Home
we had subs it was crazy

Primary links

  • About
    • $upport (lol)
    • Ethics
    • FAQ
    • Privacy Policy
  • Contact
  • MGoStore
  • MGoBoard
    • MGoBoard FAQ
    • Ticket spreadsheet
    • Michigan bar locator
    • Moderator Action Sticky
  • Useful Stuff
    • Depth Chart By Class
    • Unofficial Two Deep
    • 2013 Offer Board
    • Crude Bug Tracking System
    • Third Down Stats
    • Diaries, Windows Live Writer, And You
    • Michigan Future Schedules
    • User-Curated HOF
    • 2013 Recruiting Board
    • Where To Eat In Ann Arbor
Home Forums MGoBoard

Navigation

  • Forums
  • Recent posts

User login

  • Create new account
  • Request new password

MGoElsewhere

  • @MGoBlog (Brian)
  • @aceanbender
  • @TomVH (Tom)
  • RSS Feed
  • iPhone App
  • Facebook profile
  • MGoKindle Store
  • mgo.licio.us
  • Brian @ TSB [Archive]
  • Brian @ AOL [Archive]
  • Sour Salty Bitter Sweet

Michigan Blogs

  • Big House Blog
  • Burgeoning Wolverine Star
  • Genuinely Sarcastic
  • Go Blue Michigan Wolverine
  • Holdin' The Rope
  • MGoFootball
  • MVictors
  • Maize 'n' Blue Nation
  • Maize 'n' Brew
  • Maize And Go Blue
  • Michigan Hockey Net
  • The Blog That Yost Built
  • The Hoover Street Rag
  • The M Block
  • The M Zone
  • The Wolverine Blog
  • Touch The Banner
  • UMGoBlog
  • UMHoops
  • UMTailgate
  • Wolverine Liberation Army

M On The Net

  • mgovideo
  • MGoBlue.com
  • Mike DeSimone
  • Recruiting Planet
  • The Wolverine
  • Go Blue Wolverine
  • Winged Helmet
  • UMGoBlue.com
  • MaizeRage.org
  • Puckhead
  • The M Den
  • True Blue Fan Forum

Big Ten Blogs

  • Illinois
    • A Lion Eye
    • Hail To The Orange
    • Illinois Baseball Report
    • Illinois Loyalty
  • Indiana
    • Inside The Hall
    • The Crimson Quarry
  • Iowa
    • Black Heart, Gold Pants
    • Fight For Iowa
  • Michigan State
    • The Only Colors
  • Minnesota
    • GopherHole.com
    • The Daily Gopher
    • I'm In Love With A Fringe Bowl Team
    • TNABACG
  • Nebraska
    • Big Red Network
    • Corn Nation
    • Husker Mike's Blasphemy
    • Husker Gameday
  • Northwestern
    • Sippin' On Purple
    • Lake The Posts
  • Notre Dame
    • The House Rock Built
    • One Foot Down
  • Ohio State
    • Eleven Warriors
    • Buckeye Commentary
    • Men of the Scarlet and Gray
    • Our Honor Defend
    • The Buckeye Nine
  • Penn State
    • Slow States
    • Black Shoe Diaries
    • Happy Valley Hardball
    • Penn State Clips
    • Linebacker U
    • Nittany White Out
  • Purdue
    • Boiled Sports
    • Hammer and Rails
  • Wisconsin
    • Bruce Ciskie

Links of Note

  • Baseball
    • Big Ten Hardball
    • College Baseball Today
    • The Baseball Zealot
    • The College Baseball Blog
  • Basketball
    • Ken Pomeroy
    • Basketball Prospectus
    • Midmajority
  • College Hockey
    • Chris Heisenberg
    • College Hockey Stats
    • Inside College Hockey
    • Michigan College Hockey
    • Hockey's Future
    • Sioux Sports
    • USCHO
    • Western College Hockey
    • CCHA
      • LSSU Hockey
      • Bronco Hockey Blog
  • Football
    • Smart Football
    • Every Day Should Be Saturday
    • Doctor Saturday
    • CFB Stats
    • Harold Stassen
    • NCAA D-I Stats Page
    • The Wizard Of Odds
  • General
    • Sports Central
  • Local Interest
    • The Ann Arbor Chronicle
    • Arborwiki
    • Arbor Update
    • Teeter Talk
    • Vacuum
  • Teams Of The D
    • Lions
      • Pride of Detroit
      • Fire Millen
    • Pistons
      • Detroit Bad Boys
      • Need4Sheed
    • Tigers
      • Roar Of The Tigers
      • The Detroit Tigers Weblog
      • The Daily Fungo
    • Red Wings
      • On The Wings
      • Behind The Jersey
      • Winging It In Motown
    • Michigan Sports Forum

