Late Late Night Open Thread

Submitted by M-Wolverine on
Against my better judgement, because we seem to have a ton of new posters (lockdown time?) that think Michigan should go old SMU/Miami style win at all costs, and apparently didn't really believe anything Bo or Lloyd preached (other than when it makes a good soundbyte or sig line or post reply), but there are enough reliable posters still up that it will save them some scrolling.

chris1709

January 8th, 2011 at 2:34 AM ^

Best Case Scenario...............Miles gets the program back to the top and then in 5-10 years Harbaugh takes the job and wins multiple national championships

Edward Khil

January 8th, 2011 at 2:35 AM ^

Brian is still focused,  (See front-page Les Miles update to his original Les Miles entry from a bit earlier).  But I wonder if he's losing enthusiasm for this blog.  It's just a bit weird to be unable to post or even posbang.  He's expressed exasperation at our comments in the past.  And now, as I reach half-past-asleep, I'm having hallucinations that I'm under a dreamlike martial law.

I doubt he'd ever officially say "Fuck this!"  But we might be reading more of Tim (nothing wrong with that).  And Brian might find another outlet to supplement what he's done so well at mgoblog.

I mean, the guy hated the idea of Brady Hoke.  And now he's saying he'd rather have Hoke over Smiles.  Odds are climbing that it'll be one of them, no matter what Les told his players.

This may not end well.

expatriate

January 8th, 2011 at 2:41 AM ^

Brian may not like who the new coach is, but once the new staff is installed he can start thinking about the players and the X's and O's part of it.  If they start winning, he can talk about that.  He doesn't ever have to necessarily like the people in charge, but that may give him plenty to write about.

After all, there were tons of people in the media who have made a damn fine living lately who seemed to dislike Michigan's head coach.  Brian I imagine will be fair about it, and at least he's honest.

So he'll be pissed for a while.  Hell, we all will be.  But we are all Michigan fans and we will dive into the team (the team, the team).

uminks

January 8th, 2011 at 4:02 AM ^

Brian is just down that JH is not coming to AA!  It's like a major dong punch!  If DB knew this he should have kept RR!  Hello Brady Hoke and several more years of rebuilding!

bsand2053

January 8th, 2011 at 2:36 AM ^

I have heard rumors that I'm interested in the job because I'm an alum and someone who has occasional success playing NCAA 10.  People just aren't sure that I understand the OSU rivalry because I have never seen Michigan beat them.

gobluednicks

January 8th, 2011 at 2:41 AM ^

and RR went to LSU, they'd be waaaay better than we are.  when you look at the amount of talent LSU has, a monkey could/has lead them to 11-2.  Coaches, in general, are overrated.  you're only as good as the talent on your team.  RR is, in my opinion, a far better coach than LM.  This would be a complete disaster of a hiring.  I dont think DB is dumb enough to hire a man who turned us down in the past.  Hoke might not be the best option, but at least he wants to be here. 

mds315

January 8th, 2011 at 2:45 AM ^

 

 "I dont think DB is dumb enough to hire a man who turned us down in the past.  Hoke might not be the best option, but at least he wants to be here."

He didn't... He actually called us and we never returned his phone calls.

jmblue

January 8th, 2011 at 3:01 AM ^

when you look at the amount of talent LSU has, a monkey could/has lead them to 11-2.  Coaches, in general, are overrated.  you're only as good as the talent on your team.

Right.  It wasn't Miles, it was the general manager who assembled that roster.  Good thing LSU had all those #1 draft picks. 

Brodie

January 8th, 2011 at 3:55 AM ^

I've always really respected you, JMBlue. It's sad to see you've talked yourself into this "GOTTA GET THE BEST NAME OUT THERE, GOTTA WIN TEN GAMES AGAIN ZOMG" idea. Miles is able to recruit based on LSU's cachet and location. He gets first pick of every kid in Louisiana and then anyone who wants to play for a top 10 SEC school. And that cachet was built not by him, but by Saban. Who, incidentally, recruited every single starter on his fluke 2 loss natty championships team.

SFBlue

January 8th, 2011 at 5:03 AM ^

So on the one hand, Miles' recruiting can be written off as being all Louisiana front-running, and not worthy of respect (even though two years of his recruits were on the 2007 team).  But on the other hand, Saban's recruiting was magic, and enabled Miles'  MNCsuccess *over three years* after Saban left.  No matter how you cut it, Saban and Miles won the same number of titles at LSU. On top of that, Miles (62-17) has a MUCH better record than Saban (48-16) at LSU. 

I know your larger point is to besmirch Miles' character, but don't go distorting his coaching record. 

