Legitimate question to people that know qb mechanics
Serious question about Cade’s release:
anyone that’s watched games has seen him overthrow the long ball when there’s some coverage. He tends to hit wide open receivers or receivers cutting horizontally across the field but, anything approximating coverage on a vertical or mostly vertical route and he goes long. Is it because that slightly side armed release doesn’t allow for “touch” so his passes stay pretty flat and he goes long hoping the receiver can catch up with it?
November 1st, 2021 at 4:21 PM ^
I honestly think he's coached to be or just naturally risk-averse. Throw it long and it's likely a catch or incompletion. Throw it on the WRs forehead and the catch is easier but there is also a more substantial opportunity for the trailing defender to make a play on the ball.
November 1st, 2021 at 4:24 PM ^
That’s a fair point. We’re also talking about 30-40 yard throws so there inevitably some variance on accuracy. I just was curious if the launch point being to the side instead of above the head made a difference on those longer throws.
November 1st, 2021 at 9:35 PM ^
Totally agree. In fact I think this is precisely what was occurring on the last drive before the half that people are referencing on here as ‘Cade being unable to throw the fade’. He was given strict instructions to take a shot but not cost us 3 pts by turning it over. Maybe he was being overly cautious but I don’t think this can be looked at as Cade not being able to throw a fade.
November 1st, 2021 at 4:23 PM ^
I agree he has not been accurate on vertical throws but at some point the wr's have to make a play and comedown with a contested ball.
November 1st, 2021 at 4:29 PM ^
I’m not trying to say he’s inaccurate, in a lot of instances he’s deadly accurate. My question is more on the throws where, I’m about to get negged to death, we’ve seen JJ drop it in to a receiver, we’ve seen Sainristil lay out to make an insane catch and Andrel lay out to almost make another great catch. Both those throws the receiver had the DB beat but the throw was long. CJ vs NIU however he was wide open and Cade put it in the money.
November 1st, 2021 at 4:36 PM ^
What I've noticed from my (untrained) eye is this:
The first few games, the deep balls McNamara was hitting he put plenty of air under the ball to allow his receiver to adjust and make a play on the ball.
Lately, he seems to have the Joe Milton disease of "driving" the ball down the field, not putting enough air under it, and it ends up being overthrown.
To me, he's trying to pinpoint and make the perfect throw when he just needs to make a good throw and let his receiver go to work. At least those types of throws give you a chance, whereas the alternative is 0% chance of being caught. It happened on the flea flicker and the deep flag route to Sainristil.
Also, it seems to me almost all deep throws have the defender with his back to the ball. Even an under-thrown pass has a much better chance for the receiver that is looking back (at least a lot sooner than the defender) and can adjust or at least draw a PI flag (joke's on me for assuming we'd ever get that flag). Don't be afraid to throw an interception because the probability of that happening is extremely low, and even if it does happen, it becomes essentially a punt anyway.
November 1st, 2021 at 4:48 PM ^
Deep throws are hard. The guy we remember being good at deep throws (like Henne) really weren't all that great. They just had amazing receivers like Braylon Edwards that could win every jump ball. So you just chuck the ball up in his vicinity and boom--40 yard pass play.
Hitting a guy in stride more than 15 yards down the field is hard. Consistently connecting on deep balls is a function of having amazing receivers as much as it is having an amazing QB. Obviously we've seen JJ do it a few times already, and Cade did it earlier a few times too. But I wouldn't read too much into it. If Cade keeps throwing the ball in the 15-yard range the way he was on Saturday he will be successful.
November 1st, 2021 at 8:05 PM ^
Andrel Anthony could have a positive impact in this regard to the long ball accuracy.
November 1st, 2021 at 10:19 PM ^
Exactly.
It's also good to remember for the last few years we had Donovan Peoples-Jones, Tarik Black, and Nico Collins.
NFL-level and sized receivers (we'll see if Black sticks) which are much more forgiving to less accurately thrown balls.
