Michigan receivers diving for catches
As much as I wanted to avoid it, I had to take a quick look at MGoArchive's torrent of yesterday's game. Rudock's interceptions have already been overanalyzed, but the missed deep balls stood out to me.
Both Chesson and Darboh had deep balls thrown to them that were within an arm's reach, but were deemed as overthown by Rudock. Sure they probably would've been on Sportscenter Top 10 Plays because of the difficulty, but neither receiver even attempted to dive/lay out for the ball. The ball would've at least hit their hands.
From a hyped up fan watching the game, that takes it from "Rudock you f*%#in idiot" to "Wow that would've been/was an incredible catch" and I have more confidence in Rudock. Considering the 20 mph winds, the altitude, and lack of practice they weren't bad deep balls.
**Pics &Video embed below**
I remember growing up watching Terrell, Edwards, Avant, etc making spectacular diving grabs, or at least attempting to.
I guess my question is this a lack of effort, fear of injury? And also when was the last time we saw a great diving catch. I can't seem to remember the last one (granted I've tried to block most of the last 7 years out)
EDIT: The point of the thread wasn't to debate whether it was catchable or not, but I was genuinely curious why I can't remember the last time a Mich receiver even attempted to make a diving catch.
September 4th, 2015 at 8:28 PM ^
Chesson
Darboh
September 4th, 2015 at 8:33 PM ^
Chesson's arms could be twice as long and he still wouldn't reach that ball.
September 4th, 2015 at 8:40 PM ^
Chesson stutter-stepped just slightly a couple steps before the ball got to him. That might have been the difference between a reachable ball for a lay-out and what we saw. It seemed to me last year (or was it two years ago?) he had some trouble judging distance with his speed on some throws. I'm not totally sold on this one being as bad as it looks on Rudock.
September 5th, 2015 at 12:47 AM ^
His reaction to the stutter-steps was noticible and preceeded everyone else's reaction to the miss next to him on the sideline.
September 4th, 2015 at 8:38 PM ^
Darboh's could have been twice as short and still reached it.
September 4th, 2015 at 10:56 PM ^
could have reached those even if he had 'alligator arms'
September 4th, 2015 at 8:40 PM ^
The bottom pic of Darboh, I thought was a catachable ball. It wasnt perfect but, I felt he could have laid out and caught it. That Chesson pic on the top wasn't catchable, it speaks to the timing not being there between the QB and our receivers.
September 4th, 2015 at 10:29 PM ^
The pattern was full and everything else was in place. As these guys have been stating, had Chesson not slowed up when he turned to look for the ball it is probably a touchdown and he could've been under the ball. He might have had to dive. You have to see he just about got back to it and he was cruising. The timing is a little off.
September 4th, 2015 at 11:09 PM ^
I think you misheard that.
Ghost writer:
Ghost Rider:
September 4th, 2015 at 11:37 PM ^
Now there is a blast from the past. As a 90s kid Gooey Gus was the nightmare of my childhood.
September 5th, 2015 at 12:10 PM ^
if given more time Rudock could have gotten a little more air on teh Darboh ball allowing him time to adjust but he got crushed as soon as he released (looked like he had to get it off early).
Tough play for Rudock. Darboh could have reacted to the ball a little better once he turned his head around but it would have been a tought play. That hard step to the outside away from the ball before it arives killed his momentum.
Chesson through is a flat out miss. I'm not sure Chesson has the greatest hands to make a diving catch. If he ove he maybe gets a finger on it, not catchable unless you are Megatron IMO.
September 4th, 2015 at 8:50 PM ^
The Darboh throw he had to adjust his route, so he had lost much of his momentum. Essentially he got turned around by the bad throw. Dive wasn't going to get him there.
Chesson... just no. Like someone already said, you are't going to go any faster if you dive so he isn't catching that. Desmond didn't have to dive against ND because the ball was over his head. He had to dive because it was low and away.
