Harbaugh Haters Have a Point (Maybe)
I'll eat shit a little bit as a so called "Harbaugh defender" because it's become obvious even to my biased eyes that Harbaugh's teams play really tight in big games and big moments. And it's not hard to draw a line between this pattern of behavior and Harbaugh's jitteriness for lack of a better term. He's intense in a way that seems to work at the NFL level but not so much with 18-to-22 year-olds. Unfortunately, this aspect of his coaching probably isn't going away.
The "Fire Harbaugh" crowd sees this and wants to roll the dice on a new head coach, even if the odds are uncomfortably high that his hypothetical replacement will trend closer to Brady Hoke/Rich Rod than Dabo Sweeney or even Lloyd Carr 2.0. Take the blinders off and look around the country. Elite program after elite program has floundered trying to find that perfect coach. Hell, look at what's happening at Penn State! A not-so-small faction of the Nittany Lion fanbase wants to exile James Franklin, who by any reasonable standard is one of the best coaches in the country. It's easy to fall in love with the potential of the unknown.
The million dollar question in the debate over Harbaugh's future is whether Michigan's ceiling is capped if he remains the head coach. Even a lot of Harbaugh supporters seem to be arguing for his higher floor than defending the possibility that he still gives Michigan a high ceiling. Personally, I am with the Harbaugh haters who want/expect/demand a head coach that gives Michigan a high ceiling. I don't want to settle for an endless parade of 8-4 or 9-3 seasons for the foreseeable future. But I disagree that Harbaugh doesn't give Michigan a high ceiling.
Yes, the jitteriness and general chaos Harbaugh exudes is not exactly conducive to peek performances in big games but I don't think it's insurmountable. The biggest issues in Harbaugh's tenure have been failures at quarterback and a total misunderstanding of what type of assistant coach he needs to hire. And who could blame him? He had achieved wild success everywhere he went by hiring the type of coaches he has consistently courted at Michigan. It took until this season to finally hire the right type of coaches: young, energetic assistants who bring with them college specific schemes and are willing to bust their balls on the recruiting trail.
If Harbaugh has finally found his star quarterback (either a continuously improving Cade McNamara or a down-the-road J.J. McCarthy) and if he has indeed hired the right assistants this time (pending a learning curve from Mike MacDonald, who got absolutely owned on Saturday), then what's the actual argument in favor of canning Harbaugh? Anyone can say "fire Harbaugh" but name a program that isn't a mess in the entire country outside of Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State, Clemson, Oklahoma, Oregon and Notre Dame. Even Penn State is on shaky ground apparently. And Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State and Clemson have built-in advantages that Michigan simply can't match year in and year out. And the guy many Wolverine fans think could be our savior (Matt Campbell) doesn't even seem to be on the radar of places like USC and LSU. That should probably tell us something.
November 1st, 2021 at 10:34 PM ^
9-4, 8-4, 12-0, 10-3, 10-2, 9-3, 8-4, 10-3, 10-3, 9-3, 7-5, 11-2, 9-4.
Sure. Nothing like Harbaugh. Not actual numbers or anything. Whatever helps you sleep at night. Carr gets an abundance of credit for his national title and leading 3 loss teams to conference titles. Harbaugh gets criticism for the same results (minus the national title) for the simple fact that you can no longer win a championship with three losses.
Mind you, I’m CRITICAL of Harbaugh. I was among those that wanted him gone last year. But acting like Carr was producing better results than him is just silly. Carr benefitted from significantly more favorable conditions and posted essentially the same record on a year to year basis with one significant outlier.
November 1st, 2021 at 11:30 PM ^
Harbaugh: 2-13 against top ten
Lloyd: 19-8
The two are not the same.
You can have similar records which Carr does with less important wins.
November 2nd, 2021 at 8:10 AM ^
Yup. I’m certain that the heat would be off Harbaugh if he lost to Illinois and Purdue instead of Ohio State and MSU. ?
November 2nd, 2021 at 8:58 AM ^
Gee, I think it’s actually a feather in Harbaugh’s cap that his losses are coming to quality teams instead of Carr dropping head scratchers every year…
You can have similar records which Carr does with worse losses. It works both ways.
