bag on spread offenses, but if you have the talent to play in the NFL, you will no matter the offense you play. So I believe we will keep seeing fun matchups in the NFL of former Michigan players.
October 13th, 2009 at 6:52 AM ^
I thought Jake looked great. At least one great Pancake block. I was so happy that Braylon has escaped from Ohio. I had a hard time deciding which team to cheer for. It was a great game though. Don't forget about Jay Feely also, How 'bout some love for a former U of M kicker.
October 13th, 2009 at 7:21 AM ^
It made me think how great some of those teams could have been. Instead they were just good.
October 13th, 2009 at 8:31 AM ^
He definitely out shined Sanchez and Rex Ryan said, "We made him look like Dan Marino". As for Braylon, the best thing for him was getting out of Cleveland and starting over. All the former Michigan players played well and it was a fun game to watch.
October 13th, 2009 at 10:33 AM ^
My favorite Avatar on the site. :-)
October 13th, 2009 at 8:57 AM ^
I definitely had a sense of nostalgia watching the Jet-Miami game. Braylon is one lucky SOB getting out of Cleveland and going to the Jets. Henne looked really good - happy for him, Jake, etc. Don't know if the announcers ever mentioned that Chad was Braylon's QB for a year - worked out well for both.
There is a lot of Michigan talent from the last several years of Carr's tutelage now playing well in the NFL. Manningham, I suspect, will turn out to be a steal for the Giants. We had a few years of terrific football the last few years under Carr along with a few ughs (how do you spell Appalachian State?) - guess I am one of the few who felt really bad when he left. His last year should have been a really good one.
Had Carr hung around, we would have Mallet as a QB. Last year would have been a very different story. That's history. Kind of wonder how Michigan talent will do in the NFL under RichRod.
October 13th, 2009 at 9:11 AM ^
A lot of people miss Lloyd. And NOT just because "URGH, RichRod sucks!". Yeah, some of it has a bit of a comparison (I miss Lloyd when Rich sticks his foot in his mouth and falls into a media trap), but mostly just missing Lloyd for Lloyd. His style and grace. A break here or there, and he could have gone out on top. So yeah, a lot of us have those Lloyd moments.
I WAS thinking watching the game last night that boy, I'm going to miss having all these M players dominate in the NFL. I'll trade it for success on the college field (I remember how Perles always used to brag about how many players he got to the NFL, but Bo kept kicking his ass). But yeah, unless the kid down at Texas lights it up in the NFL next year, I think we're watching our last excellent NFL QB in Henne. And there probably won't be as many Braylon's coming out of this offense. But maybe we'll eventually attract some running backs that have as much success in the pros as they do in college. And there may still be Jake Longs in our future. We're a long way from having any post Lloyd defensive recruits lighting up the NFL though.
We'll see. Rod has years of recruiting with the Michigan name ahead of him to put great athletes in his offense. But it might be a little telling that Rich's best QB ever was backing up Henne last night. If Mallet makes the NFL does that mean Lloyd's NFL QB streak continues? Because I'm not thinking Threet is headed to the NFL from ASU... lol So the streak is toast now, and probably for awhile.
October 13th, 2009 at 9:56 AM ^
NFL talent will dry up under RR? "I'm going to miss having all these M players dominate in the NFL" Maybe you're referring to the QB position specifically?
"Post-Lloyd" defensive recruits are all underclassmen at the moment, so too early to make any projections.
Re: "Probably won't be as many Braylon's coming out of this offense." Maybe, maybe not. Lloyd had two world class receivers in 13 seasons in Braylon and Mario (that's epinion, obviously). It's not like Mich was stacked with Braylon-like talent every year, and it wasn't until Braylon was a junior that he started to come on. There isn't a Mario/Braylon-like player on the roster at the moment, that's for sure, even among the Carr WR recruits (Hemmingway, Stonum, Matthews ... also Clemons isn't likely to be that kind of talent at CU either). Stonum and Hemmingway are still young, so time will tell with these guys. But if the program stays on current trajectory, I think the sky's the limit in terms of recruiting at all positions. I'll suspect they'll throw the ball and talented outside guys will come.
Also, regarding RBs. It's not like Michigan has produced a ton of great NFL talent at this position (and perhaps you weren't implying this). All lot of successful college guys, but for various reasons, no one has blown up on the NFL level. Chris Perry. Anthony Thomas. Tyrone Wheatley. Tim Biakabatuka. Mike Hart. Jamie Morris. Leroy Hoard. This is a trend I'm hoping RR will reverse.
Keep the faith. Good things are coming.
