Let's revisit an old thread: "What are your real expectations if we get Harbaugh"?
1. A lot that said Hoke recruited well and that Harbaugh shouldn't have too much trouble early on
2. A lot of "Big Ten title and playoff appearance by year 5 as he had Stanford to 12-1 in four years
3. Beat OSU 50 percent of the time and get back on even footing with them
4. Have the roster fully stocked
5. Develop NFL QBs
So after 5 years one of those has happened I guess...the first one. Do with it what you want.
December 2nd, 2019 at 3:36 PM ^
Was there anything about Pitbull banners that nobody really understand, but still jinx the team anyway?
December 2nd, 2019 at 4:12 PM ^
Hmm odd, I don’t see any mentions of SP+ ranking expectations either...
December 2nd, 2019 at 6:40 PM ^
SP+ is a good indicator of a team’s true ranking. Not sure why you are continually bashing it ? Stop trolling and have some real material to back your opinions.
December 2nd, 2019 at 7:30 PM ^
Yeah except no one uses them when they reference a ranking. AP, Coaches, and playoff are the only ones people remember.
December 2nd, 2019 at 8:29 PM ^
I'd say actual wins and losses are a good indicator of a team's true ranking.
December 2nd, 2019 at 3:37 PM ^
Anyone who’s honest will say that they’re at least somewhat disappointed.
The roster holes and bowl game wet farts are more vexing to me, personally, than Harbaugh’s inability to beat a super elite OSU.
December 2nd, 2019 at 3:48 PM ^
I'm definitely disappointed, but we also need to remember that the best team doesn't always win. There is luck involved in football.
In 2016, Michigan wins if the JT spot gets called correctly and that game doesn't even go to OT if the officiating isn't obnoxiously bad. Michigan likely wins the B10 and goes to the CFP. In 2017, Michigan probably wins as a big underdog if Metulus catches an easy interception. In 2018, Michigan goes to the B10 championship and likely wins a rematch against Northwestern if a Maryland player catches an easy 2 point conversion.
If any of those events change, recruiting probably improves, and the current talent gap between Michigan and OSU is much less.
December 2nd, 2019 at 4:00 PM ^
Didn't we sign a top 5 class in 2017 where a ton of players have either not panned out or transferred?
December 2nd, 2019 at 8:20 PM ^
Pretty much. A lot of that class has departed.
December 2nd, 2019 at 4:03 PM ^
Most top 15’ish teams could have the exact same thing said about them - outside of the OSU screw job.
I’m glad Harbaugh got UM to the top 10-15 level, but I thought he’d get us into the next echelon of teams. I don’t want him fired, but I’ve tempered my expectations a lot. He’s basically Franklin with lesser recruiting until the results on the field prove it otherwise.
December 2nd, 2019 at 4:16 PM ^
Thank you for summing up my feelings pretty well. I don't want to see Harbaugh fired... because I don't want to hop back on the coaching carousel of misery and self-loathing. But we didn't hire Harbaugh to get us back to good-- we hired him expecting to get us to great.
December 2nd, 2019 at 7:03 PM ^
Spot on...Harbaugh was hired to bring greatness back to Michigan. Period. Not to win 9-10 games. He was hired to win B10 titles...Beat OSU...get us in Playoffs. Not for one second was he hired so we could feel good about 9-10 wins.
He has had 5 years and he has failed to:
1. Have Michigan be anything other than the 3rd best team in the B10
2. Develop any QB he has recruited to be a top 3 B10 QB, much less an NFL QB.
3. 0-5 against OSU with the most historic ass kicking in Michigan history.
4. Fail to recruit elite talent on either side of the ball with regularity.
5. His teams lack execution / discipline and continue to make mistakes at crucial moments in key games.
6. Bowl performances have been pathetic with teams looking unprepared and apathetic.
Based on WHY Harbaugh was hired, he has failed. And looking at our roster, I don't see these results changing anytime soon.