November 1st, 2021 at 6:37 PM ^
I think Harbaugh has changed the tide on the rivalry. Hell people in Ohio are starting to believe him. Never in a million years I would have thought that. Selling Michigan jerseys is a good start.
November 1st, 2021 at 6:39 PM ^
The only real issue I have had with this program is the tempo issue. We haven’t learned since 07 how to play against a tempo offense and we sure as hell don’t know how to run one. That has not been a harbaugh issue alone though.
November 1st, 2021 at 6:43 PM ^
Not in the "fire Harbaugh" crowd but a true believer in the "just fix the obvious stuff, Coach Harbaugh" crowd (two-minute drill; substitutions; zone-read with a QB capable of running zone-read; self-scout more critically; end-zone fades to someone taller than 5'11''; etc.).
November 1st, 2021 at 6:57 PM ^
This is his coaching record at Michigan to date:
3-4 versus MSU
0-5 versus OSU
3-3 versus PSU
3-3 versus Wisconsin
1-1 versus Iowa
1-1 versus ND
20-21 versus P5 teams that finished above .500
Tied for 1st B1G East Division once
Finished 3rd or worse in the East Division 5 times.
1-4 in Bowl games.
People can draw whatever conclusions that they want...
November 1st, 2021 at 7:31 PM ^
Sounds like the pinnacle of success to me. Probably not a single coach in the country (not named Saban) who could possibly achieve more…
November 1st, 2021 at 10:16 PM ^
... said USC, Nebraska, Florida State, Virginia Tech, LSU, UCLA, Auburn, Miami, Texas, Penn State, and Washington, among others.
Yeah, fuck 10-2 and 9-3! I'd much rather be in the hell that is Nebraska and Texas -- and that we ourselves had from 2008-2014! How quickly we forgot how easy it is to fall to mediocrity, and how relatively difficult it is to be a consistent nine- or ten-win team.
If we need to move on from Harbaugh, ok, but geez, let's not fail to acknowledge that he achieved quite a bit in getting us back to "very good."
Not "great," maybe. But man, "very good" is a better place to be than Florida State these days.
November 2nd, 2021 at 5:20 AM ^
How much you want to bet if FSU fans were to be polled if they wanted Jim Harbaugh as their coach the majority would say no? As would every blue blood and borderline blue blood fanbase after seeing his results.
November 2nd, 2021 at 9:01 AM ^
I would take that bet.I don't know any FSU fans but I know a Tennessee fan who told me that he would very much like Harbaugh if he were available.
November 2nd, 2021 at 4:34 PM ^
How much do you want to bet that if Michigan played in the ACC Atlantic that Harbaugh would have a bunch more wins?
November 1st, 2021 at 10:51 PM ^
Woof!
November 1st, 2021 at 7:00 PM ^
Are you capable of having a thought and not immediately shitposting it? Probably a rhetorical question, because the answer appears to be a resounding no.
November 1st, 2021 at 7:16 PM ^
I don't know what exactly this means , but if you could take a poll of your Rivals fanbase (OSU, MSU) and ask would you want Harbaugh to move on to another job I'm pretty sure they would answer that question with a 100% saying NO. Now ask Michigan fans the same question about Day and Tucker and we all would pretty much say Yes.
Not a good thing when your hated rivals pray Jim Harbaugh is never fired. Just some food for thought.
November 1st, 2021 at 7:45 PM ^
I said this in another thread, but I think it bears repeating.
It really does sadden me how quickly a lot of us went away from the proper emotion of frustration to being OK with things.
I don't need to repeat the stats, because you all know what they are. People can make all the excuses they want about referring, not getting the right QB, having to find the right coaches, the right scheme, whatever.
At the end of this day, this dude has been here seven years and we know what he is. I think it's pretty fair to say that Harbaugh simply can't win the big game at Michigan. When his teams face immense odds in pressure within a game, the team falls apart. That's on the coaches. That's on them taking a timeout when MSU is going full speed. That's on not making adjustments to counter the adjustments MSU was making.
If you guys are happy with 8-10 win seasons and not winning the Big Ten, FINE! Be happy with what you are seeing. He brought this program back out of the depths, and I appreciate him for that. But he simply cannot win big games, and at this point, I don't see evidence he ever will.
