META: How Might New Points Rules Impact Behavior?

Submitted by Mmmm Hmmm on
Now that the initial glow of having a points system has faded to "warm summer day" from "ten feet from the sun," I thought it would be interesting to look at what type of behavior the new system might incentivize and what effects it might have. Here are my thoughts; I am looking forward to your reactions.

1. Comments designed to be popular and resonate with the community will lead to very quick points increases. Because each upvote is 2 points, a poster who has his/her finger on the pulse of the blog will be able to ascend much more rapidly in points than a "volume poster" whose posts are upvoted as much.

Corollary 1: Posting endlessly in game day threads (where responses are rare--and up votes likely will be going forward) will have less impact on points, relatively speaking, than offering an insightful snowflake post or two.

Corollary 2: I do not believe that mgoblog suffers from a lack of diversity of opinions (or a "hive mind"). However, because a highly upvoted post could have a huge points impact, some posters may go for popular opinions or jokes over more contrarian opinions. Also, those with popular opinions who can articulate then well will probably become the biggest point holders over time.

2. The primary justification for adding a points system according to my unscientific survey of user requests (ie my memory) was to reduce trolls and trolling. Although the justification was based on down voting, trolls (especially newer trolls) will also be harmed by being passed quickly in points by more responsible posters that get upvoted.

3. The point threshold for "respected posters" in posters minds (which is an individualized subjective standard) will likely gradually increase as point totals increase more rapidly.

I want to also note that I am presenting these for discussion, and not as a criticism or endorsement. Brian mentioned that the point system was not set in stone, so I figured this could start the discussion.

(Also, please excuse the lack of formatting and typos--posting from an iPhone)

gbdub

December 13th, 2013 at 12:59 PM ^

And that's an advantage of the new system vs no voting. There are enough "good guy" posters willing to up vote someone who was unfairly negged that trolling down voters can be offset.

Without the votes, the "down vote troll" guy would instead post a stupid "you're a moron" comment that could not be punished without mod action (since responding would feed the troll).

JHendo

December 13th, 2013 at 12:16 PM ^

Hive mind is already being reduced.  Now that my pretend points are at risk if I neg someone, I've found myself actually trying to relate with an opinion contrary to my own, whereas before, I'd rashly neg them and move on.  So I certainly hope this new point system is in fact encouraging contrarian (yet reasonable) opinions.

As for your 3rd point, I did and still do support an increase in minimums.  With the unlimited posbang system, a troll or an inexperienced mgoblogger can sit in the shadows, post 10 or so superficially great comments and then be able to create terrible threads.  I do believe that having to wait it out until they get to 500pts or so would take them long enough so that at the very least  they would then be familiar with the overall feel of the blog and would be able to properly sympathize with the general populous (a MGoStockholm Syndrome, so to speak...).

Raoul

December 13th, 2013 at 12:29 PM ^

I don't know that an increase in the minimum to start a thread is really needed. While the scenario you raise is certainly possible and may ocassionally happen, I don't remember that being a big problem the last time this moderation system was used here. This system isn't perfect, but it does cut down on trolling within threads, which should free up the mods to concentrate on quickly recognizing and deleting "terrible threads."

mackbru

December 13th, 2013 at 12:20 PM ^

Good for removing trolls. But bad in a big way, in that the point system ends up leading to mob-rule and group-think. Minority dissent, or anything that goes against the common wishes and desires of the average M fan, inevitably gets voted down. Typically, down-voters say they're doing so because the dissenter "didn't make a good argument" when, in many cases, the dissenter simply disagrees with them. 

And now, as evidence, witness the down-voting of this post.

mGrowOld

December 13th, 2013 at 12:28 PM ^

I would respectfully disagree.  You're always going to have disagreement (like right here for example) but your conflicting opinion to mine is not worth a downvote because there's nothing in your post that warrants it.  You've expressed your opinion and I've expressed mine. And I dont want to "spend" a point to downvote you.  I'll just type instead.

What it limits, IMO, are posts like "the point system sucks and everybody who disagrees is an idiot" type thoughts.  Those DO get hammered so my contention is disagreement becomes presented less disagreeably and our reasoned discourse becomes more civil because of it.

jmblue

December 13th, 2013 at 1:02 PM ^

You've expressed your opinion and I've expressed mine. And I dont want to "spend" a point to downvote you. I'll just type instead.

