Men’s basketball questions
First can anyone tell me in recruiting what Juwan looks for in his guards and PFs? It seems like none of these positions have specific skill sets to go along with what Juwan runs.
Can anyone tell me what has TWill gotten better at since he has arrived on campus?? I’m not trying to trash the kid either because I was excited when he signed because I thought by the time he was an upperclassman he would really round into form. He can’t get the basket, his shooting is sub par, can’t post up, and I don’t think he is a particular good rebounder. Maybe I’m not seeing something.
Juwan’s in game rotations?? I’m completely lost at what he is trying to do there.
Juwan runs really good stuff on offense but his roster is a mess.
January 7th, 2023 at 6:12 PM ^
Here’s what they need to do: Make shots.
defense has actually been getting better.
January 7th, 2023 at 6:17 PM ^
3/20 from 3 doesn’t exactly set the nets on fire
January 7th, 2023 at 7:37 PM ^
You don't recruit or bring in shooters, other than Baker who is brick city, then you can't expect to "make shots". If this offense is geared around outside shot taking, it's a BAD exploitation of the limited talent we have.
My guess is that our offense is broken and we settle for 3 pointers that are not really a part of what the coaches want. But we don't have guys who can get by their guy and finish and the guys who occasionally can are small and struggle to finish.
I just don't see how people say that he's running a great offense and the players aren't executing. College is not the NBA. You make you offense defense around the roster YOU built. Unless you're beiheim running that 2-3 zone, you adjust.
January 7th, 2023 at 9:29 PM ^
Kobe was recruited as a shooter. Dug is a freshman. Jett is a shooter. Barnes was recruited as a shooter.
The team was top 20 in KenPom offense last year, top 10 the year before, top 20 the year before that. There is no "scheme around not being able to hit open 3's". Baker was 0-3. Kobe was 0-3. Jett was 2-6. They're shooters. They missed.
Franz Wagner went 1-8 from 3 in the biggest game of the season. It happens.
Can you identify the sets and objectives the Michigan offense is trying to hit?
January 8th, 2023 at 1:54 PM ^
I can see that when multiple tries to get into the offense fail, as is typical, it becomes hero ball and jacked 3s at the end of the play clock. The problem is, that happens way too often. Couple that with yesterday's turnovers and you struggle to shoot and score enough points
January 8th, 2023 at 1:14 PM ^
It's a shame they couldn't hit anything in this game because I thought they played really well on defense and the boards. It was more than a little depressing to watch this game and just know they weren't gonna come back. I'm glad they made that run to cut to about 4-5 but that whole second half felt like it was stuck at a 10 point deficit. But it's good to see the effort was there.
January 7th, 2023 at 11:06 PM ^
Your analytics meme is a level 2 violation in football.
January 7th, 2023 at 6:18 PM ^
Don't mind me, I'm still devastated by the TCU loss - still trying to figure out if I'm watching this game on Monday.
😕
January 7th, 2023 at 6:34 PM ^
I can’t bring myself to watch bball yet. Still need time to recover from the TCU loss before I can emotionally handle watching us lose to teams like Central Michigan.
January 8th, 2023 at 10:34 AM ^
Well, you missed a couple of nice Big Ten wins while you were moping about CMU. Shake it off, it’s part of sports.
January 7th, 2023 at 6:39 PM ^
it was just such a dumb loss. what a missed opportunity. the only good news: every team that competes for championships regularly has years where they feel like they could have/should have won. That is this year for U of M.
January 7th, 2023 at 7:38 PM ^
People forget that. OSU was choke central for years
January 7th, 2023 at 9:40 PM ^
I’m glad they were this year too.
January 7th, 2023 at 7:57 PM ^
I agree.
But the way CFB is...too much has to go right.
Think about it. OSU played one bad half all season and if USC doesn't choke, OSU is in the Cotton Bowl playing Tulane. One half and they almost missed their shot.
With that said, if there was ever a year where Michigan has the smallest number of things they need to get to a national championship. It's next season. It's National Championship or bust.
Michigan can obviously do it without any of this (minus the staying healthy piece that every championship team has to almost luck into)...BUT, if Michigan...
- Naturally stays healthy, like any championship team
- Gets Blake Corum to return
- Gets 1 of Keegan or Zinter returns
- Gets the Green bros come back
- Gets a transfer DB or one of the young CBs develops into a legit starter caliber player
- Finds a B-level or better kicker
Do that, and Michigan is in the national championship next year. Seems like a lot, but if I created that list last year, it would be 3x as long.
McCarthy with a full offseason, Corum and Edwards keeping each other healthy by splitting the work load, the defense being knocked all summer and coming in with a chip on their shoulder.
