How Michigan's recruiting is evolving under Harbaugh
M-Live piece about Michigan's recruiting over the past 10 years. The article includes an interactive map showing where Michigan (and MSU for some reason) has pulled recruits from. We certainly have a national reach.
Also, Trigger Warning in regards to RR recruiting.
http://www.mlive.com/sports/2016/06/how_michigans_recruiting_is_ev.html#incart_river_home
Michigan's always had a national reach, but Harbaugh is taking that to the extreme.
That's the biggest difference between him and his direct predecessors, as MLive has reviewed the past 10 Michigan recruiting classes. That includes the last of Lloyd Carr and also the tenures of Rich Rodriguez and Brady Hoke.
"We're out there looking for nuggets of gold, to bring the best and brightest to the University of Michigan," Harbaugh said on national signing day in February. "That will remain our objective."
He literally is a fucking jackhammer, choo choo......
The bulk of their non-regional recruits were either lowly recruited players, transplants from the Midwest, or the relative of an alum. They weren't going down to Dr. Philips or Miami Northwestern to get these kids. I don't think you'll find them beating out many top Power 5 schools for the kids down south or out west.
I would guess that most, if not all of the kids the signed out of this region were not being seriously recruited by us.
Quickly scrolled over the names west of the IL/WI and east of the western side of PA, and south of TN and not a lot names that I'd recognize as impact guys: Calhoun (NJ), Chambers (NJ, 2016 so only "potential" here) , Mumphrey (GA), Foles (TX).
MSU's bread and butter is Great Lakes region, with some filler into FL and east coast.
in guys in North Carolina. There is a guy Tom Shanahan who wrote a book on MSU (Raye of Light) and is a local sports journalist. He covers games here locally, and he's frequently on the sidelines, while keeping tabs on plays and player stats. One of the receivers at Panther Creek has interest from MSU - and I think Tom was the scout.
'"Rodriguez signed more wide receivers (nine) and running backs (eight) than any position besides linebacker (10). Hoke signed more linebackers (12) and cornerbacks (10) than another other position"
No fucking wonder we haven't had any OL and DL depth in what seems like forever.
guys that are 5'-7" to 5'-10" wide receivers is a reach... they were slot backs or "super" backs in his offence... gallon was the only one of those guys in the group that panned out at all...
Jeremy Gallon was decent as well. Had a few catches. Scored a few touchdowns.
That would be a situation where I read the 1st half of a statement and my head boils enough to where I send out a quick fire. Fail. +1 for you for pointing out my indiscretions in life.
that i didn't clarify that i was only talking about the short WR's that RR brought here... last time i checked roudtree was a 6 footish WR and not one of the 5'-7" to 5'-10" WR/SB's that i was talking about...
i don't think fitz toussaint was a hit. couldn't wait until he graduated and got out of here!
Considering that Fitz is the only RB to rush for 1000 yds since Hart graduated—and considering that he basically broke his leg in half, effectively sabotaging the remainder of his Michigan career—you're a clown.
you basing your hit and miss criteria on??? if its just stats then odoms and dileo weren't really "hits" as you say... they were both serviceable WR's in their time at Michigan but they did not put up huge numbers like gallon and roundtree... they had a combined 11 touch down catches...
i wouldn't call Odoms, Smith, Dileo hits, they were MAC level players that got playing time of a team embarrassingly low on talent. None of them would make the two depth on a Big Ten contending UM team. Toussaint is up for debate, my lasting memory of him is him dropping like a tough of bricks at the first bit of contact at the line of scrimmage.
Roundtree, Gallon and Robinson, i agree with.
So I'm guessing they are designating by which OL position and DL position they actually played (akin to Hoke recruited __ DBs rather than designating CBs and Safeties).
What's killed OL/DL depth for Michigan was that they had a wave of recruits, planned on addressing other needs and getting back to OL/DL recruiting in '15, but by the time '15 came around, the success wasn't there, and that resulted in a transition class with a lot of misses. Also, some late misses on the DL didn't help (and a certain flip on the OL at the end of last year).
losing 4 out of the 6 guys in the epic 2013 class. That is what will haunt us somewhat in the next few seasons.
Interesting indeed. Also interesting that RR signed up guys that were more in his wheelhouse (Offensive mind) and Hoke signed up more guys that were in his (defense). Is that just random or did they fall victim to a recruiting bias of sorts, trying to play to their relative strengths?
When Rich Rod came in, the defense was still good, and still had some depth, but the offense certainly lacked depth, even more so for Rich Rod's offense (which was nominally 3 or 4 WRs all the time). He needed an influx of offensive players before balancing it out.
Hoke was the opposite. He had offensive players. He needed some TEs, a FB, and eventually would need to address the huge gap at OL, but most of the depth issues on defense were because Rich Rod hadn't swung back to balanced recruiting yet and didn't develop the defensive talent to where it needed to be.
Hoke's system at least was much more like Harbaugh's, so personnel wise, there wasn't a major correction needed. The defensive talent was likely above the offensive talent, but a lot of the offensive talent was also younger (because Hoke's first couple years addressed the defensive needs). So really, by the fact of Rich Rod and Hoke building on opposite sides and correcting for depth weaknesses, it kind of left Harbaugh with a decently balanced roster outside of the void that was the Hoke-Harbaugh transition class, which won't lead to roster imbalance, but will lead to OL/DL depth concerns pretty soon.
Wow! OL Depth was horrible for years.
"Michigan's always had a national reach, but Harbaugh is taking that to the extreme."