It's criminal that we didn't have QBs/coaches who could get them the ball more during their careers here.
November 2nd, 2021 at 12:05 AM ^
Throwing deep balls is hard, and Cade has not been good at them. I think there's a lot to read into it. Saturday just proved that success with 15-yard completions gets us into the RZ, but that those plays don't easily become touchdowns when the back of the endzone functions as a twelfth defender. Part of this might be that Michigan's redzone passing scheme is not good. It might be, as others have suggested, that Cade is being coached to throw passes to the endzone high and long to avoid interceptions. And part of this has to be on Cade himself. He needs to do a better job of hitting the spots where his receivers can go up and make plays. He doesn't have a Braylon Edwards, but his receivers aren't scrubs.
November 1st, 2021 at 5:00 PM ^
His mechanics are definitely suspect. Devin Gardner said as much.
Mechanical flaws invariably show up with accuracy issues in longer passes. It makes sense the angle of error will increase further away from the source.
Gardner also said during the season mechanics deteriorate because you don't work on them.
Cade has a tendency to be too parallel to the line so doesn't get enough torque with his shoulders and hips. His front foot should point at the target. I think this is why he doesn't full extend his arm and his throws are more side arm.
November 1st, 2021 at 5:45 PM ^
It’s always interesting for someone who shot puts the ball to make mechanics assessments on quarterbacks. Devin was a lot of things but fundamentally sound as a quarterback is not one of them.
November 1st, 2021 at 7:53 PM ^
That should not matter because he's a QB who understands mechanics. It's hard to change mechanics overnight when you have a lifetime of throwing in a certain ways that it's comfortable. It takes a long time for your body to reorient their body memory to get it right.
November 1st, 2021 at 8:40 PM ^
Devin Gardner may not have been the most technically sound quarterback, but that may make him more attuned to problems with mechanics, not less.
November 1st, 2021 at 5:53 PM ^
Cade has a tendency to be too parallel to the line so doesn't get enough torque with his shoulders and hips. His front foot should point at the target. I think this is why he doesn't full extend his arm and his throws are more side arm.
This is exactly what I've been saying for awhile. Someone with average arm strength needs to get the most out of his body in the throwing motion. He uses too much arm. His feet are really wide when he throws too, which I also believe contributes to having less velocity. It would take about a thousand reps to correct so that it's natural. I think the biggest problem is his feet, followed by a tendency to throw late because he wants to be sure the receiver window is wide open. He can't do that inside the red zone because there isn't enough time or space, and the defense knows he isn't a threat to scramble for yards.
November 1st, 2021 at 5:20 PM ^
My non expert opinion is that his arm strength causes him some issues. I think he’s shown he can hit the short throws and crossing routes because it doesn’t require velocity, but more timing. The screen passes out to the flat are often blown up because they take longer to get there. Several passes this year have gotten broken up down the field because the defender has time to make a play due to slow delivery. The pass to Johnson in the fourth on the under thrown ball should have been caught but it allowed for the defender to be right there to make it a contested catch. The interception was made because the pass had little zip on it. His throws into the end zone are often over thrown because he tries to put zip on them and they sail on him. He can’t get an arch on the fade routes because he tries to over compensate and throws it flat. Not making it a quarterback controversy thing but look at how successful JJ has been with much less attempts. He can make throws into windows Cade can’t because of his arm strength. Cade is a really good quarterback but he has limitations IMO because of his lack of mobility, lack of height and an average arm. Like I said, this is just what I see while watching.
November 1st, 2021 at 5:38 PM ^
He doesn't have touch nor knows how to throw with air under the ball. That's been an issue with make of the most recent Qbs sans Rudock
November 1st, 2021 at 5:46 PM ^
Rudock, though, struggled with deep balls early in his one year with us. I vividly remember a couple of deep opportunities in the opener against Utah. I think we have very selective memory at times regarding past performance. Cade also hit some nice deep balls early this year, so more recency bias rearing its head.