October 13th, 2009 at 10:32 AM ^
No, I mean more than QBs. O-Linemen, Receivers, Defensive Backs. Maybe dominate IS too strong a word, but only in the context of the players we were seeing last night, who aren't really dominating, but doing pretty good. Henne, Braylon, Harris, Long and JAY FEELY!!! But played for Lloyd? Jon Runyan, Charles Woodson, Jerame Tuman, Steve Hutchinson, Jon Jansen (Glen Steele made the NFL for a little while), David Terrell (how HE did not do better, I can't figure), Ian Gold, Jeff Backus, Larry Foote, Tom Brady, David Baas, Marlin Jackson, Victor Hobson was still bouncing around the NFL not too long ago, Chris Perry and Hart are still hanging on there, heck Navarre even played in the League, Avant, Gabe Watson and Alan Branch in AZ, Leon Hall, Woodley. No school dominates the League, and some of those players are mid-level type players we still have on the roster and can produce. But there are some great O-Linemen there, some pretty darn good LBs, And a nice string of CBs continued by Lloyd. He only coached 13 years, that's maybe 3 sets of great 4 year players. And you're not going to have great players at every position replacing other great players who can go and succeed in the NFL. So it was more than just QBs.
The defensive players are all underclassmen, and mostly not that highly rated, but in any regard the Turners of the world are 2-3 years away from being draft prospects, so they're 4+ years away from any NFL impact, so yeah, my point that none of them are going to be doing anything in the NFL for the foreseeable future holds true. Doesn't mean they can't.
Receiver wise, there were some greats there before Lloyd took over, and when he took over the best receivers were H-Backs and Tight Ends (who all had long careers in the League), and Tai Streets, who played and got hurt (and wasn't that good). Which led to the Terrell mystery, who was followed by Walker (not really much of a pro) followed by Braylon followed by Avant (who's considered by some the best possession receiver in the NFL) followed by Manningham. Again, you're not really going to have 2 great pro receivers at any one time...maybe 2 great college receivers. Unless you're the Lions....oh, wait...
And I think I said I hope that now we could have some RBs have as much success in the Pros as the college ranks, so I think you're agreeing with me. With our running attack, it may cost us elite receivers, but running backs should, uh, come running. Looks like Slayton is going to be a good pro.
And really, the only one of those guys I had high hopes for was the Tyrone Wheatley/Tim Biakabatuka era. Tim got injured early on, or he probably would have been pretty good, and Wheatley's best years were absolutely SCREWED by the nimrod coach in NY at the time. When he got out, he had a productive career as a big back...along Justin Fargas at times...but his best years as a speed back were gone. He was the RB that should have translated to the pros. Maybe Tony Boles, instead of Hoard, but he got hurt in the pre-come back from ACL days. But then we're digressing because that's before Lloyd's Head Coaching time.
October 13th, 2009 at 11:19 AM ^
It will take time, but I strongly believe the talent is going to come and will be developed.
Haven't seen any NFL draft forecasts, but it seems like beyond Graham, Warren and Mesko (late), perhaps Minor gets drafted if he stays healthy the rest of the year. His injury problems may mean teams won't take a chance with a pick, but he'd be a good free agent pick up with a reasonably good chance to stick. Brown and Mathews too seem more like a free agent kind of guys. Ortmann and Moosman will probably get free agent looks, too. I doubt Ortmann will stick but Moosman's versatility may make it interesting.
It is somewhat coicedental that Fargas may have had the most productive NFL career in terms of former M RBs the last couple of decades. I almost mentioned him, but his best college years were at Southern Cal.
October 13th, 2009 at 12:01 PM ^
The defense is under whole sale reconstruction, so it'll be a while till they're NFL caliber players there. But we're going to need to get them if we're ever going to be really good. I do believe Football as a whole is shifting to Offense with the rules, and you have to be able to outscore people, because they're going to score points. But having that Florida/USC defense that holds people to 20 rather than 30 is going to be the difference between good and great. And I don't think Rich Rod is a dummy, so he knows he's going to have to get players on that side of the ball. I just hope Robinson is the right guy for it, because Rich seems kinda hands off on that side and trust his coach (and I don't have a sample size big enough to say GERG GREAT or Booooo GERG yet).
And the rest of the spots are going to...shift. QBs and WR to RB....I think he's still shown he's going after the top O-Lineman in the country. It's just that in the League now it's the QB and WR that are flashy and get our attention, and RB become more servicable journeymen, unless you have someone as good as Peterson. And I think the NFL is a LOT further away from making spread QBs their PRIMARY QBs than we are at getting talent. It may happen, but not real soon either.
