Head scratchers
Tell me what’s the problem? Is it time for a change? Is it the talent? Is it Don Brown? Offense didn’t really look that bad. Also, who do you think comes back next year and who’s gone? This is just becoming a norm every year. Why can’t we win big games like Auburn and LSU?! I don’t think Harbaugh is the issue either.
December 1st, 2019 at 11:38 AM ^
The answer is we aren't on a level that OSU is with Bama and Clemson. They play their best against us every year. It's that simple. Maybe Harbaugh can keep cycling through coordinators and recruiting specialists to try and get the talent up to par. Maybe he'll get lucky one year and make the playoff, thereby getting a big recruiting boost. Either way we are stuck in this purgatory for the foreseeable future.
December 1st, 2019 at 11:48 AM ^
He needs to bet on the right QB more than anything to be honest. 5 years in and we've seen OK QB play, but no great QB play under Harbaugh.
And if the next starter is McCaffrey I don't see reason to believe we'll see great play from him quickly given how little experience he's been able to get so far and of course he seems to have that unfortunate combination of scrambling ability and injury proneness...
December 1st, 2019 at 12:04 PM ^
Alabama’s best teams during their run, had subpar QB talent. It’s the Team that makes the difference. We get caught up in the recruiting star number but miss the level of that star. Yeah, we have 15+, 4 star recruits, but they fall towards the bottom of the list. QB is the least of our Team’s worries.
December 1st, 2019 at 12:08 PM ^
Agree, we got abused on both sides of the line of scrimmage. Our defensive line got pushed back 3-5 yards every play. In the second half, Shea got no time. The reason there were many drops is because Shea had to get the ball out sooner than the play dictated. Balls were getting to receivers sooner than they expected, and Shea was a little more inaccurate in the second half due to rushing. IT'S ALL ABOUT THE TRENCHES. If Ruiz goes pro, we're replacing four offensive line starters and we're fucked. Add in playing at Ohio next season and I think realistically we're looking at 2021 before we have another good chance of winning the division.
December 1st, 2019 at 1:05 PM ^
The reason there were many drops is because Shea had to get the ball out sooner than the play dictated.
I don't know about that. Until the 4th quarter, it looked to me like the WRs were getting the ball on time and pretty accurately. If a pass hits you on both hands, you've got to bring that in.
The DL got abused, but I thought the OL played well most of the game. I didn't hear Chase Young's name called much. Only in the 4th quarter did their pass rush really start to make a difference IMO.
December 1st, 2019 at 12:10 PM ^
That reasoning makes no sense. Why mention that Alabama has been able to do it without elite QBs when you acknowledge immediately thereafter that we're nowhere near Alabama in overall recruiting.
The simple reality is that whenever Michigan in the last 30+ years has been a legit good team they did so with a NFL QB. When you don't have NFL talent across the board then having NFL talent at some key positions is even more relevant. QB being one of them. A great QB can elevate a mediocre program to relevance, and turn a good program into a very good one.
December 1st, 2019 at 12:38 PM ^
It seems to me that there is a difference between a 4or5 star that chooses Michigan over other schools. The one thing RR knew he needed to win wasn't necessarily 4-5 stars it was recruits with a hard edged. He was right and that is the difference between a 5star OSU recruit and 5star Michigan recruit
December 1st, 2019 at 12:43 PM ^
?? How did that work out for RR here?
December 1st, 2019 at 12:53 PM ^
It obviously didn't but the last time M beat OSU they had a hard nosed group of athletes that played with a ton of more attitude and aggression
December 1st, 2019 at 1:03 PM ^
Not really. OSU had an interim coach and a team that was talented but in desperate need of coaching. We had Denard and that was barely enough to beat a team that had been unmotivated all season but still nearly stepped up to beat us. If not for a very slightly overthrown ball with under a minute to go, we wouldn;t even have that victory to fall back on.
December 1st, 2019 at 1:06 PM ^
Or maybe it was just that we played a crappy 6-7 OSU team - which still took us to the wire, anyway.
December 1st, 2019 at 3:16 PM ^
Those are all good points, and I have no idea why I mentioned RR. I must be dead inside.
December 1st, 2019 at 12:22 PM ^
And yet Auburn still finds ways to steal a game from Bama here and there.
December 1st, 2019 at 12:23 PM ^
Bama sucks. Haven’t you stayed up on current events? Saban is on the hot seat.
December 1st, 2019 at 12:32 PM ^
Not sure if you’re serious? But yesterday wasn’t the first time Auburn beat them in the last ten years
December 1st, 2019 at 12:41 PM ^
Are you seriously not sure?