Your attitude is the right one to have, but I'm not sure everyone shares it.  We've already seen some posts get voted down despite not containing anything objectionable, because (apparently) people simply disagreed with them.    

Most posts should not get downvoted.  The reasons for downvoting should be basically:

 1) it's clearly trolling - the poster obviously is trying to just annoy people

2) it's overly hostile/argumentative

3) it has something offensive/objectionable

Most posts do not fall into these categories.

quigley.blue

December 13th, 2013 at 12:35 PM ^

I don't know anything about phsycology, but I'd guess that the "I lose one if you lose one" will actually help reduce the amount of people who just run through and generally disagree.  I don't know it it will improve constructive response, but I'd say that "reasonable but dfiferent" posts might have more protection than they used to.

gwkrlghl

December 13th, 2013 at 1:46 PM ^

I think the fact that it costs a point to -1 is actually helping. What you'll mostly see is popular opinions at like +20 and contrary opinions mostly unvoted upon. If you get too hung up on your mgopoint total, that would lead you as an individual to post 'group-think' ideas in the hopes of boosting your mgopoints but I haven't really seen that be the case amongst the MGoProletariat. There are contrary ideas being posted right now that aren't negged unless someone is just posting it in a 'dickish' way

bjk

December 13th, 2013 at 5:25 PM ^

the minus one for downvoting will make a difference in sorting out recreational downvoting from serious and principled downvoting. I'm not sure, but if I recall correctly, Mgoblog has never had downvotes cost a point before? If I'm right, the future stretches out beyond our imagination. Edit: Oops, now that I hit "save" I see the queue of comments all saying the exact same thing I'm saying. Well, here's one more vote for the minus one for downvoting.

GoBlueinEugene

December 13th, 2013 at 12:23 PM ^

Many of the posters in the past couple of days joined Mgoblog in 2010 or 2011 or earlier. Most of the trolls seemed to be recent joiners for the sole purpose of trolling. At least that's what I've noticed. I think this is a promising development. 

Bambi

December 13th, 2013 at 12:23 PM ^

I think we'll have a lot more POS-BANG threads now that POS-BANGING has more of a meaning. We already have two today and it's not even 12:30.

I think we'll also have a lot more posts that don't contribute much at all, just posts trying to be funny or with a Kate Upton gif because those always get upvoted.

Those are the two slight negatives I can think of.

I also think we'll have a reduction in trolls, because now that you can lose/gain points for the quality of your posts, peope will be less willing to be assholes/trolls because their imaginary internet points will disappear.

I also think we'll have a much faster rate of information being posted to the board. Everyone's going to want to be that person who posts the next "Hello: Jabrill Peppers"-esque post to get all those sweet, sweet, MGoPoints so people will be racing to post whatever information they can find that will get them those points. That potentially means more double-posts, but also more information being posted to the board.

a2_electricboogaloo

December 13th, 2013 at 12:32 PM ^

I think the amount of posbanging/posbang threads will likely decrease once the novelty of the new moderstion system wears off.

As for the reduction of trolls, is that really a bad thing?  The trolls have made the board nigh-unreadable for the last few months, we need a way to decrease them, and this seems to be a good way to do it.  Do i think we need to get rid of contrarian opinion? Absolutely not.  But people who troll just to troll do not add anything to the site.

a2_electricboogaloo

December 13th, 2013 at 12:42 PM ^

We generally have a friday open thread/posbang thread and a drinking thread later at night, and I'd guess in a week or two it'll return to the status quo there. Two posbang threads in one morning is weird, but the second is invoking patriotism, and thus will not be negged.

ish

December 13th, 2013 at 12:33 PM ^

the real tests will be tomorrow and the bowl game.  if the snowflakes threads don't end up in drunk rage territory, we'll know it's really worked.

BlueCube

December 13th, 2013 at 12:35 PM ^

for about a year until yesterday. I was tired of reading the fighting. I registered rather than leaving after seeing the effects of the voting system.

I look forward to getting to the 100 points so I can start threads. As an example I saw the top recruiting post on 247 yesterday but could not start a discussion on it. After I reach that level I won't worry about how many points I have. I will post when I feel I have somethng to contribute. I won't worry about being negbanged for an unpopular opinion but if I get to wrapped up in an argument and get negbanged I'd definitely reconsider my posting.