Archive

  • May 2013 (42)
  • April 2013 (94)
  • March 2013 (104)
  • February 2013 (81)
  • January 2013 (93)
  • December 2012 (74)
  • November 2012 (142)
  • October 2012 (143)
  • September 2012 (107)
  • August 2012 (103)
  •  
  • 1 of 11
  • ››

Get Yer Tickets

Football Display Case

NFL Watches

Follow your favorite team with localtv-satellite.com: Click Here.

Site Search

Diaries

  • New
  • Popular
  • Hot
  • MGoAcceptance: Another MGoAnecdote
    LSAClassOf2000 - 1 week ago
  • OT - Kentucky Derby 2012
    k.o.k.Law - 2 weeks ago
  • Observations on the National Championship Game
    Paps - 2 weeks ago
  • Recalling My First Experiences With MGoCulture
    LSAClassOf2000 - 2 weeks ago
  • 2013 NFL Draft Recap: B1G Team Comparisons
    UMgradMSUdad - 3 weeks ago
  • ‹‹
  • 2 of 4
  • ››
more
  • Big Ten Recruiting Rankings 5-15-13
    Ace - 1,461 views
  • Future Non-Conference Opponent Recruiting Watch
    EGD - 686 views
  • More Milford Men Than Michigan Men: Comparing the 11-12 and 12-13 Hockey Teams
    MGoBlueline - 463 views
  • Way Too Late B1G Men's Basketball Scheduling Idea
    BeileinBuddy - 451 views
  • Using Rivals' Star Ratings To Look At Big Ten Football Recruiting: 2002-2013
    LSAClassOf2000 - 15 views
  • Big Ten Recruiting Rankings 5-15-13
    Ace - 51 comments
  • Future Non-Conference Opponent Recruiting Watch
    EGD - 15 comments
  • The Blockhams in "HOCKEY HANGOVER"
    Six Zero - 13 comments
  • More Milford Men Than Michigan Men: Comparing the 11-12 and 12-13 Hockey Teams
    MGoBlueline - 7 comments
  • Using Rivals' Star Ratings To Look At Big Ten Football Recruiting: 2002-2013
    LSAClassOf2000 - 0 comments

MGoBoard

  • New
  • Recent
  • Hot
  • Michigan Baseball vs Nebraska on BTN Open Thread
    45 replies
  • Michigan Women's Tennis Swept by UCLA
    4 replies
  • OT: Preakness Stakes
    26 replies
  • M Softball hosting Cal in Regional - 5/18
    21 replies
  • OT: Red Wings @ Hawks Game 2 Open Thread
    113 replies
  • Marvin Robinson to FSU
    52 replies
  • OT: Ron English & Mike Hart to jump out of a plane for new EMU bathrooms
    43 replies
  • OT: ESPN Mag/Insider special $5/Year
    28 replies
  • BBall year in review Deleted...
    10 replies
  • OT: RIP Dick Trickle and Ken Venturi
    14 replies
  • Siva Admits Trey Burke's Title Game Block Was Clean
    62 replies
  • Softball Open Thread 7pm vs Valpo ESPN3
    36 replies
  • OT Staee shutout by Penn St 9-0 in baseball
    21 replies
  • Alex Bars to Notre Dame
    96 replies
  • OT - The Friday Night Alcoholics - Early Edition Thread
    59 replies
  • ‹‹
  • 2 of 6
  • ››
  • B1G Network Helmet Bracket
    39 replies
  • OT- happy World Whisk(e)y day everyone!
    45 replies
  • OT: Saturday Night Drinking/Open/Tigers Thread
    46 replies
  • OT: IIHF Semifinal US vs Switzerland Open Thread
    3 replies
  • Siva Admits Trey Burke's Title Game Block Was Clean
    62 replies
  • Softball Open Thread 7pm vs Valpo ESPN3
    36 replies
  • Michigan Women's Tennis Swept by UCLA
    4 replies
  • BBall year in review Deleted...
    10 replies
  • OT: Red Wings @ Hawks Game 2 Open Thread
    113 replies
  • OT: Preakness Stakes
    26 replies
  • M Softball hosting Cal in Regional - 5/18
    21 replies
  • Brady Hoke Calls Notre Dame A Chicken
    163 replies
  • OT: RIP Dick Trickle and Ken Venturi
    14 replies
  • Michigan has #1 recruiting class on ESPN now.
    73 replies
  • Speight to compete in Oakland Elite 11 camp
    47 replies
  • ‹‹
  • 2 of 6
  • ››
  • OT: Red Wings vs. Blackhawks Open Thread
    201 replies
  • Shane Morris to wear the famed #7 jersey, J.J. McGrath #46
    175 replies
  • Jabrill Peppers Announcement Date Set
    169 replies
  • Brady Hoke Calls Notre Dame A Chicken
    163 replies
  • UM 2014 Conf schedule football
    123 replies
  • Brandon on Uniformzzz
    119 replies
  • OT: Red Wings @ Hawks Game 2 Open Thread
    113 replies
  • Notre Dame's Nix fires back at Coach Hoke
    110 replies
  • Alex Bars to Notre Dame
    96 replies
  • Sparty losing recruits to the rap game
    95 replies
  • PSU about to get blasted again by SI investigative report
    88 replies
  • Michigan Softball vs. Cal Open Thread
    75 replies
  • Michigan has #1 recruiting class on ESPN now.
    73 replies
  • OT: Advice on moving to Ann Arbor
    72 replies
  • Jay Harris (the rapping WR) had schollie pulled by MSU a month ago
    70 replies
  •  
  • 1 of 6
  • ››

