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MI DB Raymon Taylor Gets Offer

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December 18th, 2010 at 3:48 PM
#302
KinesiologyNerd
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Joined: 02/10/2009
MGoPoints: 7699
MOAR DBs

At this rate our team will be composed solely of corners and strong safeties.

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December 18th, 2010 at 3:54 PM
(Reply to #2) #303
Lutha
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Some of them will need to

Some of them will need to bulk up to play NT

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December 18th, 2010 at 3:57 PM
(Reply to #6) #304
KinesiologyNerd
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No need, GERG is planning to

No need, GERG is planning to run a 0-0-11. It's never been tried before, but it has to work!

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December 18th, 2010 at 8:16 PM
(Reply to #2) #305
umchicago
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Joined: 02/05/2009
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well

if he's a legit 4.43 40, i take him for sure.  the current commits will have to compete and someone may end up transferring down the road.

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December 18th, 2010 at 3:49 PM
#306
Papochronopolis
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Can Raymon play FS?  If so he

Can Raymon play FS?  If so he would be another nice addition to this class

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December 18th, 2010 at 3:53 PM
(Reply to #3) #307
DGDestroys
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Sam Webb was talking about

Sam Webb was talking about how he was a VERY physical corner, and could easily play FS at the next level

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December 18th, 2010 at 4:13 PM
(Reply to #5) #308
ademock27
Joined: 01/10/2010
MGoPoints: 293
judging by

what he did to Arnett on the first play of his highlight video, ya, I'd say he's physical.

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December 18th, 2010 at 3:52 PM
#309
Dallas Wolverine
Joined: 01/04/2010
MGoPoints: 937
Another

DB! We need to get after some OL and DL prospects IMO. Congrats to the kid though.

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December 18th, 2010 at 5:18 PM
(Reply to #35) #310
DGDestroys
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For Pete's Sake

If we're gonna hate on Dave Brandon, can we at least limit it to threads that relate to Brandon and not just bring it up for kicks and giggles? This fanbase is absurd sometimes

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December 18th, 2010 at 3:59 PM
#311
Jon Benke
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we need more LBs and DTs

I don't think we need another DB, unless it's Wayne Lyons.

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December 18th, 2010 at 4:04 PM
(Reply to #9) #312
UMxWolverines
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Dude

Did you watch our DBs this year?

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December 18th, 2010 at 4:09 PM
(Reply to #12) #313
SalvatoreQuattro
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Dude, they were freshmen

How is Taylor going to change inexperience?

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December 18th, 2010 at 4:19 PM
(Reply to #19) #314
JayZ1817
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They won't add experience but

They won't add experience but will add to the depth. And after seeing what all has happened with Michigan defensive backs in recruiting, injuries, and other things I'll gladly take as many as we can get.

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December 18th, 2010 at 4:39 PM
(Reply to #25) #315
Jon Benke
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And ignore other positions of

And ignore other positions of need?

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December 18th, 2010 at 5:18 PM
(Reply to #31) #316
PurpleStuff
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No one is ignoring other positions

We have three linebackers (Kinard, Morgan, Jones) committed already and are going after another hard in Frost.  As far as young guys go, Robinson, Furman and Hawthorne are more likely to see the field as linebackers going forward than they are in the secondary.  Signing Taylor is not going to prevent us from signing a DT either.

Our overall numbers are still low at DB (we'll have at most 4 guys in the junior/senior class next year assuming both Williams and Woolfolk come back from injuries).  As such, signing five guys this year for a spot where you play 4/5 at a time makes perfect sense.

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December 18th, 2010 at 5:51 PM
(Reply to #37) #317
Jon Benke
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all good points!

Except I am not too high on Kinard, sorry.

Lets hope Frost goes BLUE for Christmas!

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December 18th, 2010 at 5:56 PM
(Reply to #45) #318
jg2112
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Don't forget as well that the

Don't forget as well that the initial thoughts re: defensive back recruiting were that MICH needed 2-3 this year BEFORE Turner and Emilien decided to leave the school. I don't think getting up to 5 DBs is inappropriate, and there are scholarships specifically available for DBs at this point.

