List of Coaches Who Jumped From one Top Tier Big 5 Team to Another
I am working on some diary entries breaking down potential HC candidates outside of the same tired group; mostly to keep my sanity and to feel proud that I can do more homework on hiring our HC than our AD.
In the spirit of that I need your help. As I listen to the yells for the Shaw, Gundy, Sumlin types can you please list for me which head coaches in the past 15+ years have jumped from 1 TOP TIER Big 5 conference team to another.
Two coaches who have jumped sideways or slightly upward from ONE very successful "top 4 in the conference" team to a similar program are Saban and Urban but both had layovers in between their switches so was not a "direct steal" as people are proposing UM should do.
- Saban jumped from LSU to Bama ** (Miami in the NFL in the middle)
- Urban jumped from Florida to OSU** but it required a 1 year stay in the media so it was not like OSU "hired him away" from Florida as we are opining we can so easily do from A&M, Stanford, OK State.
EDIT2 - commentator mentioned Bert Bielema which would be a good example of a direct hire from Wiscy to Arkansas. Actually it is a kind of bad statement for the Big 10 since he went from a top 4 team in the Big 10 to a non top 4 team in the SEC. But it's as close of a "switch" as I can find.
Are there any transitions like that we can think of? And I dont consider Sark from Washington to USC to be in that league. UW is not currently similar to A&M or Stanford or OK State. All 3 of these teams have been top 10ish the past 3-4 years on and off. Washington is more akin to Iowa/Illinois of the Pac 12 in its current state - the 5th to 8th best team in its conference in any 1 year. Same for Mack Brown from NC (ho hum ACC team) to Texas. Not good comparables.
Very good programs like PSU, Texas, USC have taken coaches from Vandy, Louisville, Washington in the past year. Those are the type of schools where top tier programs do pull coaches from 97% of the time. That is very different than taking guys away from A&M, OK State, and Stanford - all 3 of which have fielded multiple top 10ish teams the past 4 years. Their coaches are in sweet spots and in rinse and reload situations annually now without the headache that comes from rebuilding in a crap conference. We might as well go after Bob Stoops if people think pulling Gundy, Shaw, Sumlin is a high probability - all have a litany of reasons to stay which I won't extend this post by explaining.
Summary - I cannot think of any major program (i.e. Texas, USC, Georgia, OSU, Michigan, Alabama, Notre Dame, FSU, Oklahoma, etc) who has pulled a very successful top 10-12ish team's coach out of their program and into theirs. Which is what many here are proposing we can do. Were there a bunch from 7-10-15 years ago that I have missed?
September 28th, 2014 at 3:06 PM ^
saban also has an asterisk. he had a brief cameo as the miami dolphins headcoach, but left mid-season to take the reigns of alabama.
that was before stephen ross bought miami
September 28th, 2014 at 3:18 PM ^
Saban didn't leave the Dolphins mid season. He left after year two. You're probably thinking of good old Bobby Petrino who abandoned the Falcons in like week 13.
September 28th, 2014 at 3:26 PM ^
Close enough. The point is not when he left but the fact it wasnt a direct hire by Bama raiding another top 10 program (LSU). That's what we are trying to get at. I edited the OP to reflect my brain fart on forgetting about Miami.
September 28th, 2014 at 3:06 PM ^
September 28th, 2014 at 3:07 PM ^
Charlie Strong.
September 28th, 2014 at 3:12 PM ^
Louisville is not at all that type of program at all - they were in the American Athletic conference playing South Florida, UConn, Memphis, Cincinnati, Houston.
September 28th, 2014 at 3:15 PM ^
They were in the ACC actually and the argument can certainly be made that they are top 4 in the ACC. After FSU and Clemson who looks better than Louisville. They crushed Miami. Maybe NC St.?
September 28th, 2014 at 3:27 PM ^
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September 28th, 2014 at 3:33 PM ^
Texas hired Strong last year when Louisville at which point Louisville was in the ACC.
The same as Maryland and Rutgers were in the Big10 effectively as soon as last year ended.