Michigan should be preseason top 3 and shouldn't look back. But that brings me back to my original point, you can't play a bad half or it could be all over. Just an absolutely brutal sport. I love it, but brutal.
January 7th, 2023 at 8:12 PM ^
Don't forget WR. That position is starting to thin out a bit, with Ronnie Bell in the draft and Andrel Anthony in the portal. In order to realize the full potential from any improvements JJ makes as a passer, we'll need playmakers at WR.
At the end of the day though, bear in mind that although we caught some bad breaks in the TCU game, we caught some lucky breaks in the Illinois game that allowed us to pull that one out. Sometimes you avoid the upset by the skin of your teeth and you forget how close you came to total disaster, and sometimes your luck runs out and all you can think about is what might have been. That's just the way it is.
January 7th, 2023 at 8:23 PM ^
While the options aren’t proven commodities yet, this staff seems very high on the young receivers on the roster. Sounds like CJ is coming back, which allows Walker and Clemons to get acclimated to the other outside receiver spot and Morris can play slot while Roman Wilson splits time between outside and in the slot.
Again, the options aren’t necessarily proven. But the upside is there and I wouldn’t call the group “thin” by any stretch. Losing Bell sucks, but was expected and we have three guys entering year 2 who should take leaps. Losing Anthony and his half dozen catches on the year, im not concerned about.
January 7th, 2023 at 10:42 PM ^
I’ll take Johnson and Wilson returning all day every day. That’s a nice starting point. Given our offense, we only need about 2 other guys to step up and fill the void. We have plenty of young options.
January 8th, 2023 at 6:31 AM ^
I think we're fine at WR.
Johnson, Wilson, Clemons, Henning and Morris + Edwards is plenty in an offense that would have Corum/Edwards at RB and runs as much as well do.
Would I like a Q. Johnston or M. Harrison? Of course, but I don't think it's needed at all.
Hell, UGA's best WR is named Ladd.
Colston Loveland is the piece that matters the most and getting AJ Barner to push Hibner for the #2 spot is perfect. Those WRs I listed + Edwards will be enough.
...and I didn't even list Walker, who I see as the Caris LeVert of the bunch. Two right feet and no bulk as a freshman...looks like a baby deer. But in year 3? Might be the best on the team and headed for a one-and-done type of season.
January 8th, 2023 at 6:41 AM ^
Don't shoot the messenger. But there are some VERY unsubstantiated rumors that Domani Jackson flat out is or is "strongly considering" leaving USC to team up with Will Johnson at Michigan.
Message board and Twitter talk, probably based on a Twitter like or an IG post or something silly. But while I'm not going to let myself believe any of it is true...I AM going trick myself into thinking that this somehow takes some of the sting out of losing (cause OSU losing didn't do it). Just like I've tricked myself into thinking that if we get Corum and Zinter back...it will help.
I'll take what I can get! Come on, Domani!
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I'm only sharing because of my post above about CB - we need one, BAD (IMO). Johnson, Green and Jackson would be exactly what we need. 3 CBs who can start, then next year Green graduates and Jyaire Hill steps into the trio. This is my fantasy world and you may join at your own risk...warning: do not invest anything into it, but it's okay to daydream for a moment. It feels good.
January 7th, 2023 at 9:10 PM ^
Record it
Dont watch until you know TCU has a decent lead
Otherwise hard pass - DELETE
January 7th, 2023 at 11:04 PM ^
I love football and don’t have any hate for either team so I’ll watch. We let a golden opportunity slip thru our hands but that’s squarely on us. If TCU gets blown out, that’s on us for not beating them. If TCU wins, it’s on us for not beating them and having a legit shot at Georgia. Now if it were OSU and UGA, that would be a different story.
January 8th, 2023 at 7:25 AM ^
I won't be watching. If Georgia wins, it's like, "Well, of course." But if TCU wins, that means Georgia was beatable. And if we'd played as well as we had all season, it would have been us beating them.
Monday's game will be a reminder of a golden opportunity shot to hell. Don't need it.
January 7th, 2023 at 6:18 PM ^
Williams plays the 4 has no post game can’t shoot and has shown little ability to consistently do anything offensively other than get put backs. He is not a good athlete relative to other high D1 players so if his shooting doesn’t improve I am not sure what else he can do.
Juwans rotations are bad because he doesn’t have options, he has done a poor job of constructing a roster.
January 7th, 2023 at 6:41 PM ^
Jace Howard should be starting over Williams. And its nuts that he isnt. Almost like Howard is afraid to look like he favoring his kids. But Jace is a better defender, a hustler, and a guy who has shown a lot of shooting ability, albeit on very small numbers.