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December 18th, 2010 at 6:27 PM
(Reply to #37) #319
Magnus
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Kinard hasn't been offered by

Kinard hasn't been offered by Michigan for the Class of 2011.

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December 18th, 2010 at 6:29 PM
(Reply to #48) #320
UMICH1606
Joined: 02/21/2010
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Yeah, I have no idea why the

Yeah, I have no idea why the recruiting services keep listing Kinard as a commit since he is not likely to get offered for 2011.

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December 18th, 2010 at 6:27 PM
(Reply to #37) #321
UMICH1606
Joined: 02/21/2010
MGoPoints: 3157
Robinson has been practicing

Robinson has been practicing at FS since after the PSU game, and it sounds like he may have finally found a home.

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December 18th, 2010 at 6:46 PM
(Reply to #25) #322
michfanfromct
Joined: 12/18/2010
MGoPoints: 177
Agreed...

100% agreed.  With what has happened to our DB's lately, I would be more than happy to get a physical athlete like Taylor!

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December 18th, 2010 at 4:26 PM
(Reply to #12) #323
Jon Benke
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yes, and did you see how young they were

I think our DB depth is far better than our DT/LB depth.

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December 18th, 2010 at 10:50 PM
(Reply to #12) #324
UMMAN83
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Agree. I'd take 6 based on the failout from past years ... plus

more DTs and LBs

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December 18th, 2010 at 4:01 PM
#325
LSA Superstar
Joined: 10/03/2009
MGoPoints: 2945
I've mentioned this before -

I've mentioned this before - I know a HS coach in Michigan who has said many times that if he could have ANY two players in MI he'd take Taylor and Rawls. ANY - that includes Zettel, Thomas, Arnett, all of them.

Don't know about it myself but I'd love to see both Taylor and Rawls in maize and blue. Hope they decide that we're the best choice.

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December 18th, 2010 at 4:08 PM
(Reply to #10) #326
UMICH1606
Joined: 02/21/2010
MGoPoints: 3157
Rawls is a heck of a player.

Rawls is a heck of a player. He is severely undervalued. If Justice Hayes is ranked as high as he is, than Thomas Rawls deserves to be that high and then some if Justice is the standard at his ranking. I wouldn't be surprised at all at the programs that would jump in on Thomas if he ever gets a test score.

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December 18th, 2010 at 4:16 PM
(Reply to #10) #327
ademock27
Joined: 01/10/2010
MGoPoints: 293
my response would be

to then ask that coach if he has seen each one of these men in action live.  Plus, I think the Michigan coaches are probably better judges of talent that one high school coach.

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December 18th, 2010 at 4:07 PM
(Reply to #11) #328
mejunglechop
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I know that's a joke, but it

I know that's a joke, but it doesn't make sense since MSU isn't recruiting him.

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December 18th, 2010 at 4:04 PM
#329
mlGOBLUE
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You can see he's an athlete

You can see he's an athlete - stays with his man, but really closes on the ball fast once its thrown.  At least I think that was the ball - pretty fuzzy video.

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December 18th, 2010 at 4:06 PM
#330
mejunglechop
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No disrespect to Taylor, but

No disrespect to Taylor, but how about we offer a goddamn nose tackle or three. If we don't get someone in this class we will have at most 2 players physically capable of playing the position when Martin graduates. Even before you account for the possibility of injuries and attrition that's a recipe for disaster. 

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December 18th, 2010 at 4:12 PM
(Reply to #14) #331
UMICH1606
Joined: 02/21/2010
MGoPoints: 3157
True NT's are pretty hard to

True NT's are pretty hard to find. Kids walking around in H.S. at 300 lbs are few and far in between, and the only DT's that are uncomitted that they haven't offered, or are worthy of an offer are Mason Fuller and Kevin McReynolds. It is not a terribly deep year for DT's this year, and you can't make them come here just because they have an offer. I am sure the staff would love a DT or too.

