Lewerke concussion controversy continues
A leading concussion expert has weighed in. I think Dantonio is pushing all his chips in and knows Lewerke is his only shot. Jeopardizing a players health is despicable though. I just think this is a really bad look for MSU.
https://mobile.twitter.com/ChrisNowinski1/status/1195028113152978945
November 14th, 2019 at 2:13 PM ^
Is there any other look for MSU other than a bad one?
November 14th, 2019 at 3:22 PM ^
They conceded that battle when they decided to wear those uniforms.
November 14th, 2019 at 4:26 PM ^
All jokes aside, this is some really serious, dangerous sh*t if he walks out there and plays while not 100% healthy. A couple big hits in the wrong way could cause long term serious damage to the kid. This is really playing with fire.
When a boxer gets "punch drunk", he is in a very vulnerable state and it is up to the ring manager/ref to call the fight. Unfortunately, this gets missed a lot in the ring and you see deaths and debilitating brain injuries in the heat of battle.
Really hope that if the kid plays, he is indeed 100% and nothing tragic or long term happens. It would be shitty for the kid, them, us, the sport, etc. Hoping they do right by the kid and all the athletes and make sure he is 100%.
November 14th, 2019 at 2:16 PM ^
Link isn't working, for me at least.
Edit: Here's the tweetstorm text:
I have serious questions surrounding the medical care of Michigan State QB Brian Lewerke & his apparent concussion in the Illinois game last week. Based on the player’s self-report, I believe Lewerke should be diagnosed with a concussion.
Disclosure: MSU invited me to lecture on concussions & CTE last year, & I have a tremendous amount of respect for the medical team. But I feel the need to speak up as I believe public statements are setting the wrong example for youth sports on concussion recognition & response.
Video: Watch MSU QB Brian Lewerke run left and strike his head on an opponent's knee. He is clearly slow to get up, and his teammate immediately waived to the sideline, presumably for medical help. He stayed in the game. The next play he threw a bad interception.pic.twitter.com/hvreJEvBzj
In retrospect, the interception appears caused by the hit, as postgame he admitted he had acute #concussion symptoms in that moment: “My head was ringing for a little bit, but it was nothing serious, I don’t think. It was a tough hit and definitely rung my bell for a little bit.”
Self-reporting is the GOLD STANDARD for diagnosing a concussion. Lewerke admits the symptoms of a concussion, but uses a euphemism, "bell rung." I think he should have been diagnosed with a concussion due to that self-report.
Despite clear signs of a concussion, Lewerke did not go through a #concussion protocol in-game. Coach Dantonio: “No, we didn't go through any protocol. We looked at him very quickly. I asked him & he said he's good, & he motioned that to our trainers as well, so he just went on.”
This is now MSU's statement (1/2): "Upon returning to the sideline late in the fourth quarter with under five minutes remaining, Brian Lewerke was given a symptom assessment by our medical staff. After not showing signs of a concussion, he was cleared to play.”
It's important to point out that being given "a symptom assessment" is not going through a full concussion protocol. My read is this is a tacit admission he was not fully evaluated, but they know he should have been.
MSU also said: (2/2) “As a precautionary measure, Brian was given further testing the following day, & was once again determined not to have a concussion. I strongly disagree. The concussion evaluation he was given the next day DOES NOT TRUMP that he said TWICE his bell was rung
In 2019, I can no longer accept a major college, who makes a lot of money from football, claiming an athlete showing #concussion signs & admitting his bell was rung is not a #concussion.
It's possible that Lewerke is now being medically handled like he has a concussion, and the team’s statements are trying to protect their reputation, avoid liability, or even protect Lewerke’s draft status by not calling it a concussion.
Sorry to stir up a hornet's nest, but I can't let the university undo years of public education by disregarding clear #concussion signs, passing off a symptom check as a full sideline evaluation, and dismissing a clear self-report.
If a coach or parent follows this lead & doesn't give a full sideline #concussion evaluation to a child who gets up slowly after a hard head impact, & then ignores them admitting their "bell was rung", returning them to play could lead the child dying from second-impact syndrome
Thank you @chrissolari for reporting on this and asking good questions, but I don’t think this story is over. I’d love to know the answers to the questions in this thread.
November 14th, 2019 at 2:20 PM ^
It works for me. TLDR version: Concussion expert weighs in by saying that "self-reporting is the GOLD STANDARD" (emphasis his) for a concussion determination, and Lewerke self-reported by admitting he got his "bell rung." Thinks Lewerke may be in treatment for a concussion with MSU not admitting it to protect their reputation. (But who would believe that out of them??) Slams MSU for not treating him properly and not being forthright.
