Hagerup's Shank Theory
I'm sorry if this was already mentioned, but i've heard a lot of grumbling about our punters punts. I just assumed he was doing this to keep the ball out of Allen's hands. Granted it could have been better "coffin corner" punts but i just thought his main objective was to make sure he didn't get the ball. After reading everyones complaints, was i wrong? Was he really just shanking it? ( I do believe one of the times was a true shank)
September 12th, 2010 at 10:11 PM ^
Hagerup was struggling with the coffin-corners, IME.
Edit: Title fixed.
September 12th, 2010 at 10:06 PM ^
I think one was a true shank.
Other than that, I think it was the old coffin corner thing. The offense was doing well enough to get to about midfield. Then they'd sputter, and Hagerup had to try to aim the ball toward the corner. Obviously he has some work to do on those coffin corner kicks.
September 12th, 2010 at 10:35 PM ^
September 13th, 2010 at 6:17 AM ^
He punted a lot and all but one of them looked like a shank. I'm sorry, but even a true freshman is going to hit more than one punt solidly if he's really trying to do that. He looked disappointed because he was probably trying to kick it into the corner and they ended up being marked at the 25-30 yard line, instead of around the 5 or 10 yard line.
September 13th, 2010 at 7:50 AM ^
I definitely don't think he was trying to do coffin corner punts. Coffin corner punts are the most difficult thing for pro punters to do let alone a 18 year old true freshman punter. They just aren't good enough to execute them, you could tell after his punts he was disappointed.
You greatly underestimate a good punter's ability to put the ball in the corner. If you've ever been to an NFL practice, you'd know pro punters can put the ball anywhere on the field they want. There's no reason to think Hagerup, the best high school punter in the country last year, wasn't trying to direct his kick to the sideline.
As Magnus said he was probably mad the punt went out at the 25-30 instead of the 5-10.
September 12th, 2010 at 10:06 PM ^
Hagerup had a couple of poor punts but it's nothing to really worry about. He's a freshman playing in his first college road game in a hostile environment with a lot on the line. He will continue to get better as the season progresses, I wouldn't read into it too much.
September 12th, 2010 at 10:09 PM ^
I totally agree. I am not too worried. We did see one pretty damn good punt too from him. It was more of all the grumblings on this site (and others) that got me to start thinking about it.
September 12th, 2010 at 11:30 PM ^
How many accounts do you have on here? And replying to yourself? 1 week and 3 days for you and Bb011. Get a life.
September 12th, 2010 at 10:13 PM ^
the only solid punt he had all day was the one he kicked into the endzone for a touchback. ya, he had one 45 yarder, but it bounced forward 15 yds. his punt last week was poor too, but got a good roll. he has a lot of work to do.
September 12th, 2010 at 10:16 PM ^
He's been on campus for a month.
September 12th, 2010 at 10:36 PM ^
what part of my comment do you disagree with? that he has work to do? good god, i think even he would admit that.
September 12th, 2010 at 10:18 PM ^
Let's hope Hagerup doesn't do much punting over the next few games.
September 12th, 2010 at 10:31 PM ^
Y'all are ridiculous. He's going to be a great punter, he just hasn't had the game experience yet. You may not recall this, but even Zoltan the Inconceivable was a redshirt.
September 12th, 2010 at 10:57 PM ^
he didn't have a good day. i don't think i've read anything writing the kid off. no doubt, he's a true frosh with HUGE upside. and like a lot of our players, he's being thrust into the lineup perhaps a year or two early.
if he averages only 35 yds a punt for the year, with no blocks and no TDs, i will be satisfied.
September 12th, 2010 at 11:37 PM ^
if he averages only 35 yds a punt for the year, with no blocks and no TDs, i will be satisfied.
If he doesn't try a fake punt against Sparty on our own 30 yard line(-ish), I will be satisfied.
September 12th, 2010 at 11:34 PM ^
September 12th, 2010 at 10:50 PM ^
The ND message board was complaining about their punter, but one guy said he wouldn't trade for ours. Anyone out there making that trade from Michigan's side?
Seeing no hands up, we move on. I expect he'll be better next week and All Big-Ten and better before moving to the NFL.
Let's have more reasonable complaints like why wasn't Brian Kelly miked up.
September 12th, 2010 at 11:00 PM ^
FACT: Freshman in first road game, hostile enviornment. Nervous. He will get better.
Bigger question: will Gibbons?
September 13th, 2010 at 6:15 AM ^
First, you present it as FACT that Hagerup will get better because he's only a freshman...
...and then you QUESTION whether Gibbons will get better, even though it was his first road game, too?
Yeah, that seems logical...
September 12th, 2010 at 11:10 PM ^
I've convinced myself that he was punting away from Allen. Yeah, that's the ticket.
September 13th, 2010 at 12:00 AM ^
He may have been trying to punt to the sideline and just kept missing it - probably hasn't done much directional punting - sure he will calm down - first road game jitters. He only punted once against UConn
September 13th, 2010 at 12:39 AM ^
Hagerup isn't the first true freshman to gag on his second collegiate game, especially in a hallowed shrine like Notre Dame Stadium.
I am willing to concede to the naysayers and fans of other teams that he choked on Saturday. But he will grow through it and have a great career at Michigan. Even his, uh, lateral kicks went for positive yardage. Most of all, his team came out with a hard fought victory, and he was a very important part of that team.
Besides, even the best athletes have choked at least once in their careers. It's not choking that defines one's career; it's how one reacts and grows afterwards.
September 13th, 2010 at 8:00 AM ^
"Choked" isn't a word I would use to describe his performance. For me, choking is when someone who should be able to get something done fails to do so because they lapse in the mental aspects of what they're doing.
