Is that you?
spoiler alert: i linked this
Is that you?
That was exactly my thought!
that is freakin hilarious! lmao
This crappy post is on Fresh Meat.
Phil Jackson used to do the same thing all the time. Beilein and Phil are Coaching 401.
Let's all talk. I am here in defense of the OP to a certain degree because I think that emotion got the best of him, which is understandable. OP, Beilein schedules these games to a certain degree to simulate a tournament atmoshpere. This team needed those first ten minutes. Beilein is not a gluton for punishment, he has a freshman point guard, a young to to man, and a likely 4-5 seed in the tourney. This team needs to feel what it is like to be the hunted and not the hunter for a while, it can only do them good.
Beilein does deserve some scrutiny, however, and I believe it is with regard to Hardaway's ineffectiveness. This does not relegate Hardaway to "victim" as he is clearly not going 100% all the time, and that has been a consistent all year. However, it is scheme to a certain degree, and JB needs to find a way to get him in the right place at the right time. The Hardaway prototype is valuable, and GR III is a clone to some degree. Manny Harris found out that "scorers" don't fair well in this system, and that cannot become a pattern. TH Jr. needs 18 shots per game. If they are not coming in the offense, call a TO and change the offense for a while. It is imperative that he gets going, or this is going to be a shorter season than we all hope.
I think you set a world record for saying "certain degree" the most times in a single post.
I did not realize that while I was typing, I guess that is my go to phrase, to a certain degree.
What we are seeing is the flaws that Hardaway still has in his own game. He cannot get his own shot with any consistency and he has no handles. Part of me is happy to see this, as it may convince him that he needs another year in college. "Scorers" can get their own shots when they need to. Hardaway can't at this point. Hopefully his game will continue to develop over the next year or so.
to tighten up. I wont call this loss on the Coaches; however, I want a senior taking that last shot, not a freshman.
Don't you want your best player taking the last shot?
That is clearly Burke.
I wish they'd drawn a better play that could have gotten him free so he could have had the option to kick it out to Hardaway/Novak, but there are far worse things than Burke taking the last shot.
Novak was the only hot shooter in that game, he's a senior, and the leader. If Belein purposely called that play so Burke could shoot the three that's because he wanted Burke to become a hero, he wasn't concerned with percentages
It looked like Trey was supposed to drive and get the two/ kick it out to the open man. EIther the play wasn't very good, whoever was setting the pick failed or Trey simply couldn't shake good defense.
The three was a bad shot but it was borne out of desperation. What did you want? For the inbounds pass to go to Novak?
Michigan shot 40% from the field in the first half and went over 5 minutes scoreless in the second half, including two straight airballed 3s and a layup that hit the bottom of the rim. When exactly were these 30 minutes of outplaying that you saw?
halftime lasts about 20 minutes and we absolutely kicked their ass then so counting those 20 minutes and 5 minutes or so in the first and second half then presto - outplayed 30 minutes.
Look, people can get mad, and that's fine. I'm not saying he is a bad coach or that I want him gone or anything crazy like that, but he cost us this game. It happens, players have bad games, so do coaches. This was a bad game for Beilein. I would love to hear one person put forth a valid reason to not call one timeout when the other team goes up 20 in 10 minutes, which is an absurd feat by the way.
game 12 for 12 or something like that. Ark couldn't miss and we just couldn't catch up till the second half. The positive is this team didn't lay down.
Want a valid reason?
To try and let them weather the storm themselves. To allow them to face adversity on their own, gain some maturity and see if they can come back on the road in a game that would have been nice to win but wasn't a huge deal to lose. Come tournament time, experience like that will be valuable.
I think Coach B knows his team better than we do. The OP wanted a time out and B didn't call one which must mean Coach B is turrible, turrible.
Teams need to figure out how to player led on the floor and not coach directed. Practices are the coach's time, games are the player's time.