All Aboard

January 8th, 2011 at 3:07 AM ^

you're confirming that LM is an excellent recruiter? I fail to see your point. RR is a good coach, there's no denying that. But lack of attention to defensive and special teams problems ultimately led to his firing. It just didn't work in the B1G.

Brodie

January 8th, 2011 at 2:42 AM ^

Anyone who supports Les Miles for this job is an egomaniac who has no care or concern for the university, it's integrity, or the player's well being as long as they can brag to their co-workers on Monday morning. I think it's tragic that our fanbase is so willing to turn their back on any sense of morality and values just because they think it might win us more games. I will support anyone in this job except for Les Miles.

Brodie

January 8th, 2011 at 6:44 AM ^

Yeah, what's morally wrong about promising an 18 year old a scholarship when you know perfectly well that there isn't one available for him? Or how about forcing a junior out of school so you can make room for your new 5 star? Nope, all totally kosher.

Seriously, I hope you guys are happy with yourselves. Hopefully now that we're as scummy and scum gets, we can drop the fabled Michigan arrogance.

M-Wolverine

January 8th, 2011 at 2:49 AM ^

Will end the thread for "me" tonight. Because that's what I've been saying. So I'll go to bed and hope for one more "coach rumored to take the Michigan job is off the table" story to awake to, and then get this stuff finalized so I can have a life again.

sinner1998

January 8th, 2011 at 2:55 AM ^

Then he can be depended upon to keep Les on a short leash and cure him of his SEC ways. We can't have it both ways. The guy - Miles, in this case - actually played under Bo.  But now he's not a Michigan man? We're going to disown him?  Who do we get, the Pope?  I mean, I know he wears a helmet, but he's not very experienced.

Admittedly, that Les has pulled some shady sh*t, but grab him as a coach and supervise him well. 

And, as I've said a bunch of times since finally joining the board tonight, if he can't drag himself up to meet the high standards that PRODUCED HIM, then in two or three years, we can bring in Brady Hoke, who some, but not all of us, think will have proven himself worthy of the job (in terms of ability to win games, at least) by that time.  As of right now, in my opinion, as a sub-500 coach, he simply has not.

UMAmaizinBlue

January 8th, 2011 at 3:22 AM ^

Admittedly, that Les has pulled some shady sh*t, but grab him as a coach and supervise him well. 

 

Okay, I get it: Les Miles = Shady/Slimey/Sketchy/Immoral...blahblahblah. Whatever he has done at LSU in the SEC does not mean it will be carried over into the B10. Remember, traits and trends do not always carry over into other coaching gigs (see: RR success in Big East =/= RR success in B10).

 

If Les Miles is hired, I will support him, but I will also look to the athletic department to make sure the program is run with integrity like it always has. Do you really think DB wants Les Miles running rampant with retracted scholarships and grayshirts, etc. when the media nearly shat itself ten times over because of 20 minutes extra practice? HELL NO! That shit simply won'y fly, IMO. 

 

Whatever, I could be wrong.And sure,maybe this is just me trying to rationalize, but we've been through about 3 or 4 big name coaches that could have been here in the last 48 hours but went to greener pastures/decided it wasn't worth it to leave, and if it's down to Les Miles and Hoke, then Hello: Les Miles!

Willie Heston

January 8th, 2011 at 4:18 AM ^

I think Les could be successful with the talent we currently have and could prove to be a good "5 year plan" type of coach.  After that, maybe Hoke could be next--he certainly hasnt won big games yet like Les has.  Let Hoke keep working his way up like Les did--if he is really that good then time will tell and we'll welcome him with open arms.

( I also think Les would know how to utilize Denard--he did recruit Russell Shepard after all)

Bring Les aboard and lets start kicking some Buckeye a$$. Yo.

RagingBean

January 8th, 2011 at 12:35 PM ^

Russ Shepard, who RR thought was among the most talented and potential-filled QB propspects he had ever seen, is now a WR at LSU. That's not exactly a great utilization of a talent that was widely regarded as much better than Denard.

Also, Hoke is FIVE YEARS younger than Miles. Loeffler makes about a billion times more sense than Hoke as a HC in waiting, especially since Loeffler isn;t already, you know, a head coach somewhere else.

Ernis

January 8th, 2011 at 8:00 AM ^

On-field success is not the same as integrity. Success on the field is the product of many things and is often unpredictable. Integrity is the product of one thing -- the quality of the individual in question -- and is highly predictable. Miles would bring his lack of character to this program and leave a darker, more sinister mark than RR's on-field travesties.

