Harbaugh Responds
I'm sure Brian will address this soon, but in the mean time, here it is. Harbaugh commented yesterday about the Anderson situation. Here is the quote:
"Well, I can tell you this. Bo Schembecheler - there was nothing that I saw in the times that I was a kid here, my dad was on the staff, or that I played here - that he never sat on anything. He never procrastinated on anything. He took care of it before the sun went down, so that's the Bo Schembechler that I know. There was nothing that ever was swept under the rug or ignored. He addressed everything in a timely fashion. That's the Bo Schembechler that I know."
This article then quotes a section from the official report as a rebuttal:
"A member of the football team in the late 1970s told DPSS that he received a genital examination from Dr. Anderson, who fondled his testicles, and a rectal examination, during which the student athlete pushed Dr. Anderson’s hand away. The student athlete told DPSS that he asked Mr. Schembechler “soon” after the exam, “What’s up with the finger in the butt treatment by Dr. Anderson?” According to the student athlete, Mr. Schembechler told him to “toughen up.” The student athlete told DPSS that “you do not mess with Bo, and the matter was dropped.” The student athlete, who is represented by counsel, declined our interview request."
Good point there…
Feagin Feags
Simple, yet eloquent.
All Harbaugh's quote essentially says is that this was HIS experience with somebody. I don't see him endorsing or denying anything. Personally, I don't find this to be very controversial.
This was my take, mostly a nothing burger but I do wish he would have done more to acknowledge the victims in this statement.
Edit: The more I thought about it my response is pretty poor. I left it here but feel free to send me to Bolivia.
I don't disagree. In my opinion it would have been better if Harbaugh had added something to the affect of "The report is very damning. I'd like to believe that if Bo had information about the safety of his players he would have acted on it. I can't ask Bo what happened. I only hope the report and the university do right by the victims." Or something similar.
But Harbaugh's response was nowhere close to this.
Did you read his post? He literally starts with "it would have been better if Harbaugh had added something to the affect of..."
He starts with not disagreeing with the OP, which is that Harbaugh's statement was fine..but then goes on to say that it should have been totally different.
Two things that are quite different from one another can both be fine.
We'll all have our different takes. But to speak from an anecdotal perspective--I didn't see anything--when a careful and conclusive report, drawing on the experience of many--affirms something painful, longstanding, and awful, just isn't smart.
I get that Jimmy might feel protective of Bo, of his legacy. But this is why you have an AD, preferably one with enough testicles to intervene or advise. Speaking first to the victims and their pain is PR 101. And there are a lot of victims.
From a PR perspective, again, the question isn't what you or I think, it's how this is going to go down. If you're going to produce resentment--and this will; if you're going to give your enemies ammo ("they're no better than we are") then you want to skip it.
IMO, this was not an incredibly bright or well-thought move.
Yeah, it's really a coach-speak answer in which Harbaugh stated he didn't see/hear about anything and he assumes Bo would have taken care of it when he heard about it because that was his "style". Of course, the latter doesn't appear to be true but I get a sense Harbaugh wasn't making an excuse. It's a loaded question and he sort of gave a nothing answer, which is what I'd expect.
JH's quote is the same take that William Stempfel had about Larry Nasser. We didn't like that one...
That very well may be his experience and that’s totally fine if he was unaware of things at the time. But he has no reason to be be unaware now and I think many of us would have preferred some kind of acknowledgment that there very much were victims whose experience was drastically different from his.
It is not hard to understand that Bo was not a doctor, and we all are conditioned to submit to authority.... Thats the danger with authority... theres nobody above them to keep in check....Ever see Eyes Wide Shut ? That was what it was alluding to... and Anderson surely crafted his game as being a unpleasant, but necessary procedure....hence Bo saying to toughen up, as the exam is necessary, and I'm quite sure he did think this... the explanation was for rectal cancer or whatever..... if you want to say Bo failed, the only thing I'd agree with is that if multiple players over and over were complaining, that he should have asked other doctors about the appropriateness of it.
hence Bo saying to toughen up, as the exam is necessary
Getting back out there after taking a hit is one thing.
But, ummm, I don't think you need a medical degree to question the necessity of an anal probe to play football. Your take is a horrible one and you should be ashamed.
I should be ashamed ? F*ck you. Ever get a physical done? They fondle your balls.... they claim its to check for tumor or cancer growth. You submit to it because you think they know better, when they operate from the top authority. Doctors can be quite convincing in their esoteric talk.
Errrr... if your doctor is fondling your balls you need a new doctor. Words and their meanings matter, and there's a difference between examining and fondling.
These players were uncomfortable enough with these "procedures" that they told their head football coach about them. I can't imagine talking to anyone about something like that unless I was absolutely positive something untoward had happened.
Of course, but I'm not sure what your point is. People feel uncomfortable about necessary, appropriate procedures all the time. But if a kid told me they were fondled by their doctor, I would have questions.
FYI your post reads like there is no reason for a doctor to inspect that part of your body. "Fondling" could be interpreted as a dramatic substitute for touching in the context of both your posts. You meant it in terms of extended inappropriate contact? That's not what the previous poster seemed to be referring to. Both of you could have been more clear.