I cant speak for anyone else but the Australian satellite camp answered that question for me.
And if there is truly intelligent life in outer space, defined by having an affinity/ability for football, Harbaugh will have the first satellite camp there also!
Carr aside (he only had a single year in this), Rich Rod developed relationships in Florida from his time at WVU, Tulane, and Clemson, which all recruited Florida fairly regularly. Particularly WVU, who was in the Big East for much of Rich Rod's tenure. That allowed him to target specific kinds of players from down there. Other than that, he mostly stuck with the traditional recruiting foot print of Michigan and Ohio.
Hoke came in, and part of his objective was reestablishing Ohio and Michigan as the footprint for Michigan football. Of course, he himself had a lot of good connections in the area, and among local coaches, had great relationships. Hoke also recruited heavily based on relationships. Yes, he sold the Michigan brand as well, but it was almost universally recognized that the way he recruited was almost familial. This tends to reduce the footprint a bit, because it's more about establishing and building relationships. So it was largely Michigan, Ohio, Maryland-DC-Virginia, and starting in NJ.
Then there is Harbaugh. Harbaugh brought in a national staff. He had ties to California. He created ties to Florida and NJ. And he himself was a big time name, recently coming off a lot of success in the NFL. His recruiting strategy was allowed to be drastically different. I don't care how many satellite camps and other things Rich Rod or Hoke did, they weren't going to establish a recruiting base similar to Harbaugh's.
I think all strategies have their positives and negatives. Rich Rod established a footprint in an area of lots of talent and established an ability to get a lot out of guys that weren't covetted elsewhere (more when he was at WVU, but still). Hoke based his on building a family, and because of that got guys to commit and stay committed throughout their careers to Michigan; and despite the final year losing a bunch of talent by the time Hoke was fired, it should be noted it also got a lot of talent to initially commit, indicating that the recruiting strategy had more ability to work despite success or lack there of. Harbaugh's recruiting strategy is great, as long as he keeps on winning. I have little doubt he will. But because it isn't as personal as Hoke's strategy, and because his California ties are from longer ago, I think there is much more risk/reward involved. That's similar to Meyer in many ways; though Meyer has the added advantage of being the only major player in a state that produces top flight talent.
As long as Michigan brings in guys and coaches them up while they are here and they can keep winning, I don't really care where they come from. Coming more locally is great, it's always fun to see guys from Michigan and Ohio do well and have that engrained emotion about rivalries and things like that, but winning is what matters in the end.
But because it isn't as personal as Hoke's strategy ... I think there is much more risk/reward involved.
Maybe ... but there's a part of me that thinks that the recruiting landscape of 2016 is a lot different than 2010.
as long as he keeps on winning
I think that's more the applicable thing here. In today's culture it's more and more about results today, not later. It's certainly true in business; and I argue it's becoming more and more true in major college football.
But despite struggling in his second to last year, look at the talent that still committed to Hoke in his final year: George Campbell (5 star), Damien Harris (5 star), Michael Weber (4 star), Darian Roseboro (4 star), Shaun Crawford (4 star), Garrett Taylor (4 star), Darrin Kirkland (4 star).
The guy could recruit because he knew how to build relationships. When it became clear that Hoke was likely gone (in Harris's case it was oddly enough Borges), they left the class. Guy had a different strategy and it worked for him on the recruiting front, and that was only a couple years ago.
The man could recruit. His 2013 class is still tops over the last decade, even above Harbaugh's most recent class.
Oh, agree that Hoke was successful at relationship-recruiting. No question.
I suspect Harbaugh will have his own success in building relationships, but it will be of a different nature than Hoke's. Less familial, more professional.
I guess what I'm saying is that the success of the relationship model Hoke employed is diminishing. Such an approach now, and into the future, will be increasingly met with, "Yeah, okay ... but what about wins and getting me to the NFL?" That's the nature of today's top-level college football. Top recruits go to Alabama because Alabama wins, and the NFL takes note. No amount of relationship building can overcome a losing record.
Campbell decommitted in late 2013, Crawford in spring 2014. That's long before Hoke was in his death spiral. The team's play probably had something to do with them leaving, but I don't think anyone was seriously projecting that Hoke wouldn't make it through 2014 at that point.
Not sure why decommits should be considered when evaluating Hoke's or anyone's recruiting prowess. Beilein sure isn't getting credit for having Battle on the hook at one time. Given that guys decommit all the time nowadays, there's no telling what would've happened with those players even if Hoke had stuck around.
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RichRod did well in Florida, not well in Ohio.
more personal than climbing trees and sleeping over at a recruits house? No offense meant, I like most of your input on the board. I agree there is a difference betwen the way Hoke and Harbaugh do things but if climbing trees for little girls and sleeping over at recruits houses isn't about building relationships then I don't know what is. I think Harbaugh builds pretty colid relationships with recruits and their families as well.
It looks like they drive down I75 from Michigan to Florida and recruit kids from the nearest school.
in Middle Tennessee either. Ba Dum Tssh!!!!
I did not realize we were doing so well in Southern CA.
You guys sure do know how to make this old man feel old as hell.
Now get off my lawn!
MSU also had benefitted from recruits referred from Ohio State and I'm guessing that this pipeline has ended (or been shifted to Pitt and Houston).
But, but, what about Rutgers? Ohio State promised them they were Besties now.
Wait, it was all just a lie to get back at Harbaugh?
Have to admit I am surprised at how much reach Sparty has.