September 28th, 2014 at 3:44 PM ^
Cumong man. The argument you are making is if someone hired Rutgers's coach this February, off of a 11-2 season in the AAC, that 11-2 season happened in the Big 10 because technically at the time of the hire of said Rutgers coach, Rutgers was a Big 10 member.
Charlie Strong was not an ACC coach, just like Rutgers and Maryland's coaches were not Big 10 coaches the last 2 years. In fact Rutgers and Louisville shared the same conference last year.
September 28th, 2014 at 4:08 PM ^
No the argument I am making is that Louisville is quite possibly a top 4 team in the ACC this year. Rutgers and Maryland aren't. Charlie Strong was not under any circumstances going to be coaching in the American. He was either going to the ACC or the Big12. So he left an opportunity to be a potential top 4 team in the ACC to go to Texas.
September 28th, 2014 at 3:38 PM ^
2013 - American Athletic Conference
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Louisville_Cardinals_football_team
2012 - Big East
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Louisville_Cardinals_football_team
After 2012 I believe from memory the Big East folded for football and remaining teams went into the new AAC.
AAC is not the ACC.
September 28th, 2014 at 3:46 PM ^
They had a deal with the ACC when Strong left. He knew if he stayed he would be in the ACC. They were in an ACC team when he left. The ACC voted to add them in 2012.
September 28th, 2014 at 3:10 PM ^
Brett Bielama definitely jumped from a top tier job.
September 28th, 2014 at 3:15 PM ^
Ok better example. In a way that is a damning example as he didnt even leave to go to a top tier SEC team.
September 28th, 2014 at 3:11 PM ^
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September 28th, 2014 at 3:18 PM ^
Lane Kiffen left a program that based on history should be a top tier job.
September 28th, 2014 at 3:20 PM ^
Lane Kiffin (Tennessee to USC)? Maybe Rick Neuheisel back when he jumped from Colorado to Washington in the late 1990s?
September 28th, 2014 at 3:49 PM ^
I would agree with Kiffin if it was Fulmer's Tennessee. We are talking about "stealing" Gundy, Sumlin, Shaw as their programs are top 10-12 in the nation. Kiffin had 1 year at Tennessee at 7-6 so not a parallel to the type of guys people are proposing we swipe.
Neuheisal's last 2 seasons at Colorado were 5-6, 8-4 before he went to Washington. Sumlin, Shaw, Gundy are coming off multiple 10+ wins seasons stacked together.
September 28th, 2014 at 4:37 PM ^
and it was certainly a high profile job.
Ty Willingham went from a ranked Stanford to ND.
Saban left MSU for LSU. He had built up a pretty good team first.
RR coming here should qualify. We didn't talk about 5 power conferences then because the best Big East programs were still all there.
You're using a very subjective standard. I think all of these could easily qualify. Tennessee was a high level job. MSU and WVU were coming off top ten rankings. If you're looking only for coaches moving directly from a top tier job with a powerhouse team at the moment, you may not find any.
September 28th, 2014 at 3:20 PM ^
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September 28th, 2014 at 3:21 PM ^
Les Miles "jumped" from OK State to LSU. However, OK State wasn't on their current level. Miles took OK State to the Houston, Cotton and Alamo bowls his last three years. It was definitely considered a huge upward move at the time.
September 28th, 2014 at 3:21 PM ^
Steve Spurrier went the Nick Saban route as well.
September 28th, 2014 at 3:28 PM ^
Saban left MSU (9-2 his last year...beat ND, OSU, U of M, Penn St) for LSU. Left between the regular season finale and the bowl game.
September 28th, 2014 at 3:54 PM ^
Right but MSU was 6-6, 7-5, 6-6, and 9-2 in years leading into Saban's departure to LSU. So 3 of those teams were mid tier Big 10, like 6th to 8th place teams.
That is very different than stealing the type of guys we are proposing who are top 2-3 in their conference over 3*-4 years.
My larger point with this piece is what we are proposing is virtually unheard of. One program going into another program and stealing a coach who has led that team to the top tier of its Big 5 conference and perennial 10+ win status. But people throw it around like "all Michigan needs to do is show up and shove money down very successful coach's throat and we good. It happens all the time" This was a program Greg Schiano turned down.