You're right, I definitely could have been more clear. My understanding is that the word "fondling" has a sexual and therefore negative connotation in this context but I suppose others could use it differently. I wouldn't describe my doctor examining my genitals as fondling because a) I'm aware of the reason and b) it's not done in a way that makes me uncomfortable.
I guess my point is that as a coach, if something happened in the course of a physical that was uncomfortable enough for the player that they brought it up to you as an authority figure, it's mandatory that you follow up on it even if you think it might be a legitimate medical reason for the exam to be performed that way.
And for the sake of argument, how do we know that Bo didn't follow up with other doctors?
When I was that age in the 80s, I had a doctor perform a rectal exam and fondle my balls. I thought it was odd at the time, but I assumed that he was checking everything out for any sort of irregularities or concerns. I certainly didn't enjoy it and right or wrong, but I also didn't come to the conclusion that he was doing this for his personal benefit.
I could totally imagine Bo talking to others in the medical establishment and having them back up that doing these sorts of exams were appropriate and valuable. Testicular cancer is most common in your 20s and 30s, of course.
Bottom line is we need to listen to the victims as a whole and see what their conclusions are before any of us draw our conclusions. I think what Harbaugh (someone who was actually there and was potentially one of the victims) made a straightforward and honest statement from his perspective.
Once more victims come forward with their stories, the conclusions may be different.
You know, when they check for small breast cancer lumps, it's a motion that could be called fondling, unless you have a better term, which no player would have.
It sucks that a piece of shit Doctor in high authority duped everyone, and I'm pissed that Bo fell for it.
I feel dirty defending this because the whole situation is tragic, but it was the 80s and the acceptable medical standards was much less common knowledge. To me it's entirely possible that in that time period he was alive in, Bo didn't recognize the abuse for what it was. However, that doesn't completely dissolve him of responsibility as he has shown in other situations to put in the extra effort to make sure its up to snuff. "The buck stops with me"
It's also possible that he did know that it was wrong and he actively didn't do anything about it to cover it up. It's hard to know after all this time
Knowledge of medical practice AND how sexual predators operate is soooo much greater and widely shared now than it was 30+ years ago. What seems so obvious now was not at all obvious then. Saying otherwise is either ignorance or stupidity.
Have you ever seen the Family Guy episode where Peter gets his first prostate exam. He has no idea what the doctor is doing. He's just told to drop his drawers and bend over. His question is this: "Is that where you check the hear rate?" He then goes screaming out of the exam room with his pants at his ankles, cries rape and sues the doctor.
I am in no way minimizing what Anderson did. It was abhorrent. His body should be dug up, hanged, drawn and quartered then burned and the ashes dumped into a porta-potty.
But is it possible, from Bo's viewpoint, that he saw a young man who didn't know what to expect when he got his first prostate exam? That his comment was to toughen up because this is what medical science does and it's looking out for your good health? Because Bo trusted the authority of the doctor?
We'll never know what really went through Bo's mind, if he was complicit (doubtful), negligent or ignorant.
I'm just sorry that people like Anderson have to exist.
But is it possible, from Bo's viewpoint, that he saw a young man who didn't know what to expect when he got his first prostate exam?
Put your thinking cap on for a second. What 18-22 year old needs a prostate check. Especially considering the state of the art in medicine in the 70s?!
I don't know, what would be included in a "comprehensive physical?" I did a quick search for exam requirements and checked on the exam requirements for a few of the universities that came up. All required this level of exam for athletes.
A comprehensive physical includes a prostate exam for men. It also includes examination of the scrotal contents, looking for hydroceles, etc.
I have been trying to remember sports physicals in the late 70’s and early 80’s, and the military exams. I know they were unpleasant and uncomfortable, and could swear I had the first prostate exam (or whatever they were checking) as part of the procedure as a teenager for one of these reasons. As such I am not sure how I would have differentiated between normal practice and crossing the line other than extra exams during diagnosis of unrelated injuries.
Put on your thinking cap for a second. Prostate exams were common even for young men in the 1970s. I routinely got one from my Navy doctor starting at age 18 in my annual physical, and that was in the late 1970s. No one was happier than I when the PSA test was developed.
Ever get a physical done? They fondle your balls.
Yes
In the military at the physical. Never for HS sports though.
A hernia check is not the same thing as an anal probe. The notion that you think it is says a lot more about you than me. Neg away.
I played football from to 8th-12th grade in the aughts and I got the hernia check every single summer. I think I may have even had to get one for little league baseball in 5th or 6th grade at the turn of the century, can't remember.
You kind of do.
I mean, I don't mean to delegitimize what the individual who reported the exam to Bo said. It 100% depends on context and how the conversation was framed, etc. But I received a DRE early on (early 30s) and I remember it distinctly because it was so unexpected. After the fact, I asked around with friends, including a friend who was a doctor, about whether it's "normal" for someone my age to get a DRE, and all of them laughed it off and said yeah it can be. Granted, I wasn't asking it from the perspective of I thought I had gotten molested, it was more of a medical curiosity and just kind of a funny way to shoot the shit (no pun intended) with friends about the doctor who stuck his finger up my butt.
