November 21st, 2014 at 10:22 PM ^
Discuss?
November 21st, 2014 at 10:22 PM ^
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November 21st, 2014 at 10:23 PM ^
Har -
November 21st, 2014 at 11:21 PM ^
Who the hell is Harbauer?
November 21st, 2014 at 11:34 PM ^
Despite best efforts and best practices I couldn't find the Baugh hockey skate brand.
November 22nd, 2014 at 12:13 AM ^
about the situation and any way we might be leaning.
If anyone can find a halfway decent picture of a Vector v8.0 Recchi leftie stick it would help a bit with the sudden realization that a lot of time has passed since I bought my last stick.
November 21st, 2014 at 10:25 PM ^
November 21st, 2014 at 10:27 PM ^
November 21st, 2014 at 10:28 PM ^
November 21st, 2014 at 10:31 PM ^
The talent is young and or not that talented... I don't think they are that talented at this moment. They have a lot of potential..
November 21st, 2014 at 10:37 PM ^
The youth thing doesn't cut it. Not in Hockey. Not where we've had freshmen leaving for the NHL, and the team still not making the tournament.
November 22nd, 2014 at 8:58 AM ^
You know what? Your "fire everyone, this is UNACCEPTABLE" shtick is getting old.
You're a great fan, but you're turning into "that fan" who lacks perspective. That fan that ignores that players are kids, coaches are people. That fan that is all about what they want (winning) and not about the community, the players, the coaches.
Red Berenson is a Michigan icon. If you've lived in Ann Arbor, gone to UM you know that. The time may come for Red to step down and a change to be made. But he's earned the ability to make that choice on his terms. He doesn't need unappreciative people, who weren't even alive when he was building dynasties, to tell him he needs to win more. You act like Red is actively trying to lose. You ignore the fact that college hockey is growing and with growth comes more parity.
I know nothing about hockey. Most of us know nothing about the inside of the Michigan hockey program. But even if I did, even if I had actual details and thought Red should move on, I wouldn't go on an Internet message board and make demands for a Michigan icon's career to be ended.
EDIT: I didn't realize this was the first game of the season. It's one thing to post a reactionary thread to a loss. It's quite another to post a reactionary thread calling for a coach's head after the first game of the season. Come on.
November 22nd, 2014 at 10:12 AM ^
I regret that I have but one upvote to give.
November 22nd, 2014 at 10:26 AM ^
November 22nd, 2014 at 12:13 AM ^
Michigan is more talented than maybe five or so other teams in the NCAAs. No excuse for being as inept as they've been for 2.5 years running now
November 21st, 2014 at 10:31 PM ^
November 21st, 2014 at 10:41 PM ^
Seconded.
November 22nd, 2014 at 1:31 AM ^
I'm ok with it
November 22nd, 2014 at 1:59 AM ^
November 21st, 2014 at 10:34 PM ^
Schiano.
s/
November 21st, 2014 at 10:34 PM ^
I love Michigan hockey, but I can't name any other college hockey coach.
November 21st, 2014 at 10:35 PM ^
I mean, I hold little hope for this hockey team, but it's like you've never seen a Michigan hockey team struggle before Christmas before. That's a program calling card.
November 21st, 2014 at 10:37 PM ^
The writing is on the wall. Red's done. It's not unreasonable to start looking at the future.
November 21st, 2014 at 10:42 PM ^
That's kind of just adding more fuel to the fire, for me.
Michigan has meandered through the regular season only to realize they need to win in the regular season to get to the tournament for the past 6 years now (save one) and it's looking it will be a 7th.
I've seen literally no improvement whatsoever from last season. PP is bad, goalies aren't getting it done, and of course, the PSU monkey is back.
Just making it into the NCAA Tournament isn't good enough. I don't think Red would say that's good enough either.
I hate having to discuss this because he took Michigan Hockey from rags to riches. But he needs to step down.
November 22nd, 2014 at 12:15 AM ^
We've been awful compared to talent level for over two seasons now. This team doesn't get better anymore - they're just bad. Red's lost something and I think that something is Mel Pearson
November 21st, 2014 at 10:37 PM ^
November 21st, 2014 at 10:41 PM ^
I've never understood this sentiment. Why does a coach get to decide when he leaves just because he's been successful at a program for a while? Red is a legend, but if he's underperforming and won't step down on his own, he should be let go. Anything else is unfair to the players and the fans.
November 21st, 2014 at 10:45 PM ^
I don't think he should be fired. I think that he knows that 3 years in a row of no tournament is not acceptable.
He's even said himself that he'll walk away if he feels he's getting in the way of Michigan Hockey being successful.
I really had hope for this season with the.....ahem.....locker room issue(s), being gone.
November 21st, 2014 at 10:47 PM ^
You keep using this word "unacceptable."
November 21st, 2014 at 10:48 PM ^
Ok, but what if he doesn't?
