were there too many rascals?
Here's the link and holy hell does it look like Fitz is toast.
Hey OP, if you open the little chain icon to the right of the italics icon and paste your URL in there your link becomes live.
The board would be so much worse without you patrolling it.
Patrolling it? I made no negative comment, I just told him how to do it.
It's a pain and most people screw it up, so much so that the second pinned thread on the Board when you open it up on your phone is "Meta: how to post a link in the OP".
Diaz's comments, wow.
“The fact that I’m still going to a therapist and talking about these things after more than 10 years is indicative of the mental health state I was left in,” Diaz said. “I didn’t even watch a football game again for almost five years after I left Northwestern. It was that negative of an experience for me that I didn’t want anything to do with the sport.”
People have grumbled that the accusers were all speaking anonymously. Now there's a guy coming on the record. I can't imagine at this point Fitzgerald survives.
Nah, Fitz... he gone
Pat Fitzgerald, Alabama defensive coordinator.
Analyst.
The team's performance last few seasons will save his job..oh wait...never mind he gone
Some of my experience at NU:
I’ve mentioned on here (sorry if you all know, just in case not) that I played a varsity sport at NU in the early 2000s and lived with football players.
I too sought a bit of therapy in an effort to better cope with my coaches. I too, as a freshman, had fully naked upperclassman rub their genitals and anuses on me (over my clothes) in front of the entire team and coaching staff (yes all coaches present). In the locker room, where our coaches almost never were (can only think of one time they ever entered in 5 years besides recruiting) players performed “dick tricks” at us without our consent and one time as a freshman I was pressured by the juniors and seniors to perform one for all of them.
I know that my coach made multiple racist jokes to the black players on our team. One such joke about bananas prompted the kids parents to meet with our coach and the AD.
Our assistant coach got defensive about another school’s coach getting fired for using the N word into a hot mic on ESPN. He excused the coach for using the word and said it was ESPN’s fault for having the hot mic then making it a story.
The difference between our coaches and program and Fitz and his program seemingly could not have been more different. I was shocked at the allegations but now that I’ve read up I realize it’s the same as what I experienced and probably worse.
For some context, back in my time nobody would have called what happened to me sexual assault or anything like that. It didn’t occur to me to think of it that way until this week. Granted. I don’t think about those times ever and I’ve rarely been back to NU since I left
Interesting (and sorry you had to go through that, ugh).
This fits my suspicion that this kind of hazing probably has been going on a really long time at NU. It wouldn’t shock me if Fitz himself experienced it as a player and figured it was “tradition”.
Of course, that’s not a defense of Fitz as he should have had the good sense to put a stop to it. (And if he had, other NU sports may have followed his lead.)
What sport?
If he wanted to be specific he would have.
There is no harm in asking. He mentioned talking about it before and I assume he may have mentioned it in the past in a previous thread.
Dang man! What the fuck is wrong with people where they think this kind of shit is funny? And why do players want to see teammates doing "dick tricks"? I don't want to see my teammate's junk.
The Lions making Hutchinson get up and sing/dance in front of the full team meeting is the kind of stuff that is safe and great for bonding. Not this NU level shit with coaches in the know. I would never want my son to have to deal with that kind of shit.
Wow. May I say on all of our behalf: Fuck those people and I'm sorry that you had to go through that. I'm never going to look at NW the same way again.
That said, I'm gonna stick my neck out and suggest that this stuff just isn't that uncommon. From high school into college. A lot of young men carry the stigma into adulthood.
MGloBules,
I think you are accurate that this kind of sexualized hazing is pretty wide spread. It’s one of the biggest reasons I’m a fierce advocate for the transfer portal. If kids can just leave it gives them an out from toxic teams.
For those of you who expressed support, thank you. That felt nicer to hear than I expected.
My take coming in to college was, “I don’t want to see guys naked and I don’t want to come in contact with any naked guys.” Even as the pressure (and genitals) were being applied I couldn’t understand why anyone would want to do this. I still don’t get it. I’m glad it ended (at least on my team) with my class and the class after us.
one last thing to mention, after everything else I’ve said I haven’t even mentioned the hazing ritual called, “Freshman Cock Day”
the juniors and seniors told the freshman that one day after practice we would have to lineup naked in the locker room and they would put down ink pads in front of us. We were told we would then have to press our cocks into the pads and stamp them onto pieces of paper. Then we were told we had to write our name on each of the papers. They would be posted throughout campus and we would have to hustle to find them and take them down, or, leave them up if we were proud of them.
Here’s the thing: the hazing was enduring being threatened with this. It never actually happened. They once made us wait in the locker room after practice thinking they were getting the ink and paper but actually the whole team left and wanted to see how long we would wait. They basically spent a trimester telling us how their own freshman cock days went, giving us unsolicited tips like “how much chub to look big but not too much that you get a boner in front of the team” and other ways to be shitty.
I’m so sorry you had to go through that. Thank you for sharing it here; the details help many of us to more fully understand what hazing actually involves.
Sorry you had to go through that and that recent events are forcing you to relive it. I appreciate you willingness to be open about your experiences as I think it helps us all better understand the situation at NU today.