December 2nd, 2019 at 7:48 PM ^
#5 is my only real concern as that is so much under Harbaugh's coaching and without inference from other people. The lack of a two minute or four minute pace is painful to watch. There seems to be at least one embarraing coach gaff in every loss.
Bowl performance is totally excusable. FSU without best player on offense and defense (Butt, Peppers) almost won but for flukie KO return (unsportsmanlike?) plus a great TD play. USC was with #6, 7, 9th best o-linemen, Florida finished with 4 starters on defense. Blame Harbaugh for depth?
IF, IF, IF Grant Newsome isn't shin blocked by Wisconsin then Michigan would be likely to have (stretch?) 2 additional wins against OSU, 1 more against Iowa, MSU, ND, and USC. (With half of those, this is a different conversation.)
Edit: See OkinawaGoBlue note below. Wisconsin not PSU
December 2nd, 2019 at 8:14 PM ^
Newsome injury was vs Wisconsin, no?
December 2nd, 2019 at 8:38 PM ^
Crud. I hate making mistakes. You are correct. It was at Wisconsin. Thank you taking the time to set me straight or else I would have gone that route again.
December 2nd, 2019 at 4:16 PM ^
Not gonna lie, that's a lot of "if's"...At some point, "if's" are just excuses.
I'm not picking on your post. Admittedly, I've made similar comments in the past. But - guh - UM seems to have more "if's" than any other team. After a while, I think our "if's" are bad explanations for why we didn't win. We are who we are.
December 2nd, 2019 at 10:25 PM ^
Bad officiating isn't "luck," it's closer to cheating. A human being made a decision, they didn't flip a coin to decide if it's a first down or not.
December 2nd, 2019 at 10:39 PM ^
The problem with your theory is that you can make that same argument for either side. So many plays are made during the game that while some stick out to the home team others stick out to the visiting team. UM receivers could have caught more balls and JK could have lost that fumble instead of bouncing back into his hands but it didn't happen that way. The JT spot went to OSU but I bet there were many other plays that could have went a different way as well if we went back to re watch from the beginning. Hell, tonight Russell Wilson tried batting the ball down but batted it right to a Vikings defender that ran it back for a TD.
I recall an old coach stating that we need to dominate the game as to not leave it up to the ref.
December 3rd, 2019 at 2:08 AM ^
"Don't leave it up to the refs" refers to a situation where one call is the deciding factor. In those situations, the saying holds water. In the 2016 game, it wasn't one situation. It was a litany of bad calls throughout the second half that directly resulted in OSU climbing back into a game they had no business being in. I've re-watched that game, playing devils advocate, looking for anything the other side could even stretch to consider unfair the other way... Nothing. Not one thing. The officiating in that game was disgusting, bordering on criminal.
December 2nd, 2019 at 4:00 PM ^
The bowl game farts are a direct result of not being able to beat Ohio State. It's really hard to get up for a bowl game in this day and age when you have a chance to beat Ohio State and get in the playoff. Or lose a heartbreaker to them. Last year no one wanted to be in the Peach Bowl and it showed. I also don't really give a shit about how the team does in a bowl game, they're exhibitions.
The roster holes are significantly more infuriating.
December 2nd, 2019 at 4:05 PM ^
Orange Bowl was also kind of unlucky. Lose Peppers a couple days before the bowl game when he is the entire game plan to Dalvin Cook.
Loss to South Carolina was horrible... That was a BAD team.
December 2nd, 2019 at 4:10 PM ^
There’s nothing unlucky about a special teams coverage bust resulting in a touchdown.
It was just another form of the maddeningly typical late game collapse (which has lost us at least one OSU game, if not two).
December 2nd, 2019 at 11:45 PM ^
The biggest problem I have with the roster is the interior defensive line. They aren't big enough. I don't think Carlo Kemp is a nose.
The size of the interior defensive line should be a priority every year. Michigan paid this year mostly against Wisconsin and Ohio St for the size of the interior defensive line.
December 2nd, 2019 at 4:06 PM ^
This seems like a fair take. At the time people were making these predictions were they also predicting what appears to be the consolidation of strength into the hands of a few teams as brought on, by at least in part, the 4 team playoff structure.