mgo.licio.us

  • Big Ten football procrastinates on parity-based scheduling, and nothing ever changes

    the just released schedules were a flat-out statement that the B10 doesn't believe SOS will matter in playoff selection

    1 comments
  • Michigan's Glenn Robinson III, Mitch McGary ranked inside top 20 on ESPN's 2014 draft board

    but I thought that draft was supposed to be incredibly loaded?

    1 comments
  • Tim Hardaway Jr. turning heads, viewed as a first-rounder by some teams, analyst says

    If you're gonna go please be in the first round.

    0 comments
  • Michigan-Ohio State once, Indiana-Purdue once? The Big Ten has to protect its hoops rivalries

    another delightful side effect of a 14 team conference

    0 comments
  • Beilein on transfers: All should have to sit a year, regardless of situation

    I disagree.

    0 comments
  • Julie Hermann takes over as Rutgers AD, won't try to spend like Michigan

    GOOD PLAN

    1 comments
  • Jay Harris says no to Michigan State, decides to become a rapper

    hahahahaha

    0 comments
  • The Difference Between A Good Fan And A Bad Fan

    thoughtful piece from Jacobi on middle finger lady

    3 comments
  • Michigan's rising recruiting profile exciting John Beilein, who remains true to his scouting form

    Their high school coaches and AAU coaches have probably a better appreciation of Michigan than maybe they had before," Beilein said. "It's a tough balance right now. Tim Hardaway and Trey Burke weren't really high-profile players, nor was Darius Morris, and all were high-profile players. "We're still looking at 'who is the best fit.' "

    0 comments
  • Charles Barkley discusses Michael Jordan, Dream Team and more - NBA - Jack McCallum - SI.com

    "When I call somebody a midget, clearly I'm not trying to insult f---ing midgets. I'm just using basketball terminology."

    0 comments
  • Why does the NFL make for such bad media?

    robots

    0 comments
  • Pictured: Detroit's Robocop Statue nears completion date

    elsewhere in awesome things kickstarter made happen

    0 comments
  • Spectacular images of the madness that was the first FA Cup final

    And you think you're crowded at Michigan Stadium

    0 comments
  • Bear Vs. Monkey Bicycle Race Ends With Bear Eating Monkey

    IMPORTANT: Ondre Pipkins not involved.

    11 comments
  • Damon Bullock Has the Greatest Vine Account of All Time

    this is amazing

    7 comments

Malcolm Gladwell: Why College Football Should Be Outlawed

192 posts / 0 new
Login or register to post comments
Last post

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
May 1st, 2012 at 12:50 AM | co-sign, and if you did skip reading the (Score:1)
Picktown GoBlue
Picktown GoBlue's picture
Joined: 01/21/2011
MGoPoints: 842

directions, of course there's a webpage for your next stop (Warning, not much blood, but may not be a page for the squeamish) - http://www.wikiradiography.com/page/Imaging+Nail+Gun+Injuries

  • Login or register to post comments
May 1st, 2012 at 3:25 AM | Everything is about risk (Score:1)
HELLE
HELLE's picture
Joined: 07/26/2011
MGoPoints: 641

It's the same reason I don't Mountain Bike anymore. I am aware of the risk. We should educate and use all of the advances to minimize these risk. Life has risk.