December 1st, 2019 at 2:01 PM ^
Surely you can’t be serious.
December 1st, 2019 at 4:20 PM ^
Don’t call me Shirley
December 1st, 2019 at 1:21 PM ^
Need more Dawgs on both lines. With the way offense is played nowadays, your only chance is repetitive penetration. That's how OSU beat Bama in 2014. That's how we almost beat OSU in 2016. That's why Clemson wins against equally talented teams. And if we had better DL, our OL would improve from practicing against them (in theory at least).
December 1st, 2019 at 11:40 AM ^
It’s talent. You don’t want to see Don brown coaching all that osu talent like when they tried to poach him last year
December 1st, 2019 at 11:48 AM ^
Funny someone downvoted you for this...Ohio State...the team that just demolished us...wanted Don Brown for this year...what does Ohio State’s Football program know that fans on here don’t? If Mattison can coach a 12-0 defense at Ohio State, I wonder what Don Brown can do with that talent.
December 1st, 2019 at 12:13 PM ^
We saw what he could do in 2016 with essentially that level (which was assembled by Mattison and Hoke), and it was the best UM defense since 1997 despite still learning the scheme being his first season.
Guys trying too hard, playing undisciplined, and lack of talent at DT and S were the biggest reasons for the failure yesterday.
December 1st, 2019 at 12:29 PM ^
So is it lack of recruiting or coaching?
December 1st, 2019 at 12:52 PM ^
Mostly recruiting in my mind. How many starters from this defense would start on the 2016 defense? Zero.
Further, you put UM's defensive starters and OSU's starters on the same team, how many UM players would start? Maybe McGrone, maybe Ambry and Vert.
December 1st, 2019 at 2:23 PM ^
Agree. I don’t think Hill or Thomas would start over Okudah and Arnette either.
December 1st, 2019 at 12:39 PM ^
The two biggest issues are the talent disparity and that CFB has changed so that elite offensives are generally ahead of elite defenses, schematically.
But I think there's also a third issue, particular to these two staffs. Don Brown had a fantastic gameplan in 2016, really outcoaching the OSU offensive staff. But then OSU hired Day (who had been the Boston College DC) and then poached Mattison and Washington from us, so they now have three coaches who are familiar with Brown's tendencies. So they have more talent and it's tough for us to win the RPS battle.
December 1st, 2019 at 12:57 PM ^
If this was significant, wouldn’t the inverse be true? I suspect this has less to do with it over talent levels. The issues were the line of scrimmage. Period. There were times Fields could have made a sandwich back there. The line was blown up run blocking. The d-line coach is a question mark. He hasn’t brought in any significant recruits either.
December 1st, 2019 at 1:09 PM ^
Yes, you could argue that Brown is familiar with Day's schemes, too. But Day has better talent and again, offenses generally have the edge in CFB anyway. The point is, we badly needed to win the RPS battle to compensate for the talent disparity, and against this particular staff, that may be especially difficult now. (Even with some RPS victories, we'd probably have still given up 40-45 points, just not 56.)
It wasn't just the LOS that was an issue. Our safeties had major issues staying behind their wideouts deep.
December 1st, 2019 at 12:55 PM ^
Wouldn’t undisciplined play and lack of proper recruiting at safety/DT be coaching issues? I’m not on the fire Harbaugh wagon but it appears that there have been some flagrant miscues on defense by this staff.
December 1st, 2019 at 12:24 PM ^
These games are mostly won on the line of scrimmage.
December 1st, 2019 at 12:35 PM ^
Seriously. People calling for Don Browns head....picture him on the OSU sideline....does anyone like the thought of that?
And to the op, if you have a company and you’re consistently disappointed in the results/product, how do you not blame the CEO? I’m not saying Harbaugh is 100% the problem, but it’s his responsibility regardless.
December 1st, 2019 at 2:24 PM ^
Imagine what DB would do with OSU talent? Give up 62 points to Michigan. Sarcasm of course...
December 1st, 2019 at 11:41 AM ^
Lack of discipline and prep.
December 1st, 2019 at 11:59 AM ^
Honestly this, more than anything else. So many unforced errors yesterday.
Maybe they need to practice more, or at least differently.
December 1st, 2019 at 12:09 PM ^
We definitely made a lot of mistakes, but even if we'd played a mistake-free game, I think it still would have been a tossup game at best. Having less talent means having less margin for error.