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December 18th, 2010 at 4:18 PM
(Reply to #21) #332
SalvatoreQuattro
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You still need bodies

I expect UM to offer a lower rated guy for depth purposes.

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December 18th, 2010 at 4:21 PM
(Reply to #24) #333
UMICH1606
Joined: 02/21/2010
MGoPoints: 3157
You sniped my edit. The

You sniped my edit. The coaches would love a DT or two!

 

I guess we will disagree on that. I would not offer just anybody just for a warm body.

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December 18th, 2010 at 4:29 PM
(Reply to #26) #334
SalvatoreQuattro
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Joined: 11/30/2010
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You need bodies

You have to have some depth. Since UM rarely recruits JCs', they have to take a chance on a low ranked guy.

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December 18th, 2010 at 5:31 PM
(Reply to #29) #335
PIJER
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Joined: 07/12/2009
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Before blowing a scholarship

Before blowing a scholarship on someone that I thought most likely couldn't compete on this level, I would bring them in as a preferred walk-on. If I were to be pleasantly surprised by the talent level and work ethics of said recruit, I would then extend a scholarship to them.

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December 18th, 2010 at 5:46 PM
(Reply to #41) #336
Magnus
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Joined: 07/17/2008
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That's generally not an

That's generally not an option.  300-pounders who are even mildly athletic get snapped up by colleges because they're so rare and so necessary.  You can't convince a 300-pounder to walk on, because he'll have an offer from somewhere else to play for free.

When you get 300-pounders as walk-ons at a place like Michigan, they're either 6'8" behemoths who aren't very athletic or kids like the 5'6" Dominique Ware (who wasn't 300 lbs. coming out of high school, anyway) who's too short to contribute.

If you want a 300-pounder, you're going to have to shell out a schollie.

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December 18th, 2010 at 8:05 PM
(Reply to #44) #337
umchicago
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ya

that's pretty obvious.  it's like asking a 7 footer with limited bball skills to walkon.  ain't gonna happen.

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December 18th, 2010 at 4:50 PM
(Reply to #21) #338
mejunglechop
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I hate to sound spoiled and

I hate to sound spoiled and unrealistic, but the fact that we find ourselves in this position is incredibly frustrating. We could have had Dequinta Jones in 2009, we should have had Jonathon Hankins last year. Instead, we're looking at having two options at maybe the most structurally important position on our defense. Those options are, a recently converted guard and a boom-bust sort who reported in 60 pounds overweight. Either could transfer or get injured. Any recruits brought in next year's class would be true freshmen and almost certainly useless. Michigan's name gets the coaches in a lot of doors and it's not the hardest place to sell. The coaches just have to fucking sell it. I won't break out "UNACCEPTABLE" yet, but going home empty handed in this class is not an option.

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December 18th, 2010 at 5:20 PM
(Reply to #32) #339
Lutha
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Maybe the lack of NTs will

Maybe the lack of NTs will necessitate the switch to a 4-man line, which many of us would want anyway

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December 18th, 2010 at 6:29 PM
(Reply to #39) #340
mejunglechop
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Maybe, but even then we'd

Maybe, but even then we'd still need a DT.

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December 18th, 2010 at 7:46 PM
(Reply to #14) #341
Bodogblog
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Joined: 06/08/2010
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3

Q. Washington, Ash, Talbott



But yup, we'd be in a lot better shape right now w/ Hankins. I know you've been on this in the past. No question a DT or two would round out what is shaping up to be a great class

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December 18th, 2010 at 7:49 PM
(Reply to #62) #342
mejunglechop
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Joined: 07/09/2008
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Talbott is 260 pounds. I

Talbott is 260 pounds. I don't think he'll ever get bigger than 285 and that's too small for nose tackle. 