There will be a time Coach uses a TO to stem a run, but he's pretty stingy with those things.
To be frank, not every game matters as much. A lot of coaches in basketball don't call time outs during these times to see how their team responds, to see how they learn and grow. Sometimes it is better to have them figure it out and by the end of the season they become much better for it. In basketball, that's fine because you play so many games and what really matters is tourney time. This could help this team grow in the end.
Other times you call the timeout, but it depends on your team, how they react, etc. etc.
Valid reason a coach doesn't always call a timeout every time the other team goes on a run.
It isn't like the game never stopped in the first 10 mins. Their were multiple dead balls and TV timeouts during that run. Each time, Arkansas game out and knocked down another shot. One more TO wouldn't have changed that.
Didn't have a good feeling about this one when I saw how loud the crowd was.
Be proud of the team and how they fought back from down 20 and came up short on a Burke 3 that went in and out.
Wanna know the difference between Beilein and the past two coaches here? When down by 20 on the road in a hostile environment, the team didn't lay down and die like past teams have. They fought to the very end.
Be proud. Michigan will win Tuesday night at purdue.
I am absolutely proud of how the team fought back, there is no doubt about it. And like I said, I like Beilein and he is a good coach. But not calling a single timeout is nonsensical.
Just stop already. Please.
You could stop reading, stop posting, stop doing a lot of things. The CRAZY thing about a message board is sometimes people post things. I know, I know, weird. If you don't like what I posted, then don't read it. Or, actually have something to contribute other than just pretending to be smarter than everyone by only ever criticizing other posts all the time. I'd love to hear you actually say something substantive instead of some smart ass snarky remark like always.
Coaching from your couch? Duh?
I don't think he knows what to do. I'm not in the practices or huddles but I'm guessing JB is telling THJ not to force things, TB to settle down, and Smotz to calm down and relax. He can't help if they don't do that. I get frusterated with JB but in the end he's a great coach.
There were 2 TV timeouts in the first 10 minutes of the game. If that wasn't enough to slow their offense down, I don't think another time out by Coach B was gonna help.
It wasn't John Beilen's fault that Arkansas shot 11/11 in the first 7 minutes or so.
This is exactly the type of post that led to the invention of the term MGoIdiot!
Does Hoke poop MGoldiot?
Maybe he wanted to see his team fight their way back. Find out what their made of, so to speak Seems to have worked pretty well, if you ask me.
Yeah, because when Belein calls a T.O in the first half, we wouldn't of had a timeout on the last possession which was clearly going no where (ie:Belien using his LAST timeout).
Would the win be on Beilein?
100% agree, he did not do enough at the start of the game. Hope he is able to make some adjustments. We can't afford to fall apart like that.
and if he did call timeouts and then we ran out in the 2nd half everybody would be on here criticizing him for wasting them
Like I've been saying: FIRE BEILEIN, HIRE FRESH MEAT.
Head Coach Fresh Meat has a nice ring to it.
im more frustrated by the seeming lack of a playcall on the final play. of course its very possible that burke was just over amped and decided to jack up a 3 on his own. regardless, youve gotta get a higher perecentage shot than that. not only was he fading back, but he had been shooting poorly from 3pt range all night
There was a playcall, it fell apart. Credit Arkansas for playing great defense on the last play. Burke made the best out of the situation, and almost made a game winning shot.
I don't think we drew it up the way it turned out. First, when your PG has to go into the backcourt to receive the ball, that's usually a sign that the inbounds play isn't working. Second, it looked like Smotrycz was supposed to set a screen for Burke, but he didn't get to the spot in time.
You're stretching the definition of the word "we." As the guy who constantly trolls the liveblogs, and declared "game over" during the Sugar Bowl... when the score was 3-0 in the FIRST QUARTER, call me crazy to think you might not exactly be a die-hard.
Wish I could say it was nice knowing you.
And just what in the name of the wide world of sports do you contribute?!
I bring punch and pie. Regularly.