September 28th, 2014 at 3:33 PM ^
and I will follow along with the work you do. But I am not sure any of it will apply here. Michigan is not a top 4 in the conference type of team right now, and other coaches who are leading top teams would need some reason to come here.
Money might be a reason, but the other schools would most likely match it an offer an extension to keep their guys around. A guy would need some Michigan connection to want to come here as well. Now, perhaps they can find an ego guy, someone who wants the challenge of turning around a program and perhaps rising back to prominence.
I think it will actually come down to guys in the big conferences who have taken their talent and got the most out of it to get to bowl games. Not that he is a candidate or that I am endorsing him, but Gary Pinkel at Mizzou for instance. He has moved into the SEC and won while acclimating to a new league and competing for talent with the likes of Bama, Auburn, A&M, South Carolina...and on and on.
September 28th, 2014 at 3:35 PM ^
If your Dan Mullen or maybe even Les Miles if your serious about winning a title your path to one in the Big10 is a lot easier than it is in the SEC West.
September 28th, 2014 at 4:04 PM ^
Well the equation for this has FROM and TO
The FROM team would need to be the "top 3-4" team in a BCS conference who has been ranked top 10-15 annually for a few years with a successful coach people want to steal.
The TO team need not be "top 4" - the whole idea why they have a coaching vacancy is they currently suck. So TO would be a blue blood program with deep pockets i.e. Michigan, Tennessee, Notre Dame (prior to Kelly), Alabama 7 years ago, etc
So the full equation is:
FROM (top 3ish in conference type, annual top 10-12ish overall in Big 5 conference team) TO (a top tier blue blood PROGRAM who is currently down...)
And I can't really find too many examples. Meanwhile the working thesis by quite a few is to throw out a lot of "FROM" candidates (Sumlin, Gundy, Shaw etc) and expect them to walk on glass to Michigan as long as you throw them $6M. As best as I can tell no one has pulled this off in the past 15 years.
Almost universally the hire into a blue blood program comes from
- (a) top team in non Big 5 conference
- (b) coordinator from top team in Big conference or
- (c) up and coming head coach from Big 5 conference in tier 2 (i.e middle of the pack but overachieving type team)
Less common is pull a guy from the NFL.
Almost never has the equation been
- (d) take away coach from other top tier Big 5 conference team on a parallel move
September 28th, 2014 at 4:06 PM ^
Your criteria seem pretty restrictive, which could by where there are so few examples. Another way of approaching this is to look at all of the times that a then-struggling, historic powerhouse replaced its coach over the last 10-20 years and classify where those coaches came from. I'd imagine the categories would look something like:
- assistant from own program
- head coach from major conference (maybe highlighting the "top programs" as you define it)
- assistant coach from major conference
- head coach from smaller conference
- NFL head coach
- NFL assistant coach
- Derek Dooley
September 28th, 2014 at 4:32 PM ^
Right. It is purposefully restrictive because these 3 coaches have unique characteristics. They are coaches either at or top of their conferences, in a Big 5 conference, who are routinely pulling off 10+ wins and have their programs at a very high gear.
These are also 3 candidates you routinely see from the fanbase in "who we should go hire".
Generally you don't go and take those coaches away from said programs.
September 28th, 2014 at 3:38 PM ^
I mean, Rich Rodriguez, no? West Virginia isn't on the Florida, Texas, USC level but Rodriguez had them rolling along pretty darn good when he left.
September 28th, 2014 at 4:08 PM ^
Ironically they might be the best example. Big East was still somewhat valid of a conference back then when we still had 6 power conference.
Jackpot!
September 28th, 2014 at 10:24 PM ^
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September 28th, 2014 at 3:39 PM ^
September 28th, 2014 at 3:48 PM ^
September 28th, 2014 at 4:21 PM ^
Right but we are not talking about pulling out a mid tier coach - we are talkihg about taking either the 1st, 2nd, 3rd most sought after coach out of another conference who has that program surging
OK State has been #2 in Big 12 behind Oklahoma for the past half decade as Texas fell off, Stanford has been #1 and #2 with Oregon, and Texas A&M is in a much deeper conference and has not been #1 and #2 in conference but a top 10-13 type of team overall with Sumlin; and currently #6 in the nation.