The thing is, in none of the conversations I brought it up did my friends think I was molested, or immediately ask follow up questions to determine the medical appropriateness of the procedure. I remember distinctly because I was with a group of friends when I asked my doctor friend about when it would be appropriate to do a DRE for someone my age and my friend gave me a look like "are you SURE you want me to list the embarrassing symptoms that YOU evidently had that led to your DRE?"
So, I dunno. I dunno if Bo was a shithead for not following up or if he was just like "I don't want to hear about what you told the doctor that led him to do that exam on you." I'm not going to cast judgment either way. I suspect that at least some of Anderson's victims don't blame Bo, because I've seen them do interviews in their house and they still have Bo pictures and quotes and whatnot around their houses.
We know a few players approached Bo about Dr. Anderson's exams. We know that he pushed it up to Canham and when Canham didn't do anything about it, Bo let it go. I think we can safely assume that more players than we know of right now went to Bo about it. There will be players involved with the civil suit that were probably advised by their legal counsel not to participate in the report that was conducted.
Bo wrote a book on leadership. Bo was a dictatorial control freak, and I don't mean that as an insult. There are stories about how he checked up on players with summer jobs to ensure that it was a legit job and not a cushy one given by a booster. Bo helped out Billy Taylor when he didn't have to. Bo went the extra mile for seemingly everything. Bo said the buck stops with him. I think its hard to reconcile the image that he gave us - the leader that was accountable to everyone in the room, that would die for his players, that would do anything within his power to ensure that they got what they deserved - with the idea that he would just let this issue go.
This is the same excuse people use for Kathy Klages.
I am sure that is the Bo that Harbaugh knew. But not everybody gets to see the same Bo. If Harbaugh had been a victim of Dr. Anderson, he might have gotten to know a different Bo.
Bo meant alot to Harbaugh. I think he will have a hard time reconciling some of the stories that will come out. And that's normal. I only had good memories of my grandpa. Now that he's been gone for 20 years and I am now an adult, I've heard stories of how abusive he was to my mom and her siblings and my grandma. It's tough to pair that information with my experience.
I only had good memories of my grandpa. Now that he's been gone for 20 years and I am now an adult, I've heard stories of how abusive he was to my mom and her siblings and my grandma. It's tough to pair that information with my experience.
Exact same thing is happening to my wife. Lost her grandfather last year.
Grandpa was essentially her dad. She worshiped him. Every decision she made in her life was about him.
Turns out dear 'ol gramps was abusive to his family and not a very nice person.
She's having a hard time reconciling all that.
You hang in there!
Fine.
Harbaugh didn't get the Anderson experience.
In the face of all the information in the report, I think it's safe to say this is bigger than JH's personal opinion.
The inability for him to admit that Bo screwed up is a red flag for me. It's really not that hard to say that.
Harbaugh loved Bo. Considered him a father figure and a mentor and that the Bo he knew is not the Bo described in the report. Harbaugh is describing his personal experience with the man. And such a description does not throw shade on the Anderson report. It is possible, and actually quite human, to experience dissonance. Hell, I could imagine grieving the falling of a personal icon. It certainly is not worthy of throwing a red flag at his feet.
Just my opinion, I do understand others feeling that Harbaugh's statement was lacking.
That's a valid point. I guess for me it's not a big deal to say here's this person I care about, and in this instance they messed up. To me it's disingenuous not to be able to criticize the actions of someone you care about.
This subject obviously means 1000x more to Harbaugh than the average poster here given his close connection to Bo. That being said, this is still a Penn State level head-in-the-sand comment.
Unfortunately, I agree
His whole response for me is a yikes. He had all this time to prepare for this question and this is what he responded with and didn't acknowledge the victims at all? Yikes.
That's where I'm at too. It's okay to say "this is unlike the Bo I knew" as long as you acknowledge what "this" is and clarify that "I didn't see anything" doesn't mean "there isn't anything." I hope against hope there's more to the quote.
I get that Jim's in a tough and very personal situation here--he was there and his dad was on staff while this was happening. But it was also his teammates being abused. I'm very disappointed right now.
Agreed, not that hard to say "My experience is not everyone's, so I can't speak for Dr. Anderson's victims and I won't speak for them. My personal experience with Bo was ........ but that may not have been everybody's experience."
I too was going for the moral high ground but found it awfully crowded up there again. The guy normally avoids giving more than one sentence answers to anything--even things he actually knows a lot about such as a football game that was just played. The fact that he ineloquently waded through this answer on this topic is not at all surprising. He's inarticulate! Hell, Seth, Brian, and Sam struggled through an hour-long podcast trying to wrap themselves around this verbally, and these are very articulate guys. And still, the golden child threw a tantrum and had the whole episode cancelled. It's a difficult issue to get right.
Not sure he's losing sleep that we're disappointed in his statement.