UMAmaizinBlue

January 8th, 2011 at 9:48 AM ^

That's a bit of a stretch, don't you think? Sinister? I'm not going to sit here and pretend the guy isn't without flaws and some character issues, but the man hasn't coached one down at UM and you already have him placing a black mark on the program. 

jmblue

January 8th, 2011 at 3:04 AM ^

Anyone who supports Les Miles for this job is an egomaniac who has no care or concern for the university, it's integrity, or the player's well being

Are you prepared to say that about Mary Sue Coleman and David Brandon?  Or do you think they'll hold their noses at the press conference if he's hired?

Brodie

January 8th, 2011 at 3:51 AM ^

I'd be prepared to say that David Brandon is clearly a coporate asshat whose only concern is how much cash we can make on Arby's cups and FOX robot dolls and that he would gladly take 10 wins the wrong way over 8 wins honestly. MSC has no say so I'm just going to ignore that.

Brodie

January 8th, 2011 at 6:50 AM ^

Mary Sue Coleman has a lot more important shit on her plate than who coaches the football team. She's running a billion dollar institution (plus two satellite institutions)... plus, it's pretty well known she has no interest in or knowledge of football. If Dave Brandon tells her he's found someone, she'll sign off. Just like she would with any other prospective employee in any other department of the university. This world where MSC is pushing for Ferentz or holding a grudge against Harbaugh is pure fantasy... the product of the imaginations of people who have no idea what a university president actually does.

bighouseinmate

January 8th, 2011 at 2:51 AM ^

but I could deal with Miles if he is named coach.

I think too much is made of Hoke's career record on the surface and not very many are putting that record in context with where the two programs he's coached were at prior to him. Some of these posters really need to do their homework on the candidates before they let loose with their words of wisdom.

As for the "hired guns" that people continue to bring up, we are Michigan, not The U or any other sleazy program that engages in a win-at-all-costs mentality. If that is what you want, then go root for Alabama or USC, or get away from the college game altogether and stick with the NFL.

 

P.S. And get off my lawn!!!

Badkitty

January 8th, 2011 at 3:10 AM ^

"Hired Guns?"  Is that what all coaches are?  Let see some BCS-eligible football program pay their coaches living expenses and a small salary instead of the millions of dollars they get and see how many don't start calling their agents to find other jobs.

That "mentality" that you speak of is everywhere.  It's all about winning and losing.  This is about the corporatization of college sports.  Otherwise, Lloyd Carr may still be coach.  Or Rich Rod for that matter and we wouldn't have hundreds or thousand of blog entries about who is going the next head coach. 

sinner1998

January 8th, 2011 at 3:44 AM ^

You can't say Rich Rod deserved to be fired because of his win-loss record and then in the same breath say that winning doesn't matter.  Brandon said it himself in his press conference.  This was not about Rich Rod not being a good person, it was about him not winning games, and more than that, not winning enough "red-letter" games.  Miles has a better record of winning games than Hoke, certainly, and the "SEC behavior" can be managed.

bighouseinmate

January 8th, 2011 at 5:11 AM ^

......what I mean by the term "hired guns"? Probably not. Someone wanting a coach like, say, Saban for instance, is wanting a "hired gun" to get the program winning again. Saban wouldn't care about UM itself, or the traditions, or anything unique to Michigan. He'd care about winning, and as he has shown at Alabama, winning at any cost. Mullen is another that people bring up that I would consider a "hired gun". Urban Meyer is definitely another.

Neither Harbaugh, nor Miles would be considered a "hired gun" because they have both publicly stated their desires, at one time or another, to become UM's HC and that it was their dream job. The same with Hoke.

It all comes down to whether or not the coach wants to be the HC at UM, because it is UM and they wish to be a part of the tradition and history and genuinely love the school, or whether they only come in because the money is good and they are looking for another notch in their belt.

Some of the fans posting here recently bring up nearly everyone under the sun and claim a wishlist of those people. Not me. Nor for any of the fans who truly understand the history of the program and the school.

gobluesasquatch

January 8th, 2011 at 2:57 AM ^

The past three years have been disappointing. Extremely disappointing. We became just like every other program in the nation. At some point, we were going to stink. But we didn't think it would be long, or that it would play out like this. But for most programs it has. They started with a bad hire, paniced, and made another bad hire. Look at Oklahoma post Switzer. Gibbs was meh, then Schnellenberger (disaster) and and can't even remember the name of the guy between Schnelly and Stoops.

Think about USC post Robinson, Act 1. Ted Tollner (bad), Larry Smith (great guy, okay coach - not good enough for USC). Then Robinson part 2 (like most sequels disappointing), then Hackett (yuck), then Carrol by dumb luck. 