Go Blue!

  • Login or register to post comments
May 1st, 2012 at 6:39 AM | Woah there (Score:1)
maizenbluenc
maizenbluenc's picture
Joined: 07/21/2009
MGoPoints: 2677

People don't care about Nascar?

  • Login or register to post comments
May 1st, 2012 at 12:22 PM | I don't know much about (Score:2)
Needs
Joined: 08/05/2008
MGoPoints: 4159

I don't know much about Nascar, but I do know that it implemented significant changes to both the driver's cabin (the helmet restraint technology mandated after Earnhart's death) and to car engines (the restrictor plate that limits speeds) in response to driver deaths. Various levels of football have started to make such changes (the fines for targeting heads, changes to kickoffs) but it should make more as well as working to improve helmet technology and mandate its adoption in response to the sub-concussive injury studies.

  • Login or register to post comments
May 1st, 2012 at 1:04 AM | So are you (Score:1)
Roachgoblue
Joined: 08/29/2011
MGoPoints: 1477

For being a dumbass columnist!

[Caved troll is caved. Sorry, Mobile app users.]

  • Login or register to post comments
May 1st, 2012 at 2:17 AM | Well, looks like Maclolm (Score:5 Normal)
brandanomano
brandanomano's picture
Joined: 09/05/2009
MGoPoints: 4400

Well, looks like Maclolm Gladwell just made my shit list.

I'm going to sue my college because I kill all of my brain cells from drinking. Same logic, basically.

Special Teams means special times!

  • Login or register to post comments
May 1st, 2012 at 2:52 AM | High School Football (Score:3 Normal)
JamieH
Joined: 09/05/2009
MGoPoints: 333

The real concern in terms of the long-term health of football is that High Schools may stop having it.  If  High Schools decide it is too dangerous to field teams, where do all the kids learn how to play?

Maybe a bunch of AAU teams would spring up or something, I'm not sure.  Whatever happened, the quality of teh college games would be severly diminished.

  • Login or register to post comments
May 1st, 2012 at 3:18 AM | College football (Score:1)
HELLE
HELLE's picture
Joined: 07/26/2011
MGoPoints: 641

He's definitely right as far as football being dangerous but what propels college football is not the talent that comes out of high school. It's the atmosphere that surrounds college towns and universities. Their will always be kids that have a dream of playing professional football. Regardless of their talent level, the university will support the kids that choose to play football at their school. The alumni will always support their school. The region will still have a geographical connection, so they will continue to support the school. College football is built on loyalty and pride. The only way college football will stuggle would be a collapse of the United States education system. I think we are safe.

Go Blue!

  • Login or register to post comments
May 1st, 2012 at 4:09 AM | You are taught from the very (Score:2 Normal)
Ball Hawk
Joined: 11/28/2011
MGoPoints: 721

You are taught from the very beginning of youth football that you never tackle with your head down and you never lead with your head to initiate contack because YOU COULD BREAK YOUR NECK OR SUFFER A CONCUSSION. That is football 101.

If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you.

  • Login or register to post comments
May 1st, 2012 at 7:54 AM | Let's come back to this "pay the college players" thing. (Score:5 Normal)
Section 1
Section 1's picture
Joined: 06/29/2009
MGoPoints: 14296

Let us assume, just for purposes of argument, that Malcolm Gladwell is correct, and that football is excessively risky, for brain injury.

And let us further assume, that the risks of brain injury go up exponentially with higher-level football (with the NFL being the most extreme risk).

If we assume all of that to be true, what is the interest in "paying" collegiate football players?  Doesn't that just raise the stakes for all concerned?  It increases the motivation for 18 year-olds to decide to play college football.  As we know in the recruiting process, it imposes itself on 16 and 17 year olds, many of whom are from poor backgrounds. 

Paying athletes also raises the stakes for the institutions; to bring in more revenue; and to produce a more professionalized entertainment product.  The players will need, and will get, lawyers and agents and financial planners.

Finally, a cadre of paid professional athletes within a university further separates them from the rest of the student body.  If you want to really drive a wedge between the main student body and a class of athletes, the surest way to do it is to pay the athletes to focus on athletics away from the rest of the university.