Wait, you're a mod! You can do something about it! (Or at least the race baiting troll in the Novak foul thread).
you've isolated the pattern: difficult to win on the road in college basketball.
If he was 2-8..well you get the idea
Arkansas being unconscious from everywhere on the floor in the first ten minutes. Give them some credit.
their center even hit a turnaround fadeaway 18 footer during that stretch. i damn near fell off my couch.
the brick he threw in when Michigan was making their run. His shot hit the flat back part of the rim and somehow spun in such a way as to roll into the hoop. If it hits anyplace else, fans may have been hurt.
That bucket stopped a 6-0 run by UM and put the lead back to 7 and then Ark turned that into a 6-0 run the other way.
the team has to learn how to play threw adversity in that type of environment to prepare for the tournament , b1G and NCAA where the atmosphere will be very similar. I have no problem with Beilien testing his teams meddle under those circumstances and hey, it almost worked! Bottom line is you have to learn how to win on the road. This will help them going foreword.
I set the over/under on useless cliches in this thread at 1000
Yer battin a thousand Gordie! Defense wins championships!
True dat, but you also have to come out ready to play
100% agree, he did not do enough at the start of the game, regardless of the TOs. Hope he is able to make some adjustments. We can't afford to fall apart like that; looking for #4 over MSU will add some reassurance
I think you managed 3 cliches in 3 sentences. Impressive
Perhaps you are overestimating the powers of the timeout? Timeouts don't score baskets or play defense. And there's a lot more to coaching than calling timeouts.
That could be right...
Beilein and this team have guts. Yes, the team lost but without Beilein's adjustments over the course of the game along with the intense "never give up" attitude, Burke would not have even had an opportunity to win the game at the end.
let's not give beilein any credit for constantly mixing up the D in the second half, which obvioulsy confused them a bit. their TOs skyrocketed and their shooting % plummeted.
Many coaches have a tendency to stick with their original gameplan when it does not work. Many coaches let their egos block their way of making adjustments. I give a ton of credit to Beilein for admitting that his original plan did not work and making the necessary defensive adjustments to get the team back in the game, both score wise and mentally.
i agree with the OP. we start so slow on the road, show no fire and play no D for the first 15 minutes. happened at IU, happened at Iowa. that's coaching. i love beilein, but he has to fix that.
As a coach of a team that also tends to start slow, let me say that your attribution of starting slow to coaching is far overrated.
I realize my team starts slow. We talk about it. We talk about it at practice, before games, and after games. We've changed pre-game routines, practice order. You get the point. The coaches can't go out there and box out with 4th quarter intensity during the 1st quarter for the kids. At some point someone has to step up and do it. Last I checked, coaches aren't out on the floor.
Almost every team starts slow on the road...that's why road wins are so hard against good competition.
I won't put this on Beilein. For us to be in this game to the end, with how we are shooting threes, is incredible. The team did not give up, and dug itself almost out of a huge hole. I do believe that Hardaway and Smotrycz will turn things around soon, which will reflect itself in the win column. I also don't think we will face another team like this for some time, if at all.
Beilein has this team believing in themselves. After today, I believe we will end the year with 21 or 22 wins, win at least one and probably two in the Big 10 tourney, and win at least one, possibly up to three, in the NCAA tourney.
I think that this loss is critical in a good way. It is going to toughen us up enough to win at least three if not four or five games on the road in the conference. I think that this loss will pull Burke, THJ, and possibly Smotz, into a higher plane and different dimension.
The point of calling a TO would have been to settle things down, yes? Well, the TV time-outs didn't do anything to settle them down, and they eventually pulled out of it without timeouts and played damn well. The first 10 minutes were gonna be brutal no matter what happened, and those TOs came in pretty handy down the stretch.
Beyond that, this is a learning experience for more important games later on in East Lansing, Columbus, and the tourney. Long term, I like the way things turned out today... minus the L.
or another decent big man. Why we dont have another like Morgan is a recruiting gaffe I think.