I ilke your examples so I am not shooting holes at you - just reviewing the data:
- ASU was really good 2 years before OSU came calling for Cooper but the year they actually took him he was coming off a 7-4-1 season.
- Barnett was 5-7 and 3-9 in the 2 years before he left for Colorado.
- Mike Price - hmm looking over his record he had about 15 years at Washington State which again is more like an Iowa with ups and downs. He had a long mediocre record until spiking his last 2 years at WSU before Bama came calling. He was 3-8, 3-9, 4-7, 10-2, and 10-3 at WSU in his last 5 years. Before that he had 9 years at WSU, with only 3 years over 7 wins. Reminds me more of Brady Hoke than anything, a guy who parlayed a lot of mediocre seasons and a big run towards the end of his reign into a new job.
Mack Brown would probably be the closest parallel outside of Rich Rod and Beilema.
September 28th, 2014 at 4:26 PM ^
Auburn is a fine example of a blue blood that was down on its luck at the time so a good example on that end. Problem was Tuberville was 6-5, 5-6, 8-4 and 6-5 at Ole Miss. 3 of the 4 years he had a losing record in the SEC; the 4th year he was 4-4.
So basically he was Dan Mullen of his era I guess.
September 28th, 2014 at 3:39 PM ^
Nebraska to Kansas to Stanford to Michigan.
Kipke
Michigan State to Michigan
Mackovic
Illinois to Texas
Agase
Northwestern to Purdue
Young
Arizona to Purdue
Parsegian
Northwestern to Notre Dame
September 28th, 2014 at 3:59 PM ^
Bear Bryant - he had A&M in the top 10 his last two years there before going to Alabama but I guess he would fit your comparison to Mack Brown.
September 28th, 2014 at 4:56 PM ^
Michigan isn't a top program...so the list should be bigger.
Miami is no different, then say Miami (FL) right now. If we got Golden, some would consider that a lateral move...in this exercise it seems like it wouldn't qualify because it would be an obvious step up.
Same with Butch Jones at Tennessee. What's the difference between us and them? Louisville, NC State, Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech, Oklahoma St., West Virginia, TCU, Washington, Oregon St., Arizona St., UCLA, South Carolina, Mississippi St., etc.
Sure in the 90s and when it comes to resources these teams weren't/aren't in our league...But over the last 5-10 years, Michigan would be lucky to be in a class with these teams. On paper, going to Michigan is a big jump in name...but that's it.
Michigan, Texas, Florida...all they've been as of late is just a name. Going from one of those schools to one of these isn't as big of a jump as it sounds, hell, it may not be a jump at all in some cases.
So I understand the point of this is to prove that people need to shut up about Saban, Sumlin, etc. - they do. But my problem is, Michigan isn't anywhere NEAR the Saban, Sumlin, etc. level
Neither was Texas. That's why they struck out on their first 9 candidates, because they thought they were at that level. They ended up with Strong, coming from a school that was on their plateau...Louisville. That's a tough pill to swallow for Texas fans, but it's the truth. Texas isn't Alabama right now and hasn't been for quite some time. Same goes for Michigan.
September 28th, 2014 at 5:19 PM ^
spot on - except its actually much worse bc between florida, texas and michigan 2 of those 3 have won BSC titles in past decade
September 28th, 2014 at 5:08 PM ^
Brian Kelly--Cincy was becoming a dominant program in a weakening Big East. At the time, however, they still had WVU,Syracuse, Pitt, etc. It wasn't the mess it has been, as a conference, in the 5 years since.
September 28th, 2014 at 5:18 PM ^
The only think i disagree with that Michigan is not a top tier team and has not been for 8 years. Not many great coaches will want this dumpster fire!
September 28th, 2014 at 5:52 PM ^
Washington mentioned in the same breath as Vanderbilt? Ouch. I remember those Rose Bowls against them 20 years ago . . . can't believe it's been that long.