20 possible berths since 2015.
Clemson 4
Alabama 5
Oklahoma 3
Ohio State 2
6 other teams with 1 each. So 70% of berths by 4 teams and 10 teams total.
Compare this to the top four rankings at end of seasons 2009-2013 (not quite apples to apples, but should be representative)
20 total top 4 rankings
Alabama 3
Oregon 3
Auburn 2
12 other teams with 1 each. So 45% to top 4 teams and 15 teams total.
December 2nd, 2019 at 4:37 PM ^
Very good point. I don't think anyone saw this consolidation of power coming. Or not many people at any rate. Every team used to have down years. Now Alabama's "down" year is 2 losses by 8 points. OSU's down year is losing to a random football team on the road because 20 year old men are sometimes boys. Clemson doesn't play in a real conference anymore.
After the LSU/Alabama rematch I was glad to see the playoff arrive, now I think it's the worst thing to happen to college ball since conference expansion. No, expanding to more playoff teams doesn't make it better, it just makes the other bowls and teams even less relevant.
December 2nd, 2019 at 5:49 PM ^
Okay, but Alabama is also on a historical level of success....even higher than OSU. Do you think Auburn fans don't expect to compete with Alabama? They've certainly competed and then some, they're 4-6 in the last 10 years and won the SEC in 2013 and 2017.
December 3rd, 2019 at 12:17 AM ^
I think you hit the nail on the head with the Auburn-Alabama comparison. OSU is on a decade-long tear. I don't realistically think we can unseat them as THE B1G power any time soon, but I was at least expecting to be an Auburn-like foil that at least posed a realistic threat to OSU by now.
December 2nd, 2019 at 4:34 PM ^
I’ll be the first to admit disappointment. I couldn’t have foreseen that OSU was going to go into the stratosphere, but I expected that the NFL credentials would have a bigger impact: more top recruits thinking Harbaugh can get them to the NFL, more NFL schematics, and a top flight staff of assistants
December 2nd, 2019 at 8:09 PM ^
The QB, CB and DT positions have a crater of incompetence that I thought would never happen with Harbaugh. Moving Hudson to tackle was some dumb shit. Putting all your faith in a 5 star DT who de-committed, said "Fuck Michigan" and then announced his commitment to the university of Miami was some dumb shit. The priority of recruiting guys over 6' instead of athleticism when your biggest rival is OSU is also some dumb shit.
Its not that he has recruited the QB position poorly its just that it is year 5 and a guy he recruited still hasn't been the starter to start the season.
I am personally ready for Brown to get canned. I dont think he is a great recruiter. Yes he can identify under the radar ends but he strategy has been shit. Thank god Dax Hill changed his mind because he bailed Brown out of the disaster that was his safety recruiting too.
December 2nd, 2019 at 3:39 PM ^
I expected him by this point to easily have created stabilization in the offensive-line from a recruiting and development standpoint, and that has not happened.
December 2nd, 2019 at 4:10 PM ^
Whaaaaaa??? OL is in about the best place it's been since 2007.
December 2nd, 2019 at 5:27 PM ^
Okay, I am wrong about development at this point with Warriner, but I am still disappointed in the recruiting at offensive line. It was "pretty good" this season because of where we are with upper-classmen on it, but next year it will once again struggle.
December 2nd, 2019 at 5:45 PM ^
Recruiting overall has been a disappointment, but not all of that is on Harbaugh. Retention is also a major concern.
December 2nd, 2019 at 4:28 PM ^
Lol what? His first year our quarterbacks couldn't even finish games against OSU cause they would get killed by Joey Bosa. How many sacks did Chase Young have on Saturday? Zero.
Only fair complaint you can have is that the running game has been inconsistent
December 2nd, 2019 at 4:54 PM ^
Yeah as much as anyone doesn't want to hear this but I've seen no less than 4 videos posted by ohio fans showing Chase Young being held and bear hugged on different plays. We can bitch and moan about no PI's called but we got seriously lucky that a lot of holding penalties weren't called.