November 1st, 2021 at 6:06 PM ^
Deep passes aside, that touch pass he got to Schoonmaker over the outstretched arms of an LB, but inside the zone of the DBs was one of the prettiest passes I've seen in years from a UOfM QB.
November 1st, 2021 at 7:05 PM ^
Indeed, Rudock struggled the first half of the season. He absolutely killed it the second half.
November 1st, 2021 at 5:38 PM ^
As a lay person, it appears he overthrows because that's safer than under-throwing: A miss versus a potential INT. He's very risk-averse, for better and worse.
November 1st, 2021 at 6:41 PM ^
He threw for nearly 400 yards against a top 10 team. Figured that would end these kind of dumb questions but I guess not
November 2nd, 2021 at 12:14 AM ^
Many yards, but only two touchdowns, on a day when the opposing D sold-out to stop the run and there were more passing touchdowns to be had. Cade was really good, but not great, and we lost. Perhaps we shouldn't be so negative and pile on, but it's hard not to feel that this game demonstrated the dreaded cieling we've been fearing. In a big game that becomes a shoot-out, Cade doesn't seem to have enough juice (though he certainly has some).
November 2nd, 2021 at 11:20 AM ^
This was not at all the intention of this post. And this is a bad take. Cade made all the plays he needed to, to win this game. It is not Cade’s fault Walker put msu on his back and just refused to lose.
November 2nd, 2021 at 11:19 AM ^
I’m legitimately not trying to take anything away from Cade. I had a question about whether or not the mechanics of his release are why Michigan receivers have to lay out to catch passes instead of walking it in. He’s still accurately putting the ball where only the receiver can catch it they just have to work harder for it. My apologies if this came across as a knock on Cade. This was a mechanics question from a curious mind not any kind of statement on how Saturday’s game went.
November 1st, 2021 at 7:25 PM ^
Coaches are loathe to change a talented QBs throwing motion, especially during the season, and mechanics do deteriorate.
Yes, a side arm release will tend to hurt accuracy. Yes, he's being extra cautious trying to avoid interceptions in when and where he's throwing it. He needs the right of amount of "air under the ball" and "throwing receivers open" (away from defenders), especially on the deeper balls. His back foot looks good to me, but his front leg (foot) is often the problem. He's got to get the knee/foot downfield so that he finishes "framing" the receiver, rather than throwing across his body, which hurts accuracy and distance.
November 1st, 2021 at 7:25 PM ^
Coaches are loathe to change a talented QBs throwing motion, especially during the season, and mechanics do deteriorate.
Yes, a side arm release will tend to hurt accuracy. Yes, he's being extra cautious trying to avoid interceptions in when and where he's throwing it. He needs the right of amount of "air under the ball" and "throwing receivers open" (away from defenders), especially on the deeper balls. His back foot looks good to me, but his front leg (foot) is often the problem. He's got to get the knee/foot downfield so that he finishes "framing" the receiver, rather than throwing across his body, which hurts accuracy and distance.
November 1st, 2021 at 8:26 PM ^
If they throw it long there’sa better chance your receiver catches it out no one does. Throw it short and those odds go down. It’s not mechanics.
November 1st, 2021 at 8:51 PM ^
You heard it here first: Saturday was his “2nd half of the season Rudock” kickstart and he’s going to elevate the offense from here on. Boom.
November 1st, 2021 at 9:02 PM ^
I agree he's a little side-army on the crossing routes (also gets one or two batted each game) but the deep balls just look like touch issues, not arm angle issues.
I'm going to look a little closer this week.
November 2nd, 2021 at 5:23 PM ^
I have a question regarding the QBs and the red zone/scoring zone offenses and it doesn’t warrant its own thread so I’ll just put it here.
Does Cade throw the ball that JJ threw for the 2nd Anthony TD? I’m not asking if he can make that throw, I’m asking if he does make that throw? Does he pull the trigger or is part of his careful with the ball mentality part of the reason we have so few pass TD in the scoring zone this season?