But why do we have to spot every team 20 points while ON THE ROAD?
Seriously. We get blown off the ball for every road game. That isnt a good team when it cannot win on the road.
And when I saw Burke play at start of season, I said to myself that he'll be the best player on the team.....and he is, but you know, this seems to be to the detriment of Hardaway, who seems to be void of the offense with Burke playing. Burke must EFFECTIVELY get Hardaway involved, otherwise kiss the season goodbye.
We're gonna get blown out by MSU in EL, unless they stop spotting teams 20 pts.
You just answered your own question. We do have another big man, but he's injured. Hardaway has to get himself involved in the offense. Half the time he stands at the baseline on the 3pt line and does nothing.
don't blame hardaway's troubles on burke. burke gets him plenty of open looks when he kicks the ball out to him THJ is just missing the shots at an alarming rate anymore. and today, when he drove the basket, he was out of control. that's not on burke either.
The idiots really just come out of the woodwork after a loss. Arkansas shot 70% in the first half. They ran like demons in the first half, especially because this was the biggest home game so far this season. That translated into fatigue and weak legs in the second half which resulted in missed shots and lazy defense from Arkansas, which allowed us to come back in the game. Against a team like Arkansas, and the way the play, a timeout really only benefits them by giving them a breather. Our guys were trying to slow the game down in the first half and conserve energy. Please, feel free to have an opinion, but when you clearly know nothing about the opponent, basketball or the coach, expect to get ripped. =)
Its funny to read through the posts. A lot of people disagree, and that is fine, but probably 70% of the people who disagree don't add a single substantive thing to the discussion.
So because you disagree with me, I know nothing about the opponent, basketball, or the coach? You do not know me, know nothing about how much basketball I have played, coached, or watched. Apparently Beilein and I have starkly different philosophy's about T.O.'s and stemming a run. But your ad hominem attack when you know nothing about me is ridiculous.
You're clearly on the verge of a McFarlin style meltdown. On second thought, keep it up!!!
Who was the last one...Wolverine318?
The mods have gotten way too good at their jobs. Or the really crazy ones have learned to quit just before they go TOO far.
Nice to see that tough guys don't take the weekend off.
Just relax. You start a thread saying a coach is 100% to blame for a loss, no questions asked, and are surprised people disagree. Regardless of your intent, this post comes across as an irrational post from a fair-weather fan, and so people are going to call you out. If you don't like the response, then don't invite it
This poster must be on an account that Jay Bilas and Tommy Amaker share.
Nothing to do with Coach but does anyone know if we scheduled a home and home with Ark?
They're coming to Crisler next year.
The thing is, this is the game you want to lose if you're going to lose one right now. By forcing the team to play through the adversity, you gain that experience for later in the season when you might not have time-outs to use.
I'm not thrilled with the performance today, and obviously it would have been awesome to get this win, but in the grand scheme of things, dropping an out of conference away game is not going to hurt us.
Michigan, outside of Trey Burke, doesn't have the athletes to handle pressure that well. I'm surprised more teams don't press Michigan because of this. You saw MSU make a comeback last year when they started to press (and Michigan only really had Morris to handle the rock against it), and then Arkansas. They actually adjusted to it very well.
The problem is that they didn't respond quick enough, and they should respond quicker. This isn't a moral victory type of thing, they still lost. But I still don't mind not calling a timeout in that situation, it helps a team grow and next time they face pressure like that they will be much better off. It's a game they should have won, ok, but in the long run they will be better. If something they don't respond well to happens come tourney time I expect a timeout and things to be fixed sooner so they can win these games they should, but in this situation it just sucks they lost, nothing more.
I'm interested in hearing Belien's rationale for no timeouts early on. But that game had trouble written all over it from the get-go. To come back as Michigan did was remarkable.