November 21st, 2014 at 10:58 PM ^
I think he will, that's why I posted this thread.
This is not an OMG FIRE RED thread. I just wanted to get the consensus on candidates for his successor.
I hope Michigan turns this around, but losing to PSU and making the same dumb mistakes is not really giving me much hope.
November 21st, 2014 at 11:15 PM ^
I'm with you, and I think this thread is a good one. I'm was just saying that if he refuses to acknowledge that he's past his prime, he's lost the right to make the decision.
November 22nd, 2014 at 10:16 AM ^
UNACCEPTABLE!
November 22nd, 2014 at 11:58 AM ^
Well, your OP certainly resembles the kind of post you say it's not.
November 21st, 2014 at 11:10 PM ^
November 21st, 2014 at 11:11 PM ^
- I believe Red will make the right choice for Michigan.
- I'm unsure any part of Red's performance will be easily replicable by not-Red, especially if he feels wronged with the way a transition is handled.
- If you're talking about actually firing him, underperforming for another two seasons sounds more palatable than axing Red.
November 21st, 2014 at 11:17 PM ^
"Underperforming for another two seasons sounds more palatable than axing Red."
What? Why? How is that fair to the players?
November 21st, 2014 at 11:23 PM ^
Maybe the wording wasn't the best, but I thought it flowed enough with the second point. I don't think it's automatic that the next coach is an upgrade over Red. I wouldn't say "no, I'd rather keep Red and go .500 than win the conference and go to two Frozen Fours with a new guy". Underperforming would be relative to Red's standard of performance.
That said, if there was a binary choice between firing Red and winning a couple more games or not firing him and losing a couple more, the equation is more than wins per season and should include more intangible variables like what he's meant and what it would mean to have a happy Red around after he retires.
November 21st, 2014 at 11:30 PM ^
Fair enough. I guess the question is: why would we expect Red's replacement to do any better after delaying for a couple of years? Unless Red completely tanks, it's going to be the same issue in 2016. I don't think you can delay firing a mediocre coach because you're worried that his successor might also be medicore.
November 21st, 2014 at 11:35 PM ^
I think that ties back in with dealing with a legend coach. Red being Red makes me very risk averse about the coaching situation because I believe he's still a net asset and I trust that he'll make the right call about his departure.
I agree with your premise above and think this stretch of comments is all philosophical. I don't think Red will be coaching in 2016.
November 22nd, 2014 at 12:42 AM ^
For the levels of talent Michigan has, this is like Alabama football getting beaten by Sun Belt teams fairly often. If the hockey team had as much visibility as the football team did, Red probably wouldn't have been back this year.
There's a lot of coaches that I think could do better with the talent on this team
November 24th, 2014 at 8:32 AM ^
I would suggest that neither you nor I get to decide what the threshold is for a coach officially underperforming. I would also suggest that Red Berenson is more than just a coach that's "been successful at a program for a while". He's an elite level coach and easily one of the 4 or 5 top coaches in the history of Michigan athletics and, yes, that kind of excellence equity does earn him a certain amount of leeway in terms of how he finally decides to step down from his job. We shouldn't let our overdeveloped sense of entitlement as fans lead us to an embarrassing lynch mob mentality against who may be the greatest college hockey coach of the last 30 years simply because the last couple of seasons have been subpar.
There's a difference between making a coaching change when it comes to a Brady Hoke or even a Lloyd Carr versus a Red Berenson. Let's not be THAT program.
November 22nd, 2014 at 12:07 AM ^
A month after VE day, Winston Churchill got wrecked in the first election after the war.
There is nothing wrong with saying "you are the best thing that's ever happend to us, please let us know where you want your statue(s)" while simultaneously saying it's time to move on.
November 22nd, 2014 at 2:50 AM ^
Bobby Bowden was a more successful coach (in his sport) than even Red (seriously, go look at his record from 1987-2000 -- it is unbelievable). But FSU was high-class medicore for a decade b/c he was allowed to hang on to long. They finally eased him out and are back to a dominant program (and if you think that's just because of the Tallhassee police, I'm sure they were lenient on the players in the 2000s just like they are in the 2010s. They difference now is they have good coaching).
The program is floundering. This will very likely be the 3rd straight year w/o a NCAA tourney. It's time to move on.
November 21st, 2014 at 10:42 PM ^
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November 21st, 2014 at 10:45 PM ^
Reginald
November 21st, 2014 at 10:47 PM ^
There was a college hockey coach who moved into my neighborhood about 30 years ago. He seemed pretty good. Maybe he is...oh, wait. That was Red.
I say if we are doing a hockey CC Red gets to decide.
November 21st, 2014 at 11:44 PM ^
I'm pretty sure that was Kevin Arnold.
November 22nd, 2014 at 12:02 AM ^
Roseanne, was pretty obnoxious.