Hey, we could have recruited all 5 stars the last two years, and they'd STILL be 2-3 years away from even being able to go pro. Even the good players are young, as we all know, and the Pro prospects are the ones you mentioned. And a lot of our best players that ARE young from the last couple of years...may be great college players, but not real NFL prototypes. Tate, Vincent Smith, Odoms, BooBoo, Roh etc. aren't prototypical high draft pics. But they're good in college, and that's what matter the most. And there are some...the Martins, eventually Campbell, I have high hopes for Koger (I was a Tuman man, but this guy has the potential to be as good as an TE we've ever had)...not everyone is going to be shut out of the League. But we won't be QB U anymore, having taken that from Miami....though USC is probably locking that up anyway. All these "position schools" shift and vary, even if the name lingers longer than the good players sometimes....(I'd say OSU has had better LBs than PSU in the recent past; and USC may have won a Heisman with one, but USC RBs haven't lit up the League lately...but it varies).
October 13th, 2009 at 11:57 AM ^
Mallett staying at Michigan even if LC hadn't retired. Mallett pretty much has one foot out of the door. The hiring of RR gave him a good excuse to transfer.
October 13th, 2009 at 9:25 AM ^
You do NOT know that Mallet would not have stayed because HE WOULDN'T HAVE. As soon as he got here he wanted to leave. The players hated him, Lloyd threw transfer papers at him and he wanted to go home to the south. Then when Mustain transferred to USC he was GONE.
Why is this so hard to comprehend?
October 13th, 2009 at 2:33 PM ^
the false impression the "RR ran off Mallett" lingers in the minds of many.
Be vigilant!
Be vigilant!
October 13th, 2009 at 9:08 AM ^
got robbed of a TD in that game. I still don't see conclusive evidence that the ball wasn't crossing the line when his knee was down. Don't they know that the touchdown line extends past the out of bounds line?
After watching Braylon and Ted Ginn blow by the good NFL defenses, I was praying for someone in the booth to talk about the "lack of speed myth" that is still believed by many about the Big Ten. Oh, well - RR will do much to change the perception of our conference in a few years.
October 13th, 2009 at 2:37 PM ^
I think the goal line ends at the sideline, which is why players try to get any part of the ball across the goal line inside the pylon.
I too, would have liked to see BE get credit for that score; I was not convinced by any of the angles I saw that the on-field call should have been overturned.
I too, would have liked to see BE get credit for that score; I was not convinced by any of the angles I saw that the on-field call should have been overturned.
October 13th, 2009 at 9:18 AM ^
Or missing the old "Lloyd Carr days". I was frankly pissed off. It pisses me off to see all of these players completely kicking ass in the NFL and think about what SHOULD HAVE BEEN. We went 7-5 with Chad Henne, Mike Hart, Arrington, Manningham, long, et al. It is RIDICULOUS to think about the NFL talent that we had on our team that was completely squandered by Lloyd Carr.
So while you might be nostalgic and "miss all of those guys suiting up for Michigan" I will agree I still wish that we had that kind of talent on our team but I will not pine for mediocrity.
October 13th, 2009 at 9:43 AM ^
I'm proud that Henne, Long, Manningham and Edwards are succeeding in the NFL, but I am ashamed that the first three, along with Hart, lost to Appalachian State at home. That upset looks even more ridiculous and embarrassing in hindsight.
There will always be a place in my heart for Lloyd - he was competitive just about every year, obviously recruited well and gave us a dream season. But I have no second thoughts about him leaving.
October 13th, 2009 at 9:53 AM ^
I was more puzzled than pissed. Hell, I still can't figure it out.
October 13th, 2009 at 10:03 AM ^
Because 2005, see below. App St, Hart was hurt for half the game and we dominated whenever he was in, Manningham's head wasn't anywhere near Michigan Football at that time (and was causing problems within the ranks), and we Crable'd away a FG. As well a defense that continued to look stupid every time a QB could run. But still, there's never any excuse to lose to App St. I mean, they're far better than MSU slappy's like to give credit to, and would have been a mid-level Bowl Series team. It's a far better loss than Toledo in everything but perception. That App St team would have killed last year's awful Toledo team (and that's not a Lloyd vs. Rich thing...just how bad those teams are). App St last year would be more comparable to MSU's CMU loss this year. But we're not MSU, and at Michigan, you should ever lose to a Playoff Division team, and you shouldn't ever lose to a MAC team. Even the defending National Champs, or CMU, no more Toledo. It was definitely Lloyd's football low point of his career. But the season still ended with one of his biggest wins when everyone was finally healthy.
October 13th, 2009 at 9:54 AM ^
We went 7-5 because our offensive line was decimated that year by injuries. Everyone makes a huge deal about Molk (and rightly so), well, times that by 4. A sophomore QB and RB aren't going to look good behind that line. It was the worst streak of line injuries I've ever seen on a Michigan line (comparably bad to the 1993 line's inexperience). The receivers were only noobs in their first year after Braylon had left. (Avant was actually our best receiver, a GREAT possession receiver, but not a game breaker).