I thought Hagerup did fine with regard to what could be reasonably expected of him from a mental standpoint right there and then. Better execution will follow once he is comfortable in those situations, knowing what to focus on.
September 13th, 2010 at 7:10 AM ^
just to prevent people from having expectations about performance that are simply unrealistic. Both Hagerup and Gibbons were kicking in their first road game in a tremendously pressure-filled environment knowing that the eyeballs of millions are scrutinizing their performance. It's possible that both will be flops, and equally possible that both will be All-Americans by the time they graduate. We just have to let things develop as fans.
September 13th, 2010 at 7:35 AM ^
I think we should make freshman ineligible again
Yes. Most true freshmen are simply not ready to play. But then we'd have to go back up to 100+ scholarships again.
September 13th, 2010 at 8:13 AM ^
Most true freshmen are simply not ready to play.
Absolutely, but all of the attention given recruiting has created pretty wide expectations that they will come in and be able to be equivalent of a 3d or 4th year player, and that they are "flops" if they haven't contributed by early in their sophomore year or if they're thrown into duty early and can't keep up.
September 13th, 2010 at 8:38 AM ^
Bo would tell anyone who would listen that's what should be done.
September 13th, 2010 at 11:57 AM ^
we wouldn't even be able to field a defense then...
September 13th, 2010 at 7:43 AM ^
I don't think you could ask for a better experience in terms of "teaching moments." He attempted a number of difficult punts (regardless of whether they were directional -- I agree with Magnus that they were -- they were nonetheless something other than kick-it-as-high-and-as-far-as-you-can) in an atmosphere that approximates what it is going to be like in Columbus this year.
The fact is he handled the ball well -- he didn't drop it, and he got the punts off. That's step one in my book.
September 13th, 2010 at 8:33 AM ^
He definitely wasn't shanking his punts on purpose. Even RR admitted he didn't punt well but he wasn't worried about Hagerup. I'm sure he was nervous playing in his first away game in ND stadium. Who wouldn't be? RR however didn't give Gibbons the same vote of confidence.
September 13th, 2010 at 9:21 AM ^
His Barwis legs have yet to fully develop. Give that biped a little time, and soon he'll have the calfs of a young Adonis.
September 13th, 2010 at 9:55 AM ^
but I noticed this in the fall scrimmage: he seems a little uncomfortable with those blockers directly in front of him. He looks like he's short-legging his kicks, because he's worried about getting it off before they get knocked back into him (or kicking it right into their backsides). Move those guys up a yard, he doesn't look like he can step into it
In high school he was alone back there, really moved into his kicks
September 13th, 2010 at 11:19 AM ^
"I know nothing about which I'm going to speak..."
Most of you should have employed the same header . . . then left it at there.
I won't go into all my bona fides, but trust me that I know a lot about the specialists' portion of football, and I also have some direct contacts on the UM Coaching staff. With that background, here's what I think about Will Hagerup's performance in the first two games.
First, if you've watched him in pregame and halftime punting, you will see that he is an extraordinarily gifted punter. Watch how the ball jumps off his foot faster than other punters and, thus, goes higher and farther. Before the UConn game, he was punting beautiful punts, with probably 5 seconds of hang time, that were travelling well over 55 yards (sometimes 70 or more yards) from the line of scrimmage. You can't coach that -- that is shear ability. You CAN coach proper techniques, and he'd be considered very very solid even if he were a senior. That fact that he is punting like this already is remarkable, and I haven't ever seen a guy this young punt this well, with technique this strong. Assuming he stays healthy and keeps working at improving and becoming more consistent, I will be shocked if he isn't the first punter drafted in his class or if he doesn't have a long and profitable NFL career. He is that good.
Turning to his game performance, in the UConn game, he intentionally punted a rugby-style punt. For those of you complaining about that, do you even understand what that is? It is (1) a design punt, (2) kicked low and mostly end over end, (3) that is intentionally kicked away from coverage, and (4) that properly is not fielded and rolls forward to a dead ball. Based on those criteria, what didn't he accomplish? The air time is not an issue on these punts. It isn't supposed to look like what he was doing in warmups. It was 100% efficient for how it's designed. I am very impressed that a true freshman even knows how to produce that kind of a punt, since it is an entirely different technique from a regular punt.
This brings me to the ND game. As RR said, I'm sure Will is more disappointed than anyone at some (not all, by any means) of his punts. He did have a true near whiff from our half of the field and a couple others that weren't good (even though none were returnable). But, you need to look at things other than his average to figure out how he really did. IIRC that he missed one out of bounds on a short field (the spiral that went into the third row). That was actually well-executed, except for the fact that it was about 10 yards to the right of where he wanted it. Also, I think it followed a very good 46-47 yarder, that took two hops into the EZ (and that should have been covered inside the 5YL). So, he probably got some flack after the first one for getting a TB, and he overcompensated on the next one.
In all honesty, despite what some of you say, there are very few college punters who are proficient at angle punts. That is one of the biggest gripe NFL Scouts have about new punters and why a guy like Matt Turk and Brad Maynard hang around for 15 years even though their legs aren’t’ nearly as big as new guys. I’m a little surprised that they even tried that kind of a punt with a true freshman, but it indicates RR has a lot of confidence in him.
Even though this wasn't a good stats game, he did come through in the 4th Q when it really mattered. He had at least two that |I recall that were downed inside the 15 (or maybe even 10) and one for sure inside the 10. Those were probably only 30 yard punts (which hurts his average) but they were exactly what was called for.
If this was Will's worst day ever -- and it might be in view of the fact it's his first away game (AT ND!) with wet footballs that don't travel as far even if they are struck cleanly -- then I am very happy about our punting the next four years. The kid's a stud and will only get better. |I expect some breakout punts the next two weeks. Those games should have a much higher comfort level for hm.