Consider Texas and the up and downs from post Darryl Royal to Mack Brown. Fred Akers had good seasons, but then McWilliams and Mackovic essentially stunk up the joint. That was nearly 18 years of mediocre texas football. 

Nebraska was a machine from Devaney to Osborne. Solich was never the same, but the game changed drastically too. But then they made the switch that maybe should have warned us about a drastic change - Callahan. Hoke's Ball St team nearly beat them at home. Even under Pelini, it still isn't the same. Better, but not Osborne dominance. 

Alabama - wow - that has been an up and down sh1t show after Bear. The only one that was really solid was Stallings, and even then wanted to string him up at times, and he won a National title there. It wasn't until Saban that they got it right. That's a long time even if you delete the Stalling years. 

Washington post Don James has been a mess (save one good season under Neuhisal). 

I wanted Jim Harbaugh to come back to Michigan. He seemed to be a great fit. Smart, former Michigan hero. Solid NFL career. Charismatic. Cared about his athletes, worked with smart, student-athletes (get ready to deal with all those SEC football players in the NFL - good luck with that), and even deflected to them in post game interviews. But he had other aspirations, and hey, when your nobody brother is having success in the NFL, I can't see why he wouldn't try it. 

We've believed this is the best job in the nation, much like Notre Dame fans. It was once. But we killed it with our bickering and unwillingness to accept an outsider. Rich Rod was brought in to implement the same type of up-tempo, fast paced, spread and shred offenses similar to the ones that kicked our ass on the way to and 0-2 start in 2007. You can't stop a running quarterback - go out and get one. We were going to drop 50 on teams like nothing and roll up points and have exciting football devoid of artillery shell quarterbacks and middle screens on 3rd and 15. 

But at every turn we miss-used the term Michigan Man. The only man that probably cringes more than RR when that term is used is Frieder. Rich Rod tried the best he could and we just ripped him up. I don't care about how his wife looked, the southern twang, the same phrases at the press conferences. HIS QUARTERBACKS YEAR ONE WERE NICK SHERIDAN, STEVEN THREAT AND THE NOTORIOUS C.O.N.E. You try to win with that. 

Miles was never coming. In the summer of 2007 I was in New Orleans and met a number of LSU alumni and boosters. Nice guys, and I have pictures of them with Les Miles at a crawfish boil (y'all need to do that at least once: crawfish, beer, socializing, beer, cocktails, beer, crawfish, friends, beer ... you get the idea). I realized that there was NO way he'd ever leave. Sure, they were hard, but in reality, passionate fan base, unpretentious, fertile recruiting ground - why leave? Bo was dead at this point. Maybe if Bo was still alive he'd feel obligated to kiss the ring and come back (if Bo wanted him back - there was that trip Bo made to Baton Rouge shortly after the Jai Eugene incident - if that rumor's true). He was gone.

Hoke want's the Michigan job. So does Mike Hart. I'm glad he's passionate about the job. But is Hoke ready. Is he better than Rich Rod? is he really that f'ing stupid to not use the most dangerous weapon in college football? If he doesn't adapt to use DRob, he's dumb and shouldn't be hired. Period. End of discussion.

So Harbaugh signed the contract. Donovan left the Magic and returned days later to Florida. Dakich returned to BG after having been at WVU a few days. Cremens turned down his alma mater to stay at GT after initially leaving. Okay, it's all basketball and Jim is an arrogent prick and considers himself first (and I'm not saying it as a bad thing). He's gone. Dreams die, just like your first marriage. Damn, this is depressing. 

What if Ball St. hired Bielema instead of Hoke? What if Wannstache doesn't have his Pitt players hurt Pat White's thumb? What if Gary Pinkel finally one a big game? Crable why did you have to have a late hit on Troy Smith?!? Damn you! Well, at least no one is calling for Ferentz or Schiano this time around. 

So why not plead with Chip Kelly to come. Yeah, screw Phil Knight. It's freakin' Oregon. No one respects that school. Michigan - college football blue blood. Screw that - Michigan - Denard Robinson. That would be amazing. Pipe dream, I know. Where is our Tressel at? 

Ladies and Gentlemen, I'm a man, I'm forty - I introduce Mike Gundy?

On second thought, I'm all in for Brady Hoke. <sigh>

SFBlue

January 8th, 2011 at 3:07 AM ^

Pretty sure it was Michigan who spurned Miles the first time around, not vice versa.  See, e.g., http://blog.mlive.com/wolverines_stories/2007/12/miles_old_um_teammates_are_liv.html

 

LC was leaving soon regardless of the result of the 2006 game.  Were things otherwise, LC would still be coaching, and we'd still be living the Pax Schembechlera.