I honestly wouldn't mind it, if we de-emphasized college football, away from being a farm system for the NFL.  If the Ivy League became the model for all of the rest of collegiate sports, I would much prefer that, to paying players.

Malcolm Gladwell's proposal to pay players does nothing to address his concerns about head injuries; I expect that it would make whatever problems that now exist much worse.

 

 

  • Login or register to post comments
May 1st, 2012 at 9:46 AM | Great post. There is a huge (Score:4 Normal)
Needs
Joined: 08/05/2008
MGoPoints: 4159

Great post. There is a huge contradiction at the heart of his argument. Paying players would incentivize the activity he finds inherently dangerous.

  • Login or register to post comments
May 1st, 2012 at 8:25 AM | This just pisses me off. (Score:4 Normal)
RowoneEndzone
RowoneEndzone's picture
Joined: 09/27/2008
MGoPoints: 3121

This just pisses me off.  This guy sounds jealous of people that have fun in life.  Sorry pal, 114,000 people are not going to ever watch college track meets on a regular basis.  As a former college lacrosse player I also have news for you, 114,000 people will never watch a lacrosse game every saturday in the spring.

Football players are naturally aggressive human beings.  Aggressive human beings bang their head on a lot of shit when they are kids growing up.  They jump their BMX bikes and land on their head.  They climb up tree houses, jump off for the thrill, and bump their head.  They headbutted the wall, floor, the dog and dad's leg when they were toddlers and upset.  They play dodgeball with their friends and get hit in the head.  They play hockey and get hit in the dead.

I could go on and on but the argument of a thousand little hits leading to the end of College Football is shit.  When pop warner, middle school, and high school football are extinct, I'll believe it.  When kids don't like to participate in violent contact sports I'll believe it.  When people don't like watching violent contact sports, I'll believe it.  Otherwise I'll still be at the big house every saturday in the fall or on my couch for at least 5 hours watching one of the greatest teams in one of the greatest sports in history.  

Hail to and suck our collective BALLS Malcom.

"Wasn't that Michigan drive just great.  That's like Patton riding into Berlin." ~Bob Ufer

  • Login or register to post comments
May 1st, 2012 at 8:55 AM | Question... (Score:2 Normal)
Mr. Yost
Mr. Yost's picture
Joined: 07/25/2011
MGoPoints: 5504

Should the outlaw college hockey, club rugby? Should all college soccer players wear ultra padded helmets?

Why just football?

Concussions part of most sports.

“True loyalty is that quality of service that grows under adversity and expands in defeat. Any street urchin can shout applause in victory, but it takes character to stand fast in defeat. One is noise — the other, loyalty.”

  • Login or register to post comments
May 1st, 2012 at 12:40 PM | Why football? (Score:2)
Needs
Joined: 08/05/2008
MGoPoints: 4159

Football and hockey are the two team sports to be linked to CTE, which, rather than just concussions, has been the focus of the concern. 

Now, this may be because only football and hockey players have arranged to have their brains donated to the major CTE study at BU (along with a few boxers). It would certainly be interesting to see if the brains of soccer players have similar effects, given the extensive heading (and I know that when I played soccer, it wasn't uncommon to become dizzy after slightly misheading the ball). But given the new research, and what we know CTE does to the brain, I don't think it's acceptable to just shrug it off as "part of the game."

  • Login or register to post comments
May 1st, 2012 at 9:01 AM | Speaking as a football player (Score:3 Normal)
GrindToEat
GrindToEat's picture
Joined: 04/23/2012
MGoPoints: 147

Speaking as a football player who has sustained several concussions in my last three years, I can say that my brain still works fine. I still have a 3.5 gpa, and plan on playing football till no one wants me anymore

  • Login or register to post comments
May 1st, 2012 at 9:04 AM | You missed the point (Score:-1 Flamebait)
Noahdb
Joined: 07/21/2008
MGoPoints: 344

This just pisses me off.  This guy sounds jealous of people that have fun in life.

That you are entertained by it is not in question. Nor is it relevant. Romans were endlessly entertained by Christians being tossed to lions and by slaves being forced to fight as gladiators. 

No, I'm not claiming that football and gladiators and public executions and torture ceremonies are moral equivalents. I'm saying that society has always been entertained by violence and bloodshed. But society usually tries to trend towards the "better" and the "good." 

