November 12th, 2017 at 12:14 PM ^
November 12th, 2017 at 12:59 PM ^
I cannot wait for his press conferences. I miss his eloquence.
November 12th, 2017 at 4:04 PM ^
November 12th, 2017 at 4:12 PM ^
"He has a boo-boo."
November 12th, 2017 at 8:39 PM ^
November 12th, 2017 at 4:41 PM ^
November 12th, 2017 at 12:15 PM ^
And this deserves a seperate thread? Isn't this covered in the Butch Jones fired post?
November 12th, 2017 at 12:17 PM ^
November 12th, 2017 at 2:16 PM ^
November 12th, 2017 at 12:20 PM ^
November 12th, 2017 at 2:40 PM ^
November 12th, 2017 at 12:16 PM ^
November 12th, 2017 at 12:20 PM ^
November 12th, 2017 at 12:52 PM ^
November 12th, 2017 at 12:59 PM ^
November 12th, 2017 at 12:31 PM ^
November 12th, 2017 at 12:52 PM ^
He is a good guy - and he recruited a lot of Harbaugh's players these last three years. He wasn't cut out for the job but I don't see a need to pile on.
November 12th, 2017 at 1:03 PM ^
I agree. We also should remember, he inhereited RR's grease fire. Furthermore, from a fair and objective prognostive stand point, Hoke will have beaten OSU more / just as much as Harbaugh in the same amount of years.
November 12th, 2017 at 1:23 PM ^
Hoke inherited the team that RR rebuilt into a winner. If you want to blame someone look to Lloyd Carr who left a smoking crater for Rodriguez. Hart, Henne, Long, Manningham, Arrington and Crable all left. The OL was bad under LC and had only 2 quality starters returning, one of whom subsequently left because he thought Barwis was too demanding. The defense had some great talent back but they were all 3rd or 4th year players. Rodriguez had to focus on rebuilding the offense to the detriment of the D. RR was fired before he had a chance to do so, but it should be noted that he brought in 3 freshmen - Jake Ryan, Blake Countess and Desmond Morgan - who significantly improved the 2011 roster. As Hoke replaced RR's players the team got worse. Hoke's failure to develop players continues to hold back Harbaugh and the team.
November 12th, 2017 at 1:28 PM ^
I agree with much of your post Cali. Carr was / is a Legend. He brought us a National Championship. But the stain on his tenure was the last 3-4 years. I don't think I have ever seen a coach do less with more. Just go back and look at the CRAZY talent he had on O and D during those years. He easily should habe won another NC.
November 12th, 2017 at 1:32 PM ^
"I don't think I have ever seen a coach do less with more."
November 12th, 2017 at 1:50 PM ^
In Carr's last four years we posted the following records:
2004:- 9-3 / 7-1 Big Ten (1st place)
2005: 7-5 / 5-3 Big Ten (3rd)
2006 : 11-2 / 7-1 Big Ten (2nd)
2007: 9-4 / 6-2 (Big Ten (2nd)
There were a few bad individual games in there, but overall that's not that bad of a record. The main problem is that he lost to Tressel all four years. It was time for him to step down when he did.
I also don't think his last recruiting classes would have been as bad if he'd stayed around, or a coach with a similar philosophy had succeeded him. The transition from him to RR was massive and it ended up with a lot of guys either no longer being well-suited for the new system or just not buying in.
As for RR building a winner, that could be said of the offensive side of the ball but I wouldn't say that about the defensive side, to put it charitably.
November 12th, 2017 at 2:06 PM ^
...was that after Bo's death when he realized he just didn't have the fire in him any more, the AD and President not only talked him into staying for another year but then apparently failed to plan for what would happen after that year was up.
Having him stay maybe wasn't wrong, since there was no succession plan in place. Failing to use your year's warning to then put a plan in place was inexcusable.
November 12th, 2017 at 3:29 PM ^
was also he wasn't asked to really be part of the search. So he went out and kinda torpedoed the team. Said to hire Rich, telling players that Rich was hired and he runs a different system, telling them he would sign transfer papers to anywhere, not supporting Rich.
Carr was a great coach while he was here, and has been great later on, but that period of time where he was walking away was brutal. Really set Michigan up for failure for a long time.
November 12th, 2017 at 4:30 PM ^
...that that story makes no sense? At the very least, it should have died when it became common knowledge that Rodriguez had been Carr's idea in the first place. He encourages RR to put his name in and encourages Martin to hire him, then his very next act is to destroy the program by encouraging players to leave, and he does this in such a spectacularly unsuccessful fashion that not a single player takes him up on it?
That was Lloyd the pychologist. There are players in the room--dropback QBs, big RBs, big anything on the offensive side of the ball for that matter--rightfully wondering about their future under a spread guru. Carr voices their fears, then talks them off the ledge: take your time, no hurry, think it over, don't make a quick decision you're going to regret.