And if there was any justice in the universe, they should have been just another 8-4 team still...because the Alamo Bowl was the worst officiated game I've ever seen in my life. And that includes MSU 2001, which was a horribly called game BEFORE the last play. Then it just went to the bottom of the list. And it actually got passed up by that Bowl. That was disgraceful. (I mean, I didn't hear about it till after the game, but when the announcers who usually give refs the benefit of doubt are saying Michigan is getting screwed, it's bad).
It's funny how legitimate excuses Rod has (his quarterbacks suck last year, they're freshmen this year) excuse a lot of losses, but no one remembers what happened during Lloyd's seasons. I hope if in a few years we're just going to Rose Bowls and winning Big Ten titles and not winning the National Championship every other year, that people will remember why RichRod's record was dragged down by 2008 (2009?), and not suddenly think he was squandering talent as he carries us into "mediocrity". But I have a feeling if Rich is doing "just" what Lloyd did, people are going to be killing him for just being a really good coach.
October 13th, 2009 at 2:43 PM ^
it was like those replay officials were seeing television for the first time. I remeber watching that game and wondering if the Sun Belt Conference uses radio for replay analysis.
October 13th, 2009 at 11:39 AM ^
[REDACTED]
October 13th, 2009 at 10:41 AM ^
Have you ever gotten nostalgic for an old girlfriend, even after you have a new one? You see or hear something that reminds you of them, and you think of her fondly? It's the same thing. It doesn't mean you don't like your current girlfriend. You may still be in love with her. She may even be better and better for you in your opinion. But it doesn't mean you don't still think well of the good times you had together with the other girl when something reminds you of them. That's all. Missing Lloyd a little doesn't automatically mean you wish you had him than Rich.
Lloyd went out when he wanted, and was glad to see him go on his terms. When it came time to replace him, we got the best candidate possible out there (more due to luck than skill, but I'll take it). Not to harp on Lloyd too much, but "I like 'em both".
October 13th, 2009 at 2:53 PM ^
especially if your old girlfriend had gone to the same school as you, read the same books, was generally liked by most of your friends, was loyal to a fault.
Meanwhile your new girlfriend, a transfer from down South, runs with a completely different crowd, which doesn't mix perfectly with all of your friend, sometimes uses language which could make a sailor blush ...
Yeah, love the new girl, but it's ok to think of the good times gone by.
Meanwhile your new girlfriend, a transfer from down South, runs with a completely different crowd, which doesn't mix perfectly with all of your friend, sometimes uses language which could make a sailor blush ...
Yeah, love the new girl, but it's ok to think of the good times gone by.
October 14th, 2009 at 4:09 PM ^
...and really flesh it out well.
Yeah, and to not make it all love and roses for Lloyd, your old girlfriend was kinda conservative, could be boring at times, but you trusted her everywhere it counted. The new girl is wilder, and more fun, and maybe shocking at times...but you think is good at heart too.
And added kudos for your sign off. :D
October 13th, 2009 at 12:08 PM ^
Watching Miami-NY, I too was nostalgic for the days of LC. When I say nostalgic, I think fondly of the 1997 season though and the ass whoopin' we put on Florida in 2007. Plus, how could you not miss seeing Braylon Edwards, Chad Henne, David Harris, Jake Long, and others on the field for the Maize and Blue? Those guys played their balls off for us and I will always cheer for them, regardless of the team they play for.
However, then I saw the picture pages post by Brian and I'm also pretty excited about the future. I can't wait to see this offense develop over the next few years. The pro-style offense is nice to watch and easier to understand, but RR's offense is f'in brilliant.
October 13th, 2009 at 12:17 PM ^
Chad Henne throwing the ball to Ted Ginn Jr. and Brian Hartline in a game that Braylon Edwards played in was just the weirdest thing ever.
October 13th, 2009 at 1:03 PM ^
weird seeing Henne and Ginn celebrating together in the end zone
October 13th, 2009 at 1:16 PM ^
I didn't have mixed emotions - I'm a Miami fan and hate the Jets. I was worried that Braylon was actually making catches and not drops. He was looking good.
Henne throwing the bomb to Ted "Hands of Stone" Ginn was weird, but at least Ginn didn't drop this one.
It'll just be a bonus if U-M alums Henne & Long help my Dolphins be perennial playoff contenders, maybe even win a Super Bowl or more. Hopefully tOSU Ginn won't fuck it up. I look forward to the day when they cut him.
October 13th, 2009 at 2:56 PM ^
If there's a Michigan-loving WR god somewhere, he'll see to it that Teddy isn't cut (you want something for him, right?), he'll be traded to the Lions.