December 2nd, 2019 at 5:26 PM ^
Oh, so what they did to our entire DL in the 2016 game.
December 2nd, 2019 at 9:26 PM ^
It’s amazing that everything goes back to that 2016 game. The difference that Jim has failed at is OSU saw the holdings and came out with a completely different scheme in the 3rd quarter and simply dominated the game. The best Michigan has is well it just wasn’t fair, other teams cheat and the refs are out to get us. At some point the excuses and the ifs and the higher than all mantra needs to stop and Jim needs to put his teams in position to win the important games.
December 2nd, 2019 at 6:10 PM ^
Well he shouldn't even be eligible so....I don't feel bad
December 2nd, 2019 at 7:42 PM ^
Good point as I think Runyan made some money on Saturday. Should (could?) be a serviceable-to-good guard in the NFL.
December 2nd, 2019 at 4:45 PM ^
Uh what? If Harbaugh n co were to get fired tomorrow. Warriner would be my #1 holdover from the staff. Dude has more than earned the right to stay here. His recruiting has been on point contrary to what OSU fans said and his development of players is by far the best on the team.
December 2nd, 2019 at 3:40 PM ^
So we're 1-4 on these picks.
Recruiting rankings have been nice to Harbaugh, minus year 3. Michigan has gotten some top talent, but I would venture to guess that the high ranking is due to the volume of prospects than the amount of top talent.
The QB situation has been pretty abysmal, minus Jake Rudock's first year. Harbaugh has yet to prove he's this "QB Guru" that everyone has said he is.
The lack of a dominating OLine has been surprising, but I guess that's what you get when you have Tim Drevno running the show. I feel the OLine really dropped off in the running game after the first half of Illinois.
The talent gap from starters to second & third guys is pretty awful, particularly on the Defensive Line. Hard to judge Nua because he's only been here one year and hasn't been able to get his guy in the lineup, but he's been pretty underwhelming. Again, this may be because the current roster is what is it.
Overall, I'm pretty unimpressed. I can't say I'm excited/hopefully for the future.
December 2nd, 2019 at 4:02 PM ^
There's literally nothing Shaun Nua could do once Michigan lost their most experienced Nose to the transfer portal. I mean, the guy was given Ben Mason to play DT and made the best out of it. Nua is a good coach, and was given a shit sandwich of a hand. Who would've thought Brady Hoke would be a better recruiter defensively than Harbaugh. Somethings gotta change.
December 2nd, 2019 at 4:13 PM ^
It did change. Did you not see the DL class this last recruiting cycle? Now if you want to say 2020 isn't looking too hot outside of McGregor, then yes I'll agree with that. The consistency is a huge problem.
December 3rd, 2019 at 12:03 AM ^
Who would've thought Brady Hoke would be a better recruiter defensively than Harbaugh.
That's Greg Mattison not Hoke.
December 2nd, 2019 at 3:44 PM ^
Well, at least all the trolls will have a single thread in which to congregate....
December 2nd, 2019 at 3:45 PM ^
I can hear all the backpedaling from here lol
December 2nd, 2019 at 3:45 PM ^
Looking back on my expectations, I see I'm batting 0.00.
"1. Beat MSU and OSU first season 2. get to BIG championship game second season 3. Get to playoff third season 4. Win NC fourth season 5. Discover cure for cancer fifth season 6. Reduce my Comcast bill sixth season 7. Eliminate national debt seventh season 8. Discover cure for male pattern baldness eighth season 9. Get my dog to stop scooting his ass inside ninth season 10. Win another NC tenth season"
Fire Harbaugh.
December 2nd, 2019 at 5:26 PM ^
Keep your internet and dump Comcast tv for YouTube TV.
December 2nd, 2019 at 5:41 PM ^
Seems like each season your expectations go up, meaning that you believe reducing your Comcast bill is a more outrageous goal than finding a cure to cancer. Which, sounds about right.