September 4th, 2015 at 11:21 PM ^
yeah he def had to adjust. at the same time, darboh (and chesson for that matter) are not the greatest at tracking deeper throws without tipping off DBs or naturally plucking balls with their hands (both looked great in screen / hitch game but neither routinely pulls down balls with confidence while defended).
plus braden got flat out abused by the DT which forced rudock to release the ball early (and eat a huge hit) so thats also just a tough throw in that wind. if darboh were naturally better at tracking deep balls he mightve had a chance but i cant blame him for not making the play
September 4th, 2015 at 11:30 PM ^
I caught Braden struggling a lot while watching live, it'll be interesting to see just how bad it is in the UFR. Cole had some issues too
September 5th, 2015 at 12:51 AM ^
pathetic analysis.. Darboh's attempt could of easily been caught had he just fallen forward and stuck his hands out... not sure what game you watched, but these kids didnt put a lot of effort to catch these. Darbohs was a sure TD
September 4th, 2015 at 11:09 PM ^
Wow Braden got smoked on the first video, forcing Rudock to throw while getting lit up by a DT. Hard to put a ton of blame on Rudock for being a little off there.
September 4th, 2015 at 8:25 PM ^
Define "catchable."
September 4th, 2015 at 9:29 PM ^
And use Tacopants in the description.
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September 4th, 2015 at 8:27 PM ^
I would not call those balls catchable...
September 4th, 2015 at 8:32 PM ^
If there had been defensive contact with those throws made then there would have been pass interference, they would have thrown a flag.
They would have been very difficult catches, but we've all seen it happen.
September 4th, 2015 at 8:28 PM ^
We're and should have been caught! Fucking lay out and dive people! This is D1 big boy football and not junior all American. I was pissed
September 4th, 2015 at 8:30 PM ^
Those balls weren't being caught on a dive.
September 4th, 2015 at 8:49 PM ^
The Jr. All-American game...
September 4th, 2015 at 8:31 PM ^
I thought the last two were. The first one was iffy and I think too long either way
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September 5th, 2015 at 5:24 PM ^
The first one was a solid 5 yards over his head and long. Thats iffy in the same way my abs are kinda toned.
September 4th, 2015 at 8:32 PM ^
Lay off the juice
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September 4th, 2015 at 8:30 PM ^
Is that the daily double? What is something that never occurs, Alex.
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September 4th, 2015 at 8:32 PM ^
I'm not saying they would have been caught but I agree, at least make the effort. What is Desmond Howard's most famous catch? Doesn't happen if he doesn't dive!
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September 4th, 2015 at 8:32 PM ^
There was one that I thought had a chance to be caught, and another that would've looked close had they dove but been probably unwatchable for sure, but when it comes down to it... They were some pretty god awfully thrown balls. Now, he had some great throws too so I'm not saying he sucks, but kist those throws in particular, fucking terrible. DRob was terrible throwing it sometimes and even his deep balls looked better than that sometimes. At least he gave the receivers a chance. Again, not comparing him to denard or nothing.
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September 4th, 2015 at 8:32 PM ^
The darboh one was really bad IMO. That was like 2 feet in front him. Chesson would have been damn near impossible
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September 4th, 2015 at 8:40 PM ^
Wrong. The camera is deceptive in this instance--it looks close here, but the angle from the end zone shows it better. The ball is not only beyond Darboh but, crucially, several feet inside of him. He was nowhere near it.
September 4th, 2015 at 9:27 PM ^
The end zone view shows his trajectory headed right towards the ball. The ball hit at the goal line when his foot hit the 2 yard line. I think it could have been catchable
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September 4th, 2015 at 11:24 PM ^
I'm always amazed at how often something can look catchable, but when they show the 4th camera angle it becomes obvious that the ball is 4-6 feet away. The psychology of perception and wishful thinking play a role as well.
September 5th, 2015 at 12:52 AM ^
lmao wrong
September 4th, 2015 at 8:33 PM ^
Diving to catch a ball is like sliding into first base. At first glance it seems like it gets you there faster but it really doesn't compared to continuing to run at top speed. The only advantage is you can catch the ball lower, as it's about the hit the ground. That only really works when you're actually catching up to the ball and diving gives you that tiny bit more time to get there. All those catches were thrown on a line and still accelerating away from the WR as it past them. Diving would have done nothing to help.