  • Login or register to post comments
May 1st, 2012 at 9:38 AM | You must not have read my (Score:4 Normal)
RowoneEndzone
RowoneEndzone's picture
Joined: 09/27/2008
MGoPoints: 3121

You must not have read my entire post.  I had two points:  

  1. People like to play violent sports.  No one forces kids to have fun playing pop warner or high school football.
  2. People like to watch violent sports.

"Wasn't that Michigan drive just great.  That's like Patton riding into Berlin." ~Bob Ufer

  • Login or register to post comments
May 1st, 2012 at 11:49 AM | Key questions to ask:1.  (Score:3 Normal)
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 28961

Key questions to ask:

1.  While it's been established that some ex-NFL players have suffered brain damage, has the same been found for players who quit football after college?  The NFL is a dangerous cocktail of factors: older players, who may have suffered head trauma over an extended period of time, who experience the fastest, most violent collisions.  College players are younger, less experienced and on the whole, less talented (leading to fewer vicious hits).

2.  If so, what is the rate of significant brain damage, and does this rate justify outlawing the sport? 

Say it turns out that 1% of players whose careers end at college suffer long-term brain damage.  Is that a sufficiently high rate to outlaw the sport?  I guess Gladwell would say yes, but I'm not sure.

 

  • Login or register to post comments
May 1st, 2012 at 12:08 PM | On question 1, here is the (Score:3 Normal)
Needs
Joined: 08/05/2008
MGoPoints: 4159

On question 1, here is the prime case (from wikipedia, but the refs are back to the original news stories):

 

An autopsy conducted in 2010 on the brain of Owen Thomas, a 21-year-old junior lineman at the University of Pennsylvania who committed suicide by hanging himself, showed early stages of CTE, making him the youngest person to be diagnosed with the condition. Thomas was the second amateur football player diagnosed with CTE, after Mike Borich, who died at 42.[16] The doctors who performed the autopsy indicated that they found no causal connection between the nascent CTE and Thomas's suicide. There were no records of Thomas missing any playing time due to concussion, but as a player who played hard and "loved to hit people," he may have played through concussions and received thousands of subconcussive impacts on the brain.[17]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_traumatic_encephalopathy

The Thomas case is disturbing both because he played at a lower level of college football and because he never apparently had a diagnosed concussion.

I think question 2 contains the vital issues. We know with relative certainty that football players can sustain significant brain damage by the point they are playing college football. I don't think we know the rates at which it occurs and what types of contact are most apt to lead to such brain trauma. Obviously, diagnosis is made difficult by the fact that CTE can only be conclusively diagnosed post-mortum, via a brain autopsy (this is chillingly why Dave Duerson committed suicide by shooting himself in the chest). 

I think at the very least schools should be required to perform brain function tests on players when they enter their programs both at the high school and college levels, in order to have baselines against which to measure changes.

  • Login or register to post comments
May 1st, 2012 at 1:10 PM | You have to wonder how many college football blogs... (Score:1)
Section 1
Section 1's picture
Joined: 06/29/2009
MGoPoints: 14296

...are repeating this same debate.

Malcolm Gladwell really is a genius.  (It will be interesting to see how many clicks Slate gets out of the deal.)

 

 

  • Login or register to post comments
May 1st, 2012 at 3:42 PM | Players know there is a (Score:2)
bleep bloop
bleep bloop's picture
Joined: 08/05/2010
MGoPoints: 1727

Players know there is a possibility to get injured, but they still play the game. They get enjoyment of the sport, and the possibility to become a pro athlete and make a whole bunch of money playing it. For me this is like the lottery. People know the odds, and they know they aren't good. People play the lottery regardless because of what could happen if they won. 

  • Login or register to post comments
May 1st, 2012 at 3:47 PM | it's also like doing heroin. (Score:0 Offtopic)
chitownblue2
chitownblue2's picture
Joined: 06/03/2009
MGoPoints: 7060

it's also like doing heroin. Should we legalize it because addicts like it?

wolverineliberationarmy.com/blog

  • Login or register to post comments
May 1st, 2012 at 4:05 PM | So we should, by force, stop (Score:1)
justingoblue
justingoblue's picture
Joined: 11/16/2010
MGoPoints: 10860

So we should, by force, stop the playing of football in America because of your ideas of value judgments you think players should have?

The entire draft class of 2012 knows (or should know, the information is out there, just like research on drug use is out there) the impact of multiple concussions, subconcussive hits and standard injuries like ACL tears or broken bones. As far as I know, none are about to decline contracts and go into whatever field their degree is in based on the risk.