No doubt there were some players, especially on the defense, that weren't thinking about their futures and didn't understand what Carr was doing. Maybe that was the source of the version that made it into Bacon's book.
Three and Out was an interesting book. But it was written by an embedded reporter and so it's probably more revealing of the state of mind of RR and his immediate circle than of any objective version of events.
November 12th, 2017 at 5:17 PM ^
November 12th, 2017 at 4:11 PM ^
Those records are not good considering the talent Carr had those years. Just go back and look at the talent at QB, RB, TE, WR, DL, LB, DB. It was CRAZY good. If Harbaugh had that same talent, Good Night!!!
November 13th, 2017 at 12:18 AM ^
Leaving aside Carr's own contribution to recruiting that talent: has the talent Harbaugh's had to work with really been inferior? We just had 11 players go in a single draft--when did that last happen? 23 players who played under Harbaugh made NFL rosters--when's the last three-year stretch we put that many into the league?
November 16th, 2017 at 3:52 PM ^
It is different from the standpoint of Carr had SOLID talent at QB, RB & WR. Guys that went to the NFL every year.
November 16th, 2017 at 5:42 PM ^
Two years of Harbaugh drafts so far:
QB: Rudock (6)
WR: Darboh (3), Chesson (4)
Fourteen picks total (not including Countess), two first rounders.
Here's late Carr for comparison (2007-2008 drafts):
QB: Henne (2)
WR: Manningham (3), Breaston (5), Arrington (7)
RB: Hart (6)
Thirteen picks total, two first rounders. That was the best two-year haul in Carr's tenure here, the first time since 1991-1992 we had 13 taken over two years (and the draft was 12 rounds long back then).
To find two years with more players drafted than Harbaugh's had so far you have to go back to 1974-1975. There were 17 rounds then.
If putting players into the league is your measuring stick, Harbaugh's had the best two years in Michigan history. If success in the league factors in, it's too early to say. None of Carr's skill players from that era really lit it up--the best careers were Harris, Woodley, Long, and Hall.
November 12th, 2017 at 1:47 PM ^
November 12th, 2017 at 1:57 PM ^
November 12th, 2017 at 2:12 PM ^
Keep in mind, Bacon worked closely with RR during the writing of that book while Carr was not part of the process at all. I interpret the book as RR's version of events, which probably doesn't coincide with Carr's version (if he were to ever come forward, which is doubtful).
November 12th, 2017 at 2:52 PM ^
Bacon's a professional. He contacted Carr for input and Carr declined. If there was a good version for Carr he could have had one of his associates give it to Bacon.
November 12th, 2017 at 3:32 PM ^
By the time the book was written (2011), Lloyd was retired from the athletic department and really had no motivation to relive the events of those three years. I'm not surprised he didn't want to get involved.
Rich OTOH was unemployed when Bacon was writing the book and had a strong motivation to make sure the book shifted blame away from himself, so as to protect his reputation going forward. It's not surprising he wanted to get a lot of stuff on the record.
November 12th, 2017 at 3:42 PM ^
Defense of your reputation provides a lot of motivation to respond to negative assertions if they're untrue.
November 12th, 2017 at 3:56 PM ^
Carr was never a forthcoming guy with the media. I'm not surprised he didn't participate in the writing of the book and would not make much of it.
Moreover, the book wasn't supposed to be about Carr at all. We should remember, Three and Out wasn't planned to a negative, muckracking book. It was intended to be an inside look at Rich Rodriguez's new Michigan program as it turned things around. But then we collapsed at the end of the 2010 season and RR got fired, forcing Bacon to completely change the book's focus, late in the writing process, into a "What went wrong" narrative.
November 13th, 2017 at 1:58 AM ^
November 12th, 2017 at 4:00 PM ^
November 12th, 2017 at 5:03 PM ^
Your first statement is true, but you are also assuming that every player RR inherited reached his potential after the coaching transfer, which is impossible to know. In almost any coaching transition there are some guys who don't buy in to the new staff.
Your second statement is not a fact at all. Carr had no authority to grant players their release once RR was hired.
Your third statement is true but - take it FWIW - I heard an ex-player speak about this a few years back and he said that Carr challenged players to stay at Michigan after the coaching change. This is one reason why I tend to regard the book as RR's version of events - its narrative doesn't always seem to fit with other things I've heard about those years.
Finally, we don't know what caused the rift between Carr and RR, but seeing as Carr invited RR to take the job here, I can't help thinking that RR did something to encourage Carr to stay away.
November 13th, 2017 at 9:19 PM ^
November 14th, 2017 at 1:16 AM ^
What transfer are you claiming Carr facilitated?
November 12th, 2017 at 3:49 PM ^
November 13th, 2017 at 9:14 PM ^
November 12th, 2017 at 1:28 PM ^
November 12th, 2017 at 1:31 PM ^
November 12th, 2017 at 8:55 PM ^