January 7th, 2023 at 6:46 PM ^
Jace Howard shouldn’t see the floor.
January 7th, 2023 at 6:50 PM ^
Jace shouldn't be playing, he's a borderline big ten player and that's being nice.
January 7th, 2023 at 6:52 PM ^
I don’t think he is a borderline Mac kid
I love how I get Neg for this. It’s ok I had people back in the day all pissed when I said Jerrett Smith couldn’t play in B1G or the MAC. Said the same about Ant Wright too.
January 7th, 2023 at 6:59 PM ^
He could play more but he wouldn’t be bringing an answer to what is hurting Michigan. He would be doing the same thing other guys are doing but he is not the answer to the issues Michigan is having.
January 7th, 2023 at 7:43 PM ^
Jace Howard seems like a great kid and I appreciate his effort, but he is not a Big Ten-level basketball player, nor is he a solution to any of Michigan's problems. The game moves too fast for him at the high major level.
If we're talking people to take some TWill minutes, I think you have to look at Baker.
January 7th, 2023 at 8:16 PM ^
I’d also look at Tschetter for minutes as well. He needs some more playing time with the starters though, can’t be in there with all them because we don’t do rotations for 7-8 minutes straight a half.
January 7th, 2023 at 8:14 PM ^
Other than hustling and being a good teammate, I don’t get the Jace should be starting stuff. I’m not sold on T Will either but Jace isn’t winning you these type of games. If anything, the game today probably fit Tschetter the best. Hauser isn’t overly athletic so T could have matched up with him. Hall is 6’8 220, Jett and or Baker would be fine on him as well.
You can’t play Reed and Hunter together because there is nobody as a backup center and that probably would work well together. there are way to many 6’7-6’8 forwards on the roster than are stuck between a 3 and a 4. Forget Houstan, if this team had Diabate this year, it would be a whole different story.
A team needs two point guards than can both play, four 2 and 3’s and four 4 and 5’s. That gives you a solid 10 and then you can use the last three spots for whatever you desire or for future depth.
January 8th, 2023 at 4:12 PM ^
i agree that baker should have seen a lot more minutes against msu, given the matchup against hauser. i know he had a crappy day, but who knows, given more minutes, his shot likely starts dropping.
unfortunately, twill has plateaued or even mildly regressed this year. this team desperately needs another consistent 3 point shooter and twill isn't it.
January 7th, 2023 at 11:12 PM ^
Fine with Williams coming off the bench but IMO Jace is not the answer as a replaclement. Tschetter or Baker fits better in the offense, especially when the strategy is to consistently double HD.
January 7th, 2023 at 7:32 PM ^
Almost 7 rebounds a game is a big help though on a team that doesn't rebound well.
January 7th, 2023 at 6:18 PM ^
"Juwan runs really good stuff on offense but his roster is a mess."
I agree with this statement.
By shot quality analytics, Coach Juwan Howard is generating good-to-great looks for his players. But the players aren't making them and that's a result of Coach Howard not emphasizing enough shooting.
One of the biggest indicators in today's era of basketball that a team will struggle to shoot the ball is FT shooting. It is highly correlated with mid-range and perimeter shooting.
After layups and dunks, corner 3s are the next best shot in the game. But our shooting on corner 3s (even wide open 3s) is bad. We need to improve in that regard.
January 7th, 2023 at 6:51 PM ^
Corner 3’s are open for a reason. They aren’t easy shots.
January 7th, 2023 at 8:02 PM ^
No, this is incorrect.
In the NBA, corner 3s are the generally the best 3rd best shots after a layup or dunk. Hence, there's an emphasis on getting 3-and-D players.
The reason they're open is because a guard/forward has driven into the lane off a screen on the perimeter. To stop the drive (and the layup/dunk), the defender on the corner man rotates over. A smart PG will kick out to the open corner man.
In the 2010 NBA Finals, Doc River was scheming up to give up corner 3s. That was pre-3 point revolution and the much improved shooting league-wide.
In today's NBA, if a team gives up open looks from corner 3 then that team (even if it's a contender) will likely get blown out.
See last night.
The 10-29 (25.6%) Charlotte Hornets blew out the 25-13 (65.7%) Milwaukee Bucks in Milwaukee by a final score of 138-109. Every team in the NBA can shoot now. We can thank the Golden State Warriors for raising the bar and forcing everyone else to adapt or get left behind.
January 7th, 2023 at 11:15 PM ^
Agreed, corner threes are the most practiced and the easiest to hit, if only because you have a finite amount of space to shoot the from.