November 14th, 2019 at 2:39 PM ^
What would we expect from the medical college that let nassar practice there for so many years???
If he doesn't play on Saturday, they will NOT say it is a concussion, it will be a groin injury suffered in practice or some equivalent BS.
Lies and deception run deep on the banks of the red cedar!
November 14th, 2019 at 2:50 PM ^
You have to trust MSU doctors, who never are problematic. Gold standard for physicians they are!
November 14th, 2019 at 6:17 PM ^
What reputation do they even have left to protect?
I suppose at this point, endangering their own students IS their reputation, so maybe that’s what they’re protecting? Sparty on!
November 14th, 2019 at 2:29 PM ^
if they're not reporting hundreds of rapes, do you think a concussion will even move the meter for them?
November 14th, 2019 at 3:31 PM ^
Really don't even think they have a meter.
November 14th, 2019 at 2:59 PM ^
If you put Harbaugh and Shea's names in that story, this is a national scoop and First Take is going on and on and on every morning about the reckless culture in Ann Arbor. Dantonio is lucky his program isn't that relevant nationally because we would be getting absolutely roasted if this was us
November 14th, 2019 at 4:19 PM ^
Yes. It's a good indirect measure of how much more relevant Michigan (the university) is than Sparty.
November 14th, 2019 at 2:18 PM ^
I've been amazed this week at the general reasonableness from MSU fans in response to this. Maybe it's a function of already wanting Dantonio gone, but the handling of Lewerke's concussion has been almost universally condemned as a fireable offense. When even the folks at the RCMB are coming off as reasoned and principled... You done screwed up.
November 14th, 2019 at 2:30 PM ^
What's even more shocking is that it was bad enough for the fanbase to start to grumble but surprisingly little is happening in the news media. I still maintain that Shane Morris was a far more egregious example but the media outrage was everywhere.
November 14th, 2019 at 3:00 PM ^
The core of what happened in both cases is the same, but the differences in circumstance are quite different.
1) Michigan gets a lot more attention, good and bad, than MSU.
2) Lewerke didn't spend the preceding 3 quarters getting killed to the point the announcers had long since started calling for him to be pulled even before he was concussed.
3) Our game was a blowout with zero other intrigue other than Morris, MSU's game turned into a thrilling comeback 1 play after the incident with the pick six.
November 14th, 2019 at 3:35 PM ^
Part of #2 was that Morris starting over Devin Gardner had been the big "storyline" for the game. Even before Morris reinjured his ankle, our offense was doing nothing and we had a 3-year starter available on the bench. But then he became visibly injured and it changed from a question of strategy to one of health.
November 14th, 2019 at 3:55 PM ^
You spoke way too soon. Read this article where the faithful dispute Chris' ability to do anything since he's a PH.D, not an MD, and the fact that he's formerly involved with WWE, so he's not to be trusted. Also, any Spartan fan who thinks that there's any truth to this is a Walvie or someone trying to get rid of Dantonio who has not done anything wrong... ever.
https://247sports.com/college/michigan-state/board/93/Contents/cte-expert-says-msu-did-not-do-enough-with-lewerke-138563423/?page=1
November 14th, 2019 at 3:59 PM ^
Nobody gives a fuck about MSU.
November 14th, 2019 at 2:36 PM ^
Sorry, but don't be dumb. OF COURSE it is a function of them already wanting D'antini gone. You can bet your life if they were in the midst of a 9-0 season, this would be a non-story, more evidence that everyone wants to destroy MSU!!! In fairness, if Hoke had won a couple B1G titles, many (not all, but many) UM fans would have rationalized-away the Shane Morris fiasco...
November 14th, 2019 at 6:23 PM ^
Unfortunate but absolutely true.
November 14th, 2019 at 3:01 PM ^
100% it's because they're over Dantonio. If this was 5 years ago, RCMB would be saying everyone is stirring this up because they're jealous of MSU's success and are looking for ways to trip them up
November 14th, 2019 at 2:18 PM ^
I think the public pressure is going to lead Dantonio to sitting Lewerke
I kid, I kid.... he’s gonna start him and probably sit him only after they are down by 20 in the 3rd. If it’s close... he’ll play until he’s knocked out
November 14th, 2019 at 2:53 PM ^
This is correct he will start. The only people thinking he won't are the same who thought OSU would actually have to sit Young 4 games instead of missing the two weakest games of the season.
Neither situation matters either way though. It will be what it will be.
November 14th, 2019 at 2:18 PM ^
God help Lewerke if he gets his bell rung again Saturday.