This is more a problem on defense. On offense you can creatively scheme your way to points (and we had a pretty good gameplan). But if your defensive line can't get any push, OSU will just hand off to Dobbins 30 times. If your free safety isn't that fast, OSU will throw deep at him multiple times. It's hard to mask defensive shortcomings against an opponent that has no offensive weaknesses.
December 1st, 2019 at 12:36 PM ^
yep this is the culprit. The talent gap is there but not the main reason. It's poor coaching and attitude.
December 1st, 2019 at 12:46 PM ^
What deficiency did you see in attitude yesterday?
December 1st, 2019 at 2:52 PM ^
Pulling OSU players shoes off. Late hits out of bounds.
December 1st, 2019 at 11:41 AM ^
JK Dobbins was a 4 star APB who is extremely talented and looks like a 5 star stud first rounder.
We get 4 stars too, but ours don't look like theirs...is it a talent gap or coaching gap?
December 1st, 2019 at 12:19 PM ^
OSU is better in the trenches and has been ever since Meyer took over. The 2016 and 2017 seasons our D line matched up well against their O line. No coincidence that those are the two years that we damn near won, even with average to below average play on the offensive side of the ball.
If I were Don Brown and Harbaugh I would study the OSU offensive line and figure out who to recruit that would be best suited to counter them. Because if you can play OSU's O line to a stalemate, you will likely beat the rest of the teams on your schedule without much problem. How different would yesterday's game be if half of Dobbins runs went for 0 or 2 yards? If we pressured Fields on half his drop backs?
December 1st, 2019 at 2:00 PM ^
Yea, that's the spirit! And why stop there!
How different would the game be if wolverines had just scored on every possession and stopped ohio state on half!!!
December 1st, 2019 at 11:45 AM ^
More head scratchers...
Why were there so many Buckeye fans? I was there and there was a ton of them. I was at the game last year also and there was only a sprinkle of M fans.
Why do people sell their tickets instead of supporting their team?
December 1st, 2019 at 12:22 PM ^
A combination of things:
-In a 110,000-seat stadium there are always a lot of seats available for whatever reason
-Thanksgiving weekend probably increases the total because of various family conflicts people may have (the league needs to move the game a week earlier)
-Michigan fans have become pessimistic about winning vs OSU, so they aren't eager to buy
-OSU fans have become optimistic about winning vs Michigan, so they are eager to buy
December 1st, 2019 at 11:47 AM ^
OSU is a machine who has dominated a conference for 15 years. They are unrivaled in recruiting in their conference and as an offense they are a machine. Every QB is successful, they recruit speed and put those players in best position to be successful. Players like Samuel and Dobbins would be solely RB or WR here and not flexed like they are there. Basically we need two-three home run recruiting classes that outperform theirs to get back on track. We are a good program, we just happen to be 2 steps behind our rival
December 1st, 2019 at 11:52 AM ^
#STARSMATTER
December 1st, 2019 at 12:44 PM ^
#except for running backs, defensive ends, QBs & kickers.
cuz we’ve had nothing but utter disappointments with our 5* players at these positions.
our best RB of the past 20yrs was a low 3* that is over what?? 4 different 5*’s?
Rashan 5* Gary won’t scratch Chase Young’s NFL career, hell Chase fucking 3* Winovich will bury him in production.
not saying it doesn’t matter cuz it does but name our last 5* that lived up?
December 1st, 2019 at 12:02 PM ^
The problem is 100 threads all asking the same thing
December 1st, 2019 at 12:04 PM ^
The problem is we were overmatched up front on defense. When you can't get pressure on the QB it puts a ton of stress on the secondary, especially when they're chasing guys that run 4.5 or better. We were pushed back 2 yards on every running play and Dobbins picked up chunks with ease. This is the main reason we were blown out. It is the main reason we were blown out at Wisconsin. I don't know if we panicked as a team but we were certainly pressing to get the D off the field. Then the pressure mounts on the offense to score on every drive as you fall further behind. You start playing with a heightened sense of urgency and play to not make mistakes. Mistakes pile up when this happens.
It's the recipe for how a team gets blown out. Losing Aubrey Solomon hurt. But we needed him and at least another like him to challenge OSU this season. It really is all about dominating the trenches. When was the last time OSU had average line talent? I can't remember.
December 1st, 2019 at 12:08 PM ^
Last year the problem was scheme and talent gap. This year it was a series of mental follies combined with a razor-thin margin for error due to the talent gap in the trenches.
I’m optimistic that our offense is finally catching up to the elite programs. Shea was two blunders away from having 275 yards and 3 TDs in the first half. If we get that kind of performance from DCaff or Milton next year, this team can beat anybody.