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December 18th, 2010 at 8:13 PM
(Reply to #63) #343
Bodogblog
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Joined: 06/08/2010
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Patterson is 276 lbs, same height

Sagesse is 289, one inch taller



Both spelled Martin at different times. Probably too early to predict Talbott's max weight, but he's an interior guy

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December 18th, 2010 at 8:27 PM
(Reply to #66) #344
mejunglechop
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Joined: 07/09/2008
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In a 4 man front he's either

In a 4 man front he's either a DT or the SDE, in a 3 man front he's definitely an end. Patterson and Sagesse both played in Martin's place, but neither was big or strong enough to do so capably. Even Martin is small at 300 pounds to anchor a 3 man front. He's successful at that weight because he's very quick and freakishly strong for his size.

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December 18th, 2010 at 8:46 PM
(Reply to #68) #345
Bodogblog
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4 man line then

whoo-hoo!

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December 18th, 2010 at 4:07 PM
#346
briangoblue
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Joined: 08/03/2009
MGoPoints: 5126
Never Forget!

We should've learned by now that you can't have too many DBs. Congrats to Raymon. I would recommend the coaches not assemble all of our dbs in one place at the same time, lest lightning strike or a flash flood occur. There's still plenty of room left in this class for DTs, a kicker, etc.

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December 18th, 2010 at 4:31 PM
(Reply to #15) #347
turd ferguson
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Joined: 12/09/2009
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i don't know, man. a lot of

i don't know, man. a lot of the things that happened to our DBs could have happened to any position group, so by that logic, you can't have too many of anything. except that you only get so many scholarships. i always cringe when people get excited for lower-ranked recruits at already covered positions who "build depth." depth in one area often means lack of depth in another (or less than top-level talent).

p.s. i'm not targeting this at raymon at all. i only have congrats for the kid.

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December 18th, 2010 at 4:08 PM
#348
ken725
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Joined: 10/26/2008
MGoPoints: 27659
I'm officially confused. I

I'm officially confused. I thought that I had a good picture of what our class would look like, but not anymore. I trust the coaches know what they are doing.

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December 18th, 2010 at 4:10 PM
#349
neoavatara
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Joined: 08/01/2009
MGoPoints: 1726
Taylor

Is totally undervalued.  This kid would have been a 4* across the board if he had been healthy.  He has the size and speed to play safety, and could play corner.  I still think that we are looking at taking two more in the def backfield...possibly Taylor and Lyons?  That would shore up what is a very shallow bench.    And with, what, 8 more spots potentially available, we have plenty of space for some big guys on the front line....one could hope.

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December 18th, 2010 at 10:47 PM
(Reply to #20) #350
UMMAN83
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Joined: 11/26/2009
MGoPoints: 1491
RR knows talent. Ask Denard.

Pluse he knows what so-called talent  should hit the pavement.

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December 18th, 2010 at 5:17 PM
#351
AnthonyThomas
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Joined: 11/13/2010
MGoPoints: 15138
I know people want

I know people want linebackers and d-linemen, but it's not as if the coaching staff haven't pursued those positions. RR's banking on Zettel, who will go blue if RR is retained, and Frost, who from all reports projects to be a stellar linebacker, appears to be taking a similar approach. Time will tell with those guys.

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December 18th, 2010 at 10:45 PM
(Reply to #36) #352
UMMAN83
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Joined: 11/26/2009
MGoPoints: 1491
uuummmm Go Blue

So one guy is a life-long Michgan fan but might go green ... what?  The other wants to get a great education and has doubts about Michigan ... what !!!!  Does not compute but hey they are kids.

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December 18th, 2010 at 5:23 PM
#353
Magnus
Magnus's picture
Joined: 07/17/2008
MGoPoints: 122999
I'm not quite sure I

I'm not quite sure I understand this offer.

Lots of cornerbacks coming in already.  Some movement probably has to happen (one of these corners to FS, one of them decommitting, one of them playing WR, something).

