LSA Magazine's Top 10 Michigan Athletes
LSA Magazine has compiled its list of the Top 10 Michigan Athletes (who achieved their success while in Ann Arbor), and it's a pretty good one.
- Bennie Oosterban (football, basketball, baseball)
- Tom Harmon (football, basketball)
- Ron Kramer (football, basketball, track)
- Micki King (diving)
- Cazzie Russell (basketball)
- Rick Leach (football, baseball)
- Anthony Carter (football)
- Barry Larkin (baseball)
- Charles Woodson (football)
- Brendan Morrison (hockey)
Honorable Mention: Desmond Howard (football), Tom Dolan (swimming), Jennie Ritter (softball), Glen Rice (basketball), Don Dufek (football, hockey), Rudy Tomjanovich (basketball), Eddie Tolan (track)
I'm not sure how Anthony Carter (a one-sport athlete) can beat out Desmond Howard (a one-sport athlete), who won a Heisman.
Otherwise, that's a pretty good list.
I guess they decided that AC's 3 All-American awards trump Desmond's Heisman and one All-American. Tough choice to make.
I think Anthony Carter was a better receiver - Desmond Howard benefited from being in a much more pass-happy offense than AC. Howard might have been a better kick returner, but AC was no slouch there, either.
Well, Braylon did let AC wear the number 1 jersey.
Not even in the same league as AC. Braylon is a good man, but AC Is a legend.
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<br>Let AC where the jersey? I hope that was a joke, both historically and informatively.
Carter was a Heisman finalist himself. Some years the competition for the trophy is stronger than others. In any event, he was here the same number of years as Desmond (four) and recorded better career receiving numbers across the board, despite playing in a less pass-friendly offense.
but having seen both Desmond Howard and Anthony Carter play, I have to say AC was the better player. Everytime AC touched the ball it was electric (like Woodson) and you held your breath because magic was going to happen.
Not to say it wasn't that way with Desmond either - it would be nice to have him in the top ten too. Just not at the expense of AC.
When football was a game....Not a business...Anthony Carter was the greatest Michigan football player of all time. If u aren't old enough to have had the priviledge of watching him first hand, YouTube it.
How is Desmond not in the top 10. I always loved Barry Larkin as a baseball player and wore 11 because of him but he isnt Desmond Howard.
But where is Denard?
Michael Phelps, Chris Webber, Denard Robinson
Or else he's a lock.
The article states that Micki King never competed for Michigan but she's listed. No way she is a more influential/important "Michigan athlete" than Michael Phelps. No way.
/not sexist
Strictly speaking, that's true, so her inclusion is somewhat interesting, as is her early '60s story at Michigan:
....link:
In the years before Title IX, women were not permitted to compete in Michigan athletics, but Kimball and King circumvented the system. King recalled, “One of Coach Kimball’s greatest lines was that he didn’t coach men or women he coached people. He taught me dives that no woman had ever done before. I pioneered those dives. Coach Kimball knew that we were a team of people.”
She noted: "We used the women's pool at the CCRB. What was ironic was that the men were allowed to come into and use the women's pool but the women couldn't even come into the men's. What Kimball would do was sneak us through the back doors because the front door was right in front of the administrators. We used the spectator bathroom and used washcloths and the public sink as a shower. We thought we were lucky."
...she couldn't, not because she decided not to. In a pre-Title IX environment, her ability to compete for her school was circumscribed, but she won multiple national titles in two sports while a student. That's pretty damn impressive.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Phelps only a student for one year (maybe even one semester)?
So yeah, there is a way to justify it.
Settle down, Shoe. I didn't say she wasn't impressive. I submitted that, if she didn't compete for Michigan, how was she a more qualified "Michigan athlete" than Phelps. It is a technicality but it is what it is.
...their own criteria. Performance while in Ann Arbor, not for U-M. Both of them competed while in A2 but not for U-M. The difference is that she was a student, he wasn't. I give her the nod as a result of that point.
The fault lies with the magazine for failing to clearly explain the criteria. This is all they say:
"U-M athletes who outcompeted, outperformed, and outshone all the rest. Our list comprised those who achieved fame in Ann Arbor—not after."
My argument was, based on their criteria, Phelps qualifies. He attended Michigan (albeit briefly), trained in Ann Arbor for years, and clearly "outcompeted, outperformed, and outshone all the rest." As such, their application of their own criteria is faulty. However, as I mentioned, Micki King is an extremely impressive person.
...counselor. The criteria is indeed squishy.
How about this: There are too many incredible Michigan athletes to fit into a top ten list. Those honorable mentions and others mentioned on this thread (Heston, Chappius, Elliott, Phelps) are Top Ten worthy as well. It's all just splitting hairs.
you were right. phelps doesn't meet the criteria, even though they're not clearly laid out.
listen to your own argument:
"U-M athletes who outcompeted, outperformed, and outshone all the rest. Our list comprised those who achieved fame in Ann Arbor—not after."
phelps had already achieved his fame well before Ann Arbor, not in it.
As much as I would like Michigan to get credit for Phelps, he didn't compete in NCAA competition because he was already pro. He was a student -- I thought for longer than just a semester or a year -- and trained with the team/club, but he didn't participate in the interscholastic swim meets. (There were some unbelieveable Olympians who did, but they weren't as good or famous as Phelps.)
In fairness to the list, they probably had to limit this to athletes to competed for Michigan, not just at Michigan.