November 14th, 2019 at 2:24 PM ^
Ding Ding
November 14th, 2019 at 3:03 PM ^
By the end of the game (hopefully):
November 14th, 2019 at 3:05 PM ^
Funny thing about that scene. The ref had already tried to stop it. Drago threw him across the ring and just continued to pummel Creed's face. What, exactly, was a towel going to do?
November 14th, 2019 at 3:21 PM ^
Has a Stallone flick ever made sense?
November 14th, 2019 at 3:37 PM ^
Now you just ruined the movie for me, I hope your (Sparty week) happy.
And you can see the glass partition during the snake scene in Indiana Jones.
November 14th, 2019 at 3:37 PM ^
Yes, it was not until THIS moment in Rocky FOUR that I started to question the credibility of the Rocky movies. It wasn't the scene in Rocky Three where Rocky lets Clubber hit him at will in the head to help him "get mad." Uh huh... :-D
November 14th, 2019 at 3:39 PM ^
That was just good strategy.
November 14th, 2019 at 6:13 PM ^
Don’t do this to me, Mo
November 14th, 2019 at 2:29 PM ^
My guess is that Dantonio is playing this up in hopes that we will ease off on the pass rush, and slow down when we get close to Lewerke, rather than going full tilt for a sack.
November 14th, 2019 at 2:44 PM ^
Lol what? If he wants to get his QB killed, that's on him. We shouldn't call off the dogs.
November 14th, 2019 at 2:49 PM ^
Not chance. I played a lot of football and I promise you their mindset (we can debate whether it's right or wrong) is to hit him HARDER knowing he's coming off a concussion. I wouldn't even be surprised if one of our guys gets a targeting penalty against him on Saturday.
November 14th, 2019 at 3:02 PM ^
Vicious hits are one thing, but i can't get behind targeting.
November 14th, 2019 at 6:43 PM ^
He isn't condoning it, just pointing out that it's likely to happen. It is.
November 15th, 2019 at 8:59 AM ^
Yeah and if anybody does it intentionally they are a piece of trash. Why are you trying to injury someone just because its a rivalry game? I hope no player has that mindset.
November 14th, 2019 at 3:14 PM ^
I think the culture is changing rapidly. Players have always understood that the only safe way to play football is to go 100% on every play. You still celebrate a clean, hard hit. But what's different today is an awareness about CTE. You want your opponents to feel it tomorrow morning after a hard game. You don't want them considering Junior Seau's sacrifice 20 years later. The trash-talking ends after the game when you shake hands. For the most part, it always has. CTE rightfully scares the crap out of players.
November 14th, 2019 at 6:42 PM ^
Unless you’re Vontaze Burfict or the Toledo guy last night.
https://twitter.com/cruzcontrol75/status/1194816161315201024?s=21
November 14th, 2019 at 4:15 PM ^
I mean, stated that way I hope it isn't a debate about whether that mindset is right or wrong--to want to hit someone even harder and possibly with targeting expressly because you know they already have a concussion?
I can see saying that you should not ease up due to that knowledge but to try even harder because he had a concussion? That's pretty ill to me.
November 15th, 2019 at 12:15 AM ^
It's equally, if not more, likely that one of our players gets inappropriately flagged for targeting because the refs are subconsciously (maybe) protecting Lewerke..
November 14th, 2019 at 3:11 PM ^
Right, because that's what Dantonio would coach his players to do.
Let's be real.
November 14th, 2019 at 6:02 PM ^
Oh he will and it will be a targeting call to keep MSU hopes alive for a short while
November 14th, 2019 at 2:18 PM ^
I see Beekman and Manuel just co-released a message to fans to behave at the game.
Must be they are afraid of it (the game) turning in to a shit show.
November 14th, 2019 at 2:41 PM ^
Will students be bringing bells to the game?
November 14th, 2019 at 3:00 PM ^
MOAR COWBELLS!
November 14th, 2019 at 2:19 PM ^
It doesn't matter whether he had a concussion. What matters is that MSU would not have known if he did because they did not follow the requisite practices and procedures in diagnosing concussions. This is a bad look.
November 14th, 2019 at 3:08 PM ^
The officials also have a responsibility here. They are the closest to the player and can have him pulled out for at least a play. This was an epic failure on all fronts.
November 14th, 2019 at 2:21 PM ^
Rewatched the game and have two somewhat conflicting opinions (and I dislike Dantonio quite a bit).
First, the hit happened fast, Lewerke popped up and said he was okay, and everybody went about their business. A teammate DID call for help, that DID get ignored, and he did throw an INT--and looked wonky--afterward.
Second, this has got to be why you keep sharp people, including medical personnel, around. They didn't come into play, and that's quite troubling.