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December 18th, 2010 at 6:04 PM
(Reply to #40) #354
jg2112
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Joined: 11/25/2008
MGoPoints: 7764
Hypothesis,

Hypothesis, Magnus:

Woolfolk, Floyd, Talbott and Avery are the four CBs predominantly being counted on for the 2011 season. Their freshmen 'backups'/redshirt candidates are Crawford/Countess.

Perhaps Christian is considered fifth in line, but also will be competing with Vinopal for the deep safety position (Carvin as well). Their backup/redshirt guy could be Taylor if he commits.

At the Kovacs position, maybe ... Carvin is the backup, and GERG Brown is the 3rd in line.

At the Cam Gordon position, Thomas Gordon is the backup, with Furman as a co-backup for 2011.

I'm also trying to make order of out this DB chaos.

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December 18th, 2010 at 7:42 PM
(Reply to #47) #355
TIMMMAAY
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Joined: 09/08/2008
MGoPoints: 41349
I thought you didn't care

I thought you didn't care about recruiting...

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December 19th, 2010 at 1:03 PM
(Reply to #61) #356
jg2112
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Joined: 11/25/2008
MGoPoints: 7764
I don't care who commits, but

I don't care who commits, but if you look at the information I lined up above, once they're committed, then I think it's appropriate to start looking at how they fit in.

Sam Webb's gut feelings, recruit's press conferences and tweets, their top fives, etc., are what I can do without.

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December 20th, 2010 at 12:46 PM
(Reply to #74) #357
TIMMMAAY
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Joined: 09/08/2008
MGoPoints: 41349
I was only joking.

I was only joking.

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December 18th, 2010 at 5:34 PM
#358
BlueinLansing
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Joined: 09/01/2009
MGoPoints: 16425
I can't believe

people are complaining about Michigan having too many DB's in this class.

 

Remember what the depth chart looked like this season.

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December 18th, 2010 at 6:32 PM
#359
Mich1993
Joined: 12/08/2010
MGoPoints: 760
Free safety.

I'm betting the coaches think he can play free safety.  I'll take all the talented FS and DT players we can get.

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December 19th, 2010 at 11:48 PM
(Reply to #52) #360
Mich1993
Joined: 12/08/2010
MGoPoints: 760
CB or FS

Hmmm.  I took a closer look at our CBs and safeties, and Taylor looks more like a corner if you only look at height, weight and 40 time.

 





DB Height Weight 40 time
Woolfolk 6-0 186  
Floyd 6-0 183  
Avery 5-9 165 4.55 timed Scout combine
Talbott 5-10 175 4.47 Two Fakes
Christian 6-1 172 4.55 (One Fake) and 4.68 not Fake
Hollowell 5-8 125? 4.66 not fake and 'track notoriously slow'
Brown 5-10 180 4.4 one fake (Sept 2009)
Countess 5-10 175 4.47, 4.48 one fake (prob combine verified)
Crawford 5-10 180, 185 4.47 per recruit video, Brian guessed mid 4.5
Raymon Taylor 5-10 175 4.43
       
Vinopal 5-9 1/2 178 4.56 as HS freshman, 4 fakes
Van Slyke 6-2 206  
C Johnson 6-1 195 4.68 neg 1 fake
Robinson 6-1 204 4.6
C Gordon 6-3 208 4.6 two fakes
T Gordon 5-11 208  
Hawthorne 6-0 202 4.72
Kovacs 6-0 200  
Simmons 6-0 197  
Furman 6-2 192 4.39 wind aided fast track

The heights and weights come from the Spring '10 roster for anyone arriving earlier than this years true freshman.  All the 40 times and the heights and weights come from 'hello' posts except Taylor which is from Scout. 

Based on this, Floyd and Christian look like the best fits for a CB moving to free safety.  Crawford also has the size and speed if he's got the mentality.

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December 20th, 2010 at 7:23 AM
(Reply to #75) #361
Magnus
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Joined: 07/17/2008
MGoPoints: 122999
The coaches want him to play

The coaches want Taylor to play CB.