January 8th, 2023 at 12:47 AM ^
Trying to wrap my feeble mind around this statement. In my own experience, I find it most difficult to hit long range from the corner mainly because there is no backboard to help on a bounce off the rim.
January 8th, 2023 at 12:59 AM ^
It's simply not true, that's why you are struggling. I think the person above is meaning it's the 3rd best shot because it's the easiest shot to get someone open for. It's absolutely not the 3rd easiest shot to make.
January 8th, 2023 at 10:52 AM ^
Actually you are the one who is wrong. Corner 3s are the most efficient type of 3pt shot in the NBA. There are 13 NBA teams that shoot above 39% on corner 3s; that's nearly half the league. And 6 of those 13 teams shoot 40%+ on corner 3s. Meanwhile, there is just one NBA team that shoots over 39% on 3s above the break. While the explanation for why corner 3s are the more efficient 3pt shot likely has to do with how open they are, that still doesn't disprove what the other poster said.
January 8th, 2023 at 4:19 PM ^
credit to golden state but john beilein was on the cutting edge of the 5 out philosophy. he had C/F deshawn sims jacking 3s upon his arrival. he led the team in 2007-8.
January 7th, 2023 at 9:55 PM ^
He recruited a shooter last year who everybody wanted to bench. Kobe Bufkin was a shooter out of high school. He’s encouraged Hunter to develop his three point shot.
I don’t think the issue is “Juwan doesn’t emphasize shooting”. Did Beilein “fail to emphasize shooting” in 2015 and 2016 when the team struggled? Or when Simpson, Teske, and Matthews shared the court?
No. In 2015 and 2016, Michigan struggled immensely because they lost guys who would have been upperclassmen and some recruits either didn’t hit (Donnal, Chatman) or took time to hit (Walton, Irvin, Wilson).
And yes, LeVert got hurt, but even with a healthy LeVert balling out, Michigan started 6-4 including a loss to NJIT.
I’m not saying this means Juwan is going to bounce back like Beilein did. I’m saying a good coach can struggle with that much turnover. The ballyhooed 2012 recruiting class featured McGary, Stauskas, GRIII, LeVert. By 2015 three were gone, and LeVert got hurt.
2013 was a good class too, but Walton and Irvin didn’t really blossom until their senior year.
In 2014, Chatman was a bust save for one incredible shot against IU, Doyle didn’t pan out, Dawkins was good but couldn’t defend, MAAR took time.
Now, when Walton struggled, was that because Beilein’s offense sucked? Was it because he couldn’t develop PG’s? It’s laughable to think of now.
But that kind of roster turnover is massively impactful even with talent. Look at Kentucky! They have missed multiple tournaments in recent years (in a weaker conference) despite being able to recruit whoever they want.
How this recruiting class develops will be key. So far, Dug and Reed look like keepers. We’ll see with the others. From last year Michigan lost two players to the NBA. I don’t blame him for Frankie because the guy would have gotten minutes and probably would have beaten out Llewelyn anyway. If anything, the transfer was a good call because Michigan clearly needed depth at guard. And if you want to say Llewelyn was bad talent evaluation, I’d point you to Beilein recruiting Jaaron Simmons. Did Zavier transfer? Would it have been fair to blame Beilein if he or Brooks did? No!
From last class, we still have Kobe, Tschetter, and Barnes. Kobe looks like a stud, Tschetter has progressed nicely, and Barnes has flashed. Dug and Reed look like they will be very reliable if not by end of this year then certainly next year. It’s crucial these two classes develop.
But judging Juwan on this year or even last year given the roster turnover is premature.
January 7th, 2023 at 6:22 PM ^
This team would look a lot better with Frankie Collins on the roster. Collins, McDaniel, and Bufkin aren't really the worst haul you can have with guards. I will say that recruiting has slowed down with our NIL approach. I don't know if that gets fixed anytime soon with burgergate.
January 7th, 2023 at 6:40 PM ^
I agree Collins is more impactful at this stage because he is a sophomore but Dug is the better fit because he can at least shoot a bit and he can make his free throws. He will likely be around for a while and could prove to be an excellent college player.
January 7th, 2023 at 9:56 PM ^
Dug will be good next year, if not by the end of this year
January 7th, 2023 at 6:44 PM ^
Or if Llewlyn (sp?) wasn't out for the year. Our other transfer PGs improved significantly throughout the season. I'd take him over Frankie actually. Doesn't Frankie have a horrific offensive rating this year?
January 7th, 2023 at 9:56 PM ^
Frankie wasn’t solving the issue of Michigan going 3-20 from 3 today, I can tell you that much