If you aren't happy with what you are seeing (I'm absolutely not), then Harbaugh needs to go.
I will never forget how quickly people wanted Beilein fired after his third year when they stepped back and missed the tournament. It baffles me why Jim Harbaugh is given so much leniency compared to Beilein.
November 2nd, 2021 at 12:08 AM ^
Because most of the people who are in charge of making these decisions/are large chunks of the fanbase are near Harbaugh's age and they hate the idea of firing an alum.
November 1st, 2021 at 7:47 PM ^
We had a Heisman winner the last time we won a national championship. Change the coach all day long, but without those caliber players, you're just wasting your time.
Harbaugh has had enough time to pull in teams of comparable talent to Ohio State and he's failed.
We aren't winning any of the games that matter with any degree of regularity with his X's and O's or his Jimmies and Joes.
It's time to bring on someone who will.
November 1st, 2021 at 7:57 PM ^
Harbaugh is definitely not perfect, but trying to find an elite coach at the present time could be really difficult. There are big programs that are already looking for new coaches for next year. UM would likely end up with someone worse than Harbaugh.
November 1st, 2021 at 8:03 PM ^
Anyone can say "fire Harbaugh" but name a program that isn't a mess in the entire country outside of Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State, Clemson, Oklahoma, Oregon and Notre Dame. Even Penn State is on shaky ground apparently. And Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State and Clemson have built-in advantages that Michigan simply can't match year in and year out. And the guy many Wolverine fans think could be our savior (Matt Campbell) doesn't even seem to be on the radar of places like USC and LSU.
Maybe you haven't been keeping up with current events but Clemson is 5-3 and 4-2 in the ACC Atlantic. Suddenly not having Dashaun Watson, Trevor Lawrence or Travis Etienne has brought that program crashing back down to earth where they are not a top 25 team.
Last year everyone was all hot for Matt Campbell but Campbell has NEVER beaten his main rival in Iowa. Think about that. The knock on Harbaugh is his record against his rivals and here in Campbell with a record of not beating his rival.
November 1st, 2021 at 8:16 PM ^
you realize what Iowa State has been historically right? They might have 9 seasons with 8 wins or more in their history...and 4 were on Campbell's watch.
Even with Matt Campbell, I think the best they've ever recruited is in the high forties. Iowa routinely out recruits Iowa State because of generational ineptitude on the football field.
please don't bring Clemson into the conversation...compare Swinney's 7 year run to Harbaugh and its not even close.
November 1st, 2021 at 9:55 PM ^
It’s impressive what Campbell has done Iowa State. Something tells me Clemson will be just fine. Even if Clemson goes to sucking ass wouldn’t you trade being pretty horrendous for several years to have multiple big ten championships and several national titles? Hell it’s be awesome to be LSU it’s basically been Harbaugh Michigan for a while but that one magical season in 2019 would be worth it
Harbaugh isn’t a bad college coach even though it feels like it sometimes. He isn’t great either. He’s above average.
If anybody in December 2014 looked in a crystal ball and saw his record from 2015-current none of them would have been excited. He wasn’t hired to go 9-4 or 10-3 with consistent loses to MSU and OSU.
That wasn’t the goal when you went out and offered him 7 million dollars a year. You went after him to win championships. He hasn’t.
the program is in a better place in talent and culture than it was in 2014. Who can get it over the hump and win a big ten title once ever 5 years or so?
November 2nd, 2021 at 4:57 PM ^
I agree with a lot of what you wrote but I think people are underestimating what it is like to play in the B1G East. It is a difficult Division to win, especially when you have cross over games against Wisconsin and Iowa.
Now look back and imagine that the Big Ten didn't break up the Legends & Leaders Divisions. Just looking at Michigan's record, how many Legends Division titles would Harbaugh have? I hate to say this but just to bring some parity Michigan needs to move out of a Division with Ohio State and drop playing Ohio State every year. Doing that will give Michigan more wins and titles but it won't necessarily make Michigan a better team. When judging Harbaugh you have to compare what it is like playing in the B1G East.