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December 18th, 2010 at 6:48 PM
#362
cadillacjack333
Joined: 10/27/2010
MGoPoints: 284
Offer to Commitment time

Here is my question to everyone.  If you make an offer this late in the recruiting season, how long does it usually take for one of these recruits to say yes?

I guess I am surprised that it takes the recuits this long to say yes.  I wonder if it took a recruit that long to say yes to Bo / Lloyd etc.

FWIW, I think he stays and I think we end up with a top 15 class.

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December 18th, 2010 at 7:13 PM
(Reply to #54) #363
Magnus
Magnus's picture
Joined: 07/17/2008
MGoPoints: 122999
I guess I am surprised that

I guess I am surprised that it takes the recuits this long to say yes.  I wonder if it took a recruit that long to say yes to Bo / Lloyd etc

He's had the offer for about a day.  I'm sure Bo and Lloyd had plenty of recruits who took a day or longer to decide.

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December 18th, 2010 at 6:54 PM
#364
Don
Don's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 70328
We could have had Dequinta Jones in 2009,

You make it sound like we turned Jones down. Didn't he decommit from us virtually on signing day?

I agree that we screwed up on Hankins. If he was good enough to merit an offer from OSU, then he was good enough to have gotten an offer from us much earlier, instead of when it was too late.

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December 18th, 2010 at 7:14 PM
(Reply to #55) #365
Magnus
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Joined: 07/17/2008
MGoPoints: 122999
Yes, Jones decommitted on

Yes, Jones decommitted on signing day.  He was "committed" to Michigan but sent his LOI to Arkansas.

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December 18th, 2010 at 7:38 PM
(Reply to #55) #366
mejunglechop
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Joined: 07/09/2008
MGoPoints: 6619
You're right, he turned us

You're right, he turned us down. Jones was a recruiting battle we could have, maybe even should have won, but we lost it, and that's kind of the point. We've lost enough recruiting battles that now we're in a pretty sticky situation. And you're right, Hankins was way worse because 1) having lost Jones before we knew we needed a NT and 2) he was an athletic 320 pounder with offers from OSU and Florida and 3) he grew up in our backyard and desperately wanted to come here, so much so that he held out for most of the recruiting cycle for an offer.

The basis for this was his lack of conditioning. Meanwhile we recruit a guy from florida whose high profile suitors have backed away after questioning his motor. This guy shows up to fall camp 60 pounds heavier than advertised and Hankins contributes on OSU's 2 deep as a true freshman. Gah, just gah.

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December 19th, 2010 at 4:19 AM
(Reply to #60) #367
Captain Obvious
Joined: 03/17/2009
MGoPoints: -465
Wow, stop whining.

Predicting the work ethic of 300 pound 17 year olds isn't the easiest thing in the world.  Apparently Hankins came to Michigan's camp and the coaches saw him sucking wind and not giving full effort, right in front of them.  He wasn't worth an offer at that point.  They told him to get in shape, he did, Michigan offered, but OSU was too far ahead at that point.  UM's handling of his recruitment is only a mistake in hindsight.

You win some and you lose some.  The coaches aren't prescient.

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December 18th, 2010 at 7:19 PM
#368
john22
Joined: 06/09/2010
MGoPoints: 1027
A

DB and he's from the state,and people are saying we have enough DB'S.I didn't expect to hear this.Also Showers is back on the market maybe,would we take him to.GO BLUE!!!

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December 18th, 2010 at 7:32 PM
#369
cadmus2166
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Joined: 01/04/2010
MGoPoints: 1233
The way we lose CB's to injury and attrition

Probably a good offer.

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December 18th, 2010 at 8:00 PM
#370
toomer18
toomer18's picture
Joined: 02/25/2010
MGoPoints: 344
We should make a run at

We should make a run at Valdez Showers.  With the change down in Florida, he is having second thoughts.  We could have got his commitment months ago, but the staff was slow to offer.  I think if we give him enough attention we could get him back.

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