I think it's a great tool for the mods which is the important thing.

GRFS11

December 13th, 2013 at 12:37 PM ^

1)  Could actually encourage people to post who hadn't before, since incentives are up.

2)  Will DEFINITELY encourage most thoughtful posts, rather than "what is in my head at this very minute."  On second thought, so an internet board, maybe not, but one can hope.

TESOE

December 13th, 2013 at 1:50 PM ^

But seriously...in general this is a slow time for the site...I have to admit to following more closely just because of this change.    I'm less likely to post about meta than sports as I think most posters are.

I'm looking forward the BWW bowl to see if this changes behavior or traffic.

Tater

December 13th, 2013 at 12:45 PM ^

The points system has had the standard effect: less trolling and more groupspeak.  I'll take that trade-off any day.  

I don't like the tendency for people using the neg button for letigimate Michigan fans who disagree with their opinions, but if it makes the board more civil, it's worthwhile in the long run.

Space Coyote

December 13th, 2013 at 1:36 PM ^

Where I was going to respond to a user in agreement, but then caught myself from posting a completely inane response in favor of just upvoting them. In my mind, this has improved the quality of threads.

While points generally cause some form of groupthink, the nice thing is that I think there are enough responsible posters to understand how to properly use it, so maybe you don't come out the same as someone else, but once you get to a certain level you're talking relative numbers anyway.

Also, there will be a lot more gifs and funny pictures. There will probably be more poor attempts at humor in an effort to gain some upvotes. Trolls will be more limited. More posbang threads even after a while, but the number will decrease eventually. Probably more "Rah rah!" type posts, but those are better than negative nancy posts.

Lastly, in a socially weird but not at all surprising way, the point system will make people at least come together to a degree and not be such jerks to others. There is no longer a need to reply in snark to make a point for every post (guilty myself). There is no longer a need to get into a long chain of arguments, though that will still happen and sometimes rightfully if it's a good and legit debate. Strawman arguments will drastically decrease. And I can finally give a +1 to posters I agree with, which in turn makes me feel good like giving someone a Christmas present, and therefore I'm a happier person and post happier things, and generally the world becomes a nicer place because of a point system on a blog.

MadMonkey

December 13th, 2013 at 1:43 PM ^

threads on the first page of the Board.  Substance?  Non-existant.   Wild point accumulation?  Absolutely.   

In the end, we have revealed to Brian our true nature.  We are all point whores.

 

[EDIT:  Department or Redundancy Department.  I see that many posters have made the same point while I was wasting time looking for this spiffy image.]

Space Coyote

December 13th, 2013 at 1:48 PM ^

Have to keep the images and gifs in a favorites folder or something, otherwise people will beat you to the punch. Welcome to the new age, to the new age, welcome to the new age, of the point system. It's dare I say, radioactive (that didn't make any sense, but for some reason when I started type "welcome to the..." the rest came out, for that I am sorry).

gwkrlghl

December 13th, 2013 at 1:50 PM ^

I think it's mostly a function of

a) novelty because it's been gone so long and

b) nothing is happening in M sports right now. Hockey's off for 2 weeks, basketball hasn't had anything of note happen in a few weeks, and football is off a few weeks.

Once basketball and hockey get into Big Ten play, I think you'll only see the normal weekly posbang

ldoublee

December 13th, 2013 at 5:00 PM ^

My hope is that the frequency and quality of the photoshopping and gif creation will get back to 2010 levels. The Lloyd Brady and Brian Cook photbombing photoshop threads were awesome. Lloyd Brady hugging Jesus in 'The Last Supper' brought me to tears.

uncleFred

December 13th, 2013 at 6:06 PM ^

Impact of a downvote is disproportionate on those with a relatively small number of point compared to those whose count is in four or more digits. I probably delete four or five comments for everyone that I submit because upon reflection I decide that it does not meaningfully contribute to the discussion. As a result I have relatively few points, so the decision to downvote someone requires a higher level of offensiveness than if I had thousands of points.

In the same fashion the impact should someone downvote one of my comments is far greater that it would be on someone with thousands or tens of thousands of points. So rather than adding a comment supporting an opinion with which I agree it is much quicker to simply give them an upvote and reduce the number of downvote targets from those who hold a contrary view.