November 2nd, 2021 at 4:48 PM ^
So which is it then, a good coach with a good program who just can't win the big game or just a small time program? Everyone is knocking Harbaugh for his record against Ohio State and Michigan State yet there a all sort of excuses for Campbell who can't win a game against his biggest rival?
I brought Clemson is because look at all of that success. Outside of Clemson, the ACC has been very weak so even in that watered down conference Dabo loses his superstars and suddenly he is a third place team. That with all of those 7 years of CFP appearances and such. Imagine if Clemson had to play in the B1G East.
November 1st, 2021 at 8:10 PM ^
Harbaugh is our best option, unless there were an Ohio associated coach that could to take it to OSU. Fickell is the only one at the moment.
November 1st, 2021 at 10:16 PM ^
I actually really like the idea of Fickell…
he has developed one badass program, and I think he has the fire to stick it to the bucks after his departure.
kinda like that storyline
November 1st, 2021 at 11:09 PM ^
I kind of do as well, which is why if Harbaugh left or was let go (which he won’t be let go unless we implode for 4 games)…then Fickell’s path would be eerily similar to that of Bo’s….Former OSU assistant, went to a school in Cincy (just outside in Bo’s case), makes a name for himself there and then goes onto Michigan
November 2nd, 2021 at 9:06 AM ^
It's fair to assume that Fickell has improved since he left OSU, but we should at least remember that he took a very talented OSU team to a 6-6 record.
November 1st, 2021 at 8:10 PM ^
Snazzy mcshutthefuckup is the worst
All your football thoughts aren't relevant tater
November 1st, 2021 at 8:17 PM ^
Michigan has its academic challenge, worthy an example, it is also very difficult to transfer in unless you are a grad transfer. Very few five stars are sold on the academics. Look at state how many transfers this year. They were able to pick up kids from good programs that wanted more playing time.
November 1st, 2021 at 10:44 PM ^
We literally recruit the same players as MSU, OSU, Bama, etc.
That's a perceived excuse cooked up by the excuse making machine that is Michigan Football.
November 2nd, 2021 at 8:55 AM ^
Except there are players that get into those schools that don’t get in here. Trent just decommitted for academic reasons, odds are he’s going to commit to another FBS school and have no issue enrolling. That happens every year for a handful of kids, and that list includes kids that go to “those” schools.
There certainly is an academic factor, though in the grand scheme it’s a pretty insignificant factor.
November 2nd, 2021 at 9:08 AM ^
We recruit them, we just don't land them at the same rate as OSU and Alabama.
November 1st, 2021 at 8:23 PM ^
I honestly don’t know how you can look at 3-4 vs MSU, a program that was in ruins two years ago, 0-5 vs OSU, with no evidence of that ending anytime soon, & 1-4 in bowl games and just say “stay the course!”. I’ve seen all I need to see.
November 2nd, 2021 at 8:14 AM ^
One has had some comically bad luck involved, one we’re simply not at that level and won’t be, and one is an exhibition game that literally has zero meaning left. It’s pretty easy, really.
November 1st, 2021 at 8:56 PM ^
And Michigan has built in advantages that MSU lacks. And yet Harbaugh could not roll to easy wins over the Spartans the last two years when by all rights he should have. Is it too much to expect that a coach with consistently better talent on the roster defeat a hated rival 75% of the time? Is it too much to expect that a coach with a talented roster defeat a different hated rival that has a better roster at least 25% of the time? Going 9-3 and 10-2 or whatever is one issue. Woeful inability to win the games that matter most is another. Harbaugh has failed spectacularly at winning the games that matter most.
November 1st, 2021 at 9:19 PM ^
He need another 7 years for HARBAUGH to get things on track.
November 1st, 2021 at 9:34 PM ^
I don't sense the urgency in Harbaugh. He said his team faught and showed resolve on Saturday. He said these are the championship rounds, and the team needs to get back up. I'm sensing he thinks this is acceptable and part of team sports.
Harbaugh's beta tendencies has rubbed off on the team and it's apparent. There's a few Alphas on the team but for the most part a bunch of guys who don't mind losing.
November 1st, 2021 at 9:49 PM ^
My early fandom was under Bennie's and then Bump's regimes, so I am perhaps insulated against despairing over a less than stellar record against that team down South, and that team up North(west).