Go Blue!

  • Login or register to post comments
May 1st, 2012 at 4:09 PM | That's not what I'm saying. (Score:2 Normal)
chitownblue2
chitownblue2's picture
Joined: 06/03/2009
MGoPoints: 7060

That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is "but they like it!" isn't an argument in it's support. There are many things people like that we don't allow them to do.

Regardless, I don't think anyone, including Gladwell, is advocating for the eradication of football (I think he's being hyperbolic to make a point). What I think is that people think the NCAA and NFL are extremely culpable for sweeping long-term head trauma under the rug, and that running a for-proft minor-league isn't in the scope of what higher education was meant for.

wolverineliberationarmy.com/blog

  • Login or register to post comments
May 1st, 2012 at 6:43 PM | Fine. You used heroin as an (Score:3 Normal)
bleep bloop
bleep bloop's picture
Joined: 08/05/2010
MGoPoints: 1727

Fine. You used heroin as an example, which isn't a good one because it's already outlawed. This scenario requires shutting down an existing organization, not bringing in another bad one. A more fitting example would be alcohol. Alcohol has numerous terrible effects and it's used by a bigger percent of the population than the population that plays football. Should we have a second prohibition? If you really think so, then good for you. If not, your stance is just about as shaky as mine. Obviously the system could be better, but nobody has a really good solution for it at this point. If you do, then try to change it. 

  • Login or register to post comments
May 1st, 2012 at 5:10 PM | I asked this somewhere else (Score:2)
Needs
Joined: 08/05/2008
MGoPoints: 4159

I asked this somewhere else but it got buried.

How do they know about the brain trauma caused by sub-concussive contact? In what way is their knowledge formed?

A theory: Most of our knowledge is formed through experience. Current players know a lot about knee injuries, shoulder injuries and the like, because they see their teammates (and friends) get them and they see what the damage is and the recovery looks like. Many have likely experienced degrees of such injuries themselves. Today, they know a lot about concussions too, certainly a lot more than they did a few years ago. In seeing players be held out of practices and games, in seeing the treatment they receive, I would imagine most players have begun to consider them serious injuries and not just "getting your bell rung" as they were just a few years ago. (As a Packers fan, I can remember Favre getting a concussion against the Giants in 2004 and being shocked that he wasn't allowed to return to the game).

Most players do not, however, have experience with former players who experience diminished brain function because of CTE and other long-term brain trauma. As it primarily manifests itself years later (though the UPenn players shows that sub-concussive trauma are likely affecting at least some of their teammates), most players thus do not know about CTE in the same way they do injuries that manifest themselves immediately. I have no idea if players are directly informed about those dangers.

Should the burden be on players to arrive that knowledge in order to make an informed decision? Should teams/schools convey it in some way? I have no doubt that most players would choose to play, even knowing the risks of CTE, but I guess my broader question is who's responsibility is it to make sure they have the knowledge they need in order to make that choice?

  • Login or register to post comments
May 1st, 2012 at 5:47 PM | This response covers... (Score:2 Normal)
justingoblue
justingoblue's picture
Joined: 11/16/2010
MGoPoints: 10860

only people who have gotten into the league since some of these stories/research findings have come out. The older guys pose a much different question than the one you asked (and my post specifically said the 2012 draft class).

Judging by some of the responses here I might be in the minority, but as far as obligation, I would say the participants. It might be good business practice for the NFL to fund research into brain trauma, run seminars for players and staff about the risks involved, ect. but I firmly believe that once information is out in the public sphere (and there have been stories in major publications about the effects of CTE, not to mention that we're debating an article from a good sized magazine that takes a very dramatic view on the subject) it falls on those who actually make a decision, just like salary or pension benefits should be weighed.

To draw a comparison (and please nobody kill me here, since this is a sensitive issue for a lot of people, I'm just trying to point out similarities, I'm not equating anything), PTSD in the military was downplayed for a long time, much like the effects of head trauma in the NFL. In fact, PTSD would fit well with your theory of recognizing risks via experience: the average Soldier/Sailor/Airman/Marine can easily identify with getting shot, but suffering severe psychological trauma is a different animal altogether. The military would do well to warn people before enlistment/commissioning about PTSD, but ultimately it falls on the individual to make the effort to discover the benefits and risks of any activity before deciding to do anything.