Chris Webber never REALLY played for Michigan. That was all a figment of our imaginations. But what wonderful imaginations they were...at least IMHE.
I am very glad that Bennie Oosterban in the first place cv examples!
Kevin Sullivan (track)
Nice to see Don Dufek on the honorable mention list. How much of a badass do you need to be to letter in football AND hockey???
Here's an interesting question for discussion: Is being a two/three/four sport letterman back in the old days more impressive than an All-American in one sport these days? Personally, I say no. To me, a guy like Chad Henne is much more impressive than a guy that I've never heard of lettering in two sports. That's not to say Dufek wasn't a great athlete. I'm just asserting that an athlete today is much more athletic than those years ago (bigger, faster, stronger, etc.). Discuss.
I agree that today athletes are bigger, stronger, and run faster than those of days gone by and I think statistics show that. Why I disagree is because in years long since past, the facilities people had to utilize were far inferior to what we have today. Programs were not nearly as well developed and sports didn't generate nearly the money they do today, so pouring the money back into the program to help better train your athletes couldn't be done.
When considering the differences to the advantages athletes have today, I would even think a one sport athlete with major accomplishments (say in the 1940's) would be more impressive than a one sport athlete with similar accomplishements today, let alone if they were a multisport athlete.This is just my opinion though.
I appreciate your thoughts. Its definitely an interesting discussion . . . How does one judge an "athlete" generally? Do you take the historical situation into context? Did exploits off the field/court count for this ranking? The magazine was unfortunately not forthcoming with its criteria.
You evaluate them in the context of their time. It is too easy to notice that competition develops with time, with improved training, diet, equipment, coaching, and incremental competition. By that measure, there might be second team guys more athletic than Harmon. They aren't greater than him, though. You have to blow away your competition and amaze the fans watching you in order to be great.
That's my opinion. I believe this applies to things other than sports as well.
Perhaps an "all time" Top 10 list is inappropriate. They should have created a Top 10 for every era/decade.
Robbery!
depends on your definition of athlete. today's athletes are much more specialized, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're more athletic.
... Needs to be on that list. All time scoring leader for M basketball, NCAA champion, NCAA tourni MVP, all time single-season scoring record for the tournament. I'm all for recoginizing smaller sports, but this is just a silly omission.
Didn't Ron Kramer also play baseball?
I know, it was before all of you were born. In fact, it was before I was born. However, I recall talking to a father of a friend who played baseball at Michigan in the late 50s and I thought he mentioned Kramer being on the team.
That's nuts.
Bump was the 1947 Silver Football winner (Big Nine Conference MVP). "The best halfback" Fritz Crisler ever saw. All-American, one of the essential leaders of the "Mad Magicians" National Championship team. A starter, and a star, on Michigan's baseball team. A role player on the basketball team and, if memory serves me, a letter-winner on the golf team.(!?) In other words, pretty much like Rick Leach (Ricky was probably a more polished baseball player), except Bump also played basketball and golf, too!
LHB (QB, really) of the 1947 National Champions. Second in the 1947 Heisman voting (losing to Johnny Lujack, in a miscarriage of voting). Batting champ on the 1946 baseball team. Oh, and that thing with Time Magazine:
Just imagine, this year, if Denard Robinson, led Michigan to a National Championship, and finished second in the Heisman balloting, to Andrew Luck. And further imagine that Denard led the Michigan baseball team in hitting. Or set Big Ten sprint records in track. Or was a starting point guard in basketball. Or all of those! Would people think he's one of Michigan's greatest athletes?
It seems impossible, to have omitted Bump Elliott and Bob Chappuis.
...points I've ever seen made by Section 1. Elliott and Chappius certainly seem to be major omissions. They're asking for feedback at the link.
Willie Heston. Quite probably the greatest running back ever to play for Michigan, who probably would have been the first and original "back-to-back Heisman Award winner" before Archie Griffin, if they had had such an award when he played.
According to Knute Rockne, Willie Heston was the best runner he ever saw.
...overlooked Michigan great.
http://bentley.umich.edu/athdept/football/fballam/aaheston.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Heston
as being not just a great Illinois player, and not just one of the best Big Ten football stars, but as being one of the greatest athletes in the history of American sports.
And yet Willie Heston was Red Grange, before there was a Red Grange. Grange was like Babe Ruth, Jack Dempsey and Bobby Jones, in that he was great in an era when the whole country became more interested in sports. And later, Grange could continue to play in that new thing they called the National Football League. (If there had been a "Heisman trophy" invented in 1900, Willie Heston would have been the first to win two of them. Grange might have won two, or even three.)
Willie Heston easily ranks with Tom Harmon and Charles Woodson as Michigan's greatest-ever players.
Kevin Porter, Marty Turco, and of course Red Berenson (the player)
And yeah Des should be top 10. Good list though, some tough calls to be made for sure
Agree, it is a joke that Turco and Porter is on there.
Single-handedly the biggest omission? (Was that in poor taste?)
and I plussed you because I giggled.
Mark Churella - 3x National Champion 77, 78, 79
Joe Warren - 2000 All American then upped his ability and took home gold medals at the 2006 Pan-Am Games, the 2006 FILA Wrestling World Championships and the 2007 Wrestling World Cup
should be on any list ahead of Leach.
They should have limited it to guys who were in LSA. (Consider the title of the magazine.)