I don't live or die over the outcome of games played by kids younger than my theoretical grandchildren (if I had any), but I enjoy a well-played, exciting game, which this was. I wish the good guys had won, and I'm disappointed they lost. (It's a vestige of the Bo, Mo and Lloyd years that a win over MSU isn't all that satisfying, whereas a loss is more disappointing - a peculiar assymetry) But I'm not calling for anybody's head over this.
November 1st, 2021 at 10:10 PM ^
It is an absolute joke that he wasn't fired after 2020. Beating both rivals and winning the big ten was the absolute minimum he needed for redemption.
November 1st, 2021 at 10:41 PM ^
They begged the NFL to come get him with that new contract and heard crickets.
November 2nd, 2021 at 5:06 PM ^
2020, the season before where Michigan put 4/5 of its O-Line into NFL and the 5th guy was injured early on. Graduated a two-year starter at QB and had the teams best WR opted out. Then COVID wiped out all of the spring practices and modified fall training camp. I mean what could possibly go wrong that season? In 2020, if you had an experienced roster, you tended to do better than those who were breaking in new starters. Had Michigan had it's team from 2019, with Shea Patterson at QB, Michigan has a much better 2020 season. With Don Brown, they still probably get smoked by Fields and Ohio State but Michigan would have been much better. Simply bad luck that the pandemic struck as Michigan was going through a large roster transition.
November 1st, 2021 at 10:10 PM ^
2-10-1 John cooper struggled against the rival
couldn't beat ranked teams
had a dismal bowl record
mushmouth full of excuses
by that measure, Jimmy’s got 6 more years
November 1st, 2021 at 10:13 PM ^
John Cooper won three big ten championships
November 1st, 2021 at 10:44 PM ^
This is pretty simple. It all boils down to Harbaugh and this offense acting like it's 1985. Fans wonder why we're so bad in the redzone? Because for 7 games we played bully ball and ran, ran, ran, and ran some more. You're not going to beat the best teams on your schedule when the first 7 games of the season you barely attempted 20 passes. This offense under Gattis is absolutely atrocious. I feel like i'm watching live NES Tecmo Bowl, where Gattis has a 4 play playbook. Run up the middle over and over, or throw a 5 yard pass. Sprinkle in an occasional deep ball. Michigan under Harbaugh will never win anything trying to play power football, being ultra conservative....Can you imagine Harbaugh/Gattis on 4th and 1 going play-action and throwing deep like State did? That takes something those clowns don't have. What good is JJ Mcarthy in the coming years if Josh Gattis/Harbaugh are still trying to run the ball 35-50 times a game? Harbaugh needs to let "tradition" go meaning an aggressive passing attack, with a running game that compliments that. Look around the country, or teams that consistently are playoff contenders....Every single one of those teams have/had a dynamic, explosive passing attack. But we're Meeechigan, we can run up the middle on anyone 50 times a game. What a joke.
November 1st, 2021 at 10:50 PM ^
I would argue Oregon fans have almost as many issues with Cristobal that we have with Harbaugh. The “solid verbal” podcast guy seems to indicate they hate how they always play inferior teams close and sometimes drop one they shouldn’t. Oklahoma fans have to enjoy that they win the Big12 every year, but I bet even they are frustrated that they lose in the first round of playoffs yearly. Then Notre Dame benefits from being everyone’s weird but hyped non-conference opponent I think, but again, they must also get annoyed with going around 10-2 most years and not winning a championship. Georgia might still be clinching their buttholes about Bama potentially ruining their hopes at a National Championship or SEC championship. Clemson (minus this year), Bama and OSU I agree probably have no real gripes about their coaches or overall performances.
November 1st, 2021 at 11:18 PM ^
Ive said this to my friends, do you take this coach or do you move on from this theoretical coach. Career 111–43–4. Consistently in the top 5 to 10 heading into the big game. Great recruiter. Produces a Heisman winner. Is 3-8 in bowl games. 2-10 vs OSU. Do you take him and keep him or do you move on.
November 2nd, 2021 at 12:09 AM ^
You had me until you said, “James Franklin …is one of the best coaches in the country.”
November 2nd, 2021 at 1:43 AM ^
Who came up with the transfer lotto phrase? Dumb