TLDR version: the NFL should be helping, but an individual is responsible for seeking out pertinant information before signing a contract or taking the field.

Go Blue!

  • Login or register to post comments
May 1st, 2012 at 6:23 PM | I think I agree with you on (Score:3 Normal)
Needs
Joined: 08/05/2008
MGoPoints: 4159

I think I agree with you on the NFL. As you move down levels, though, it gets a lot trickier.

  • Login or register to post comments
May 1st, 2012 at 7:19 PM | I can agree with that. (Score:1)
justingoblue
justingoblue's picture
Joined: 11/16/2010
MGoPoints: 10860

In high school, you have to rely on a third party in order to have legal consent, and the moral issue of allowing minors to play potentially life altering sports is certainly much more murky than with paid professionals.

As far as college, I'm not really sold on the idea that it's substantially different from the NFL. You're dealing with people old enough to enlist in the military, buy a weapon (and are assumed to be capable of using it responsibly) or own a business, so I believe they should be expected to understand the costs and benefits associated with repetitive brain trauma. That said, (IMO) universities that don't take proactive measures to explain these risks and really impress how serious CTE and the like can be are hypocritical at best, given the university's stated purpose for existing.

Either way, I don't think it matters much for the current crop of students/NFL'ers. They've always played and they will play until nobody will compensate them for it. The bigger issue is getting the parents of the next generation to understand the issues at play.

Go Blue!

  • Login or register to post comments
May 1st, 2012 at 3:51 PM | This chap should not be talking about football. (Score:3 Normal)
SalvatoreQuattro
SalvatoreQuattro's picture
Joined: 11/30/2010
MGoPoints: 2787

For one thing, they already tried banning the sport(See Teddy Roosevelt)If they could not ban the sport in its nascent stages why would they do it now?

His reason for banning is dubious. If as he claims lawsuits will bring about the sport's fall then why haven't cars/planes/trains been banned? These modes of travel have killed far more people and caused far more damage then football. Using his logic lawsuits long ago would have rendered these objects economically unviable. This also applies to every sport because people do get injured ine very sport. Very questionable logic in my point of view.

Secondly, how is football any worse than NASCAR or Skiing? In both sports you place yourself in mortal danger.(e.g: Sarah Burke and Dale Earnhardt) The last football player to die on the field that I know of was Chuck Hughes and that from a condition unrelated to the sport.

On the ethics of watching the game.Is the viewing of horror movies an ethical act? While what you are viewing in a horror film is fake the simple act of taking pleasure in viewing humans being eviscervated, shot, lynched,  and impaled in gruesome detail is far more disturbing than watching two men in pads smack into each other.

Malcolm Gladwell lives in a genteel world where everything is latte and scones. He represents the effete America. The side that refuses to acknowledge that brutality and physical prowess are every bit the part of the human condition as creative and intellectual genius. For One Percenters like Gladwell, fooball is an anarchonism from a bygone era where men were sweat-stained dullards who never read Jonson or debated Hegel.To Gladwell it is clear that football is not the the Sport of Kings, but the Sport of Uncivilized Brutes. 

I haven't taken the time to read his "Outliers' so I'll refrain from judging the man. But this interview indicates to me a level of elitism that ought to be noted. If anyone had any doubts that much of the intelligentsia is filled with provincial snobs than this article should put that to rest. 

"The Ruhr will not be subjected to a single bomb. If an enemy bomber reaches the Ruhr, my name is not Hermann Göring: you can call me Urban Meyer!"

  • Login or register to post comments
May 1st, 2012 at 3:55 PM | The risk of dying in a (Score:3 Normal)
chitownblue2
chitownblue2's picture
Joined: 06/03/2009
MGoPoints: 7060

The risk of dying in a flaming car-wreck is self-evident.

The risk of slowly losing your mind as a result of cumumulative collisions and concussions was less so. We know this, because the NFL claimed there was no adverse health effect until 2010.

wolverineliberationarmy.com/blog

  • Login or register to post comments
May 1st, 2012 at 4:43 PM | Historical sidebar (Score:3 Normal)
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 28961

Teddy Roosevelt did not actually want to ban football.  That's a bit of a misconception.  There was a movement in favor of banning it, but he was not part of it.  He did, however, spearhead reforms that made the game safer, which nipped the anti-football movement in the bud.

  • Login or register to post comments
  • « first
  • ‹ previous
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
Powered by Pressflow, an open source content management system
Theme provided by Roopletheme; sidebars adapted from Chris Murphy.