September 4th, 2015 at 8:35 PM ^
Desmond Howard disagrees with you.
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September 4th, 2015 at 8:41 PM ^
Exactly. Can we get a gif of that.
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September 4th, 2015 at 8:58 PM ^
Notice how much air is under that pass. It's falling almost straight down as Des lays out for it. The dive there is helpful because it allows him to catch the ball right before hitting the ground, giving him the time it takes the ball to fall that 3 feet to catch up to it.
Both Rudock's passes were line drives and coming down at 45 degrees.
September 4th, 2015 at 11:12 PM ^
The long passes did not have enough air under them. They need to be "aired out" to give the receiver time to get under them. They can be pretty anywhere in the vicinity of they hang up long enough for the receiver to adjust - whether that means to dive or not.
September 4th, 2015 at 8:36 PM ^
Except for the Darboh play
September 4th, 2015 at 8:44 PM ^
I disagree with your assessment of those plays. I don't know if diving would have made a difference but I don't think Jake missed by that much.
September 4th, 2015 at 9:24 PM ^
Reshp1 is correct. Diving loses more catches than it makes, and the sliding into first analogy is apt. Those of us that were around when Desmond played may also remember that he did get some criticism for laying out for catches when he probably did not need to. (This does not include the famous ND catch)
For both catches under consideration, keeping running at full speed instead of slowing down and losing body control was the correct decision.
If you want to properly defend Rudock, point out his first throw to Perry. Perry flat out went in the wrong direction, and the subsequent int gave people the idea that Rudock's throw was off. And Perry could have done a lot more to come back to the ball on the third int. However, there was nothing that the receivers could have done on the overthrows. By running full speed, the receivers gave themselves the best chance at the reception.
September 4th, 2015 at 9:45 PM ^
I'm not aware of any evidence for what you're saying, but there's plenty of evidence that diving is beneficial in the form of every baseball outfielder, soccer keeper, and football receiver who is going all-out for a ball.
There's a psychology to diving. At some point, maybe when you're ten yards or so from the ball, you tell yourself, "eff it, I'm catching this," and commit then to laying out. Or you don't.
September 4th, 2015 at 10:05 PM ^
Baseball dives are usually coming in for a ball. You hardly ever see a guy lay out for a ball hit over their head, they almost always catch those in full stride over the shoulder.
Soccer goalie is a totally different situation since they're lunging from a stationary stance.
September 4th, 2015 at 10:12 PM ^
Maybe. As a baseball outfielder, if a ball is hit directly over your head and you catch up to it at full sprint, you also have a brick wall to consider when making the decision to dive or not. Regardless, in neither of these cases is the ball coming directly over the receiver's head.
September 4th, 2015 at 10:15 PM ^
The key is if the receiver is gaining ground on the ball or not. Like I said, diving doesn't make you faster, it buys you more time. If you're not gaining on the ball, all the time in the world isn't going to help you. Both those balls look to me like they are going past the receiver, not simply that they didn't get there in time. Admittedly the Darboh one looks very close, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he made a full effort, as he did all game long.
September 4th, 2015 at 10:13 PM ^
"You hardly ever see a guy lay out for a ball hit over their head"
Yes, b/c it has to do with trajectory...
September 4th, 2015 at 10:19 PM ^
That's exactly my point. Those passes were on going faster than the receivers were running as it went by them. The trajectory, as you put it, was too flat to make diving helpful. The famous Desmond vs ND catch had a lot more air under it, a higher trajectory, which means he was able to run under it. The dive helps because he has a split second more to catch up to the ball compared to trying to catch it at waist level.
September 4th, 2015 at 10:31 PM ^
"That's exactly my point."
As I don't really pay attention to poster's names (especially the ones that look like a password to Ashley Madison), I can see from your other posts that what I referenced was taken out of context.