I've been watching Michigan hoops since the 70s and Belien is the best coach we've had since at least Johnny Orr. When something he does turns out badly, that's unusual. I am grateful to have him, and I love this team. All its parts may not mesh enough of the time to reach elite status this season. But we are headed in the right direction.
"Beilein is a good coach, and seems like a good guy, but you will never convince me he is not completely to blame for this one. That is coaching 101." - Fresh Meat
You will also never be convinced that the fact that they were able to control the tempo a little bit in the second half and get within a single possession are indicative of good coaching, right? We struggled early, but I am not going to throw Beilein under the bus for this one. The "L" sucks, but they made it close and made great adjustments after Arkansas' initial tear in the 1st. I'll take the things I saw in this game into the next and say it can lead to a "W". If you're going to lose a tough road game, this might be the one to lose, and it won't kill us at the end.
But you gotta bring it STRONG on the road. This lack of intensity (especially by Novak) is infuriating. Don't these guys want to win. It kills me that they don't give a shit when they stink up the court. Did you see the happy look on Burke's face when his shot rattled out. Total fucking apathy.
The coach needs to call time out and her these Fockers playing!
You just criticized Novak for lack of intensity? The kid comes out every game and works his ass off! All he has is heart and intensity- Not to mention he led our team in scoring and rebounding today. If he was anymore intense he would turn green and be called a The Hulk
Zack Novak was asked to comment on your sarcasm meter. His response:
Well, then I guess that settles everything.
It's a loss - it happens. UM also just beat a top-10 outfit in MSU. That's on a Beilein as well.
Yeah. I hate how Beilein went out there and hit the first 11 of 11 for Arkansas.
YOU SUCK! What do you know about coaching? How many games have you ever won? Michigan lost by two on the road when the 3 point attempt rimmed out at the buzzer. I am sure coach BEILLEIN HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE COMEBACK..../s
So shut up
Friends don't let friends drink and post.
The inside game and high percentage shots. Then start bombing threes. Don't get it. Young team with many players in need of more college time. Eg Hardaway.
that when a team comes back in the 2nd half after a terrible first half and down something like 20 points, and calmly chips away in the 2nd half and only loses at the buzzer, that that has something to do with coaching. What's it called... Making adjustments? Teaching? But who knows what went on in the locker room during intermission.
Does something happen if your thread reaches... -100 downvotes? Because this one is headed in that direction.
No shit huh
John Beilen has compeletely rebuilt this team and made it respectable again. This kind of criticism is the same mentality as micromanagement. With any coach, you take the bad with the good.
Beilein sees the team six days a week counting practice and games; we see the team on TV or live once or twice a week. Sometimes, you just have to look at the big picture and trust the coach to sweat the small stuff.
Our poor 3-point shooting is to blame. Not sure what Beilein can do about that, other than have the players practice their shooting more.
and by blaming a coach completely for a loss, you are simply crediting him totally for every win. yes , it really is that simple. Hoke deserves full credit for the miss by the vt fg kicker, correct?
Blaming a loss on a coach for not calling a time out in the first ten mins of a game is insane. There were TV time outs and there is nothing wrong with letting your team play through a tough stretch. I did it all the time with my team.
Also out played them for 30mins of a 40min game? Did we watch the same game? You lost me before your rant even started
Is to win the B1G and prepare your team for the B1G tournament and NCAA tournament. Playing this game will help down the road should we draw an opponent who uses the same style in NCAA tournament. You guys get way to up over wins and way too down over losses. A game on the road after a gutsy victory over MSU full of emotion and and you wonder why they came out a little slow. Beilein has forgotten more about basketball than you guys know, and got the team to settle down and get back in the game playing good defense with a freshmen point guard.....Get real!
I care way more about the loss to Iowa.
...I clicked on this thread--despite the title completely giving it away as a ludicrous, idiotic viewpoint--was to see how bad you'd be neg-bombed. Alas, it was not enough.