Thanks Elm.
Hold up. All that happened to you and you WEREN'T on the football team? So there was another team/coach that was OK with this?
I'm so sorry this happened to you. Adultier adults should have protected you from what is clearly a systemic problem at NU. I'm disgusted on your behalf and hope you are able to heal.
Oh boy is The Daily Northwestern staff on a roll--as a highly acclaimed J-school they are proving their mettle and going for the throat. Hard to see how Fitz survives despite his history there, although given that I live in Iowa City and watched Kirk Ferentz all but brush off the more widespread allegations of racism within his program, I wouldn't be shocked if Fitz hangs on.
Just like the well known Captain Ramius quote, I'd say Fitz' chances are 1 in 3.
The question is: "who is Fitz's fall guy?" Ferentz had one, Chris Carter always has one - does Fitz?
If so (and its even remotely plausible), then maybe he survives. If not, then he is toast.
The problem is that the allegations (whether hazing or racism) now go all the way from the beginning of his tenure to 2023. Even if one guy in the program were somehow responsible for all the bad stuff, he still would look bad for keeping him around. (Case in point: Urban Meyer protecting Zach Smith.)
Regarding the possibility of Fitz surviving, I think the potential difference here is that Northwestern is widely considered one of the best universities in the country. Especially one of the best private schools that are not in the Ivy League. They've got a much bigger reputation to worry about than just that of their football program, and when you think about it in that way, they have a lot more to lose than just football donations and recruits.
That's not to say that Iowa is a bad school. But I think with Northwestern, its got to be different.
I think prestige has less to do with it than the fact that football is just more important to Iowa. They sell out the stadium.
Also, it’s really clear Fitz is responsible for a garbage culture. With Iowa, if I remember correctly, the problem was blamed on an S&C coach.
Careful....the emerging allegations against the NW program/coaching staff strongly suggest a pervasive problem but even that's not the same as it being really clear there is a garbage culture. I'm not defending NW at all, just emphasizing that for the time being we have several players/former players saying there is a problem. This isn't proof.
As for Iowa, Chris Doyle was in fact blamed (and dismissed), but there is no question that it's Kirk Ferentz' program. He should have been held responsible but was somehow able to make it look like he was taking the situation seriously without really changing much of anything. (He formed a so-called diversity advisory committee for a little while and then disbanded it.)
I agree with you that football is a bigger deal at Iowa than at NW; moreover, despite his flaws Ferentz is the rare coach who can win here and that is an incredibly valuable skill in the eyes of the University. Fitz may be the winningest coach in NW history but they are never going to have truly sustained success and they know it.
They have bigger fish to fry, namely the academic rep that another commenter referred to, so I suspect that although they want to keep Fitz, at some point soon the allegations will reach a tipping point in favor of his dismissal.
Northwestern is trying to renovate Ryan Field at a massive cost (something like $800 million) so I don’t know that I’d say football doesn’t matter that much to them. If anything, keeping an increasingly radioactive Fitz may complicate these efforts.
Ferentz just seems to be a Teflon guy who has managed to stay above the fray in the public eye (his S&C coach wasn’t so lucky). Maybe Iowa’s AD was more skilled at controlling the narrative to shift the story away from Ferentz.
I have a different take: I think NW is only replacing their stadium bc of the largesse of one massively wealthy donor (Ryan). Without him they would probably make due with what they have.
As for Iowa, Kirk isn't teflon, he's just successful over a very long period of time and the AD (outgoing jock sniffer Gary Barta) takes his cues from Ferentz.
The racism allegations were big news here when the story first broke but after not too long it fizzled and then ultimately disintegrated. Ferentz made that happen and was enabled by everyone around him because his value to the program and the University has reached epic (some might say dangerous) levels.
The importance of the stadium extends beyond football; it's also being sold as a venue for other events. I think that's why they're willing to put so much money into it. NW Football is a big fun Saturday event but it's not like a Michigan game and I don't think it yields the kind of revenue that $800 million would warrant.
1 in 3?
I’d say his chances are 0 in 3.
To be honest. 100% honest. I’ve seen and experienced worse from “progressive” whites at michigan.
Doesn’t excuse Fitz, but this is way more common than most even think
It really is. Football, perhaps more than any other sport (except maybe hockey, and as we've discovered, there have been lots of problems there as well), seems to depend on a "macho" culture, which — especially combined with young men and little oversight — all-too-often seems to involve sexual harassment or mockery.
And, as we experienced at Michigan, often, a failure of those in charge to fully appreciate the significance of what was happening and the harm it was causing.
I hope Harbaugh and Manuel use this as an opportunity to fully review the Michigan football program (and athletic department as a whole) and spread the word in no uncertain terms that this will not and can not be tolerated.
I never, ever comment on this subject but I feel compelled to here. The hazing that I endured as part of a varsity team at Michigan was absolutely harmless. We even had combined hazing sessions with two other teams and nothing even remotely resembling what the hell is allegedly going on at NW, happened.
Our hazing consisted of the following:
- Painting 'The Rock' at Washtenaw and Hill with our shirts off and drunk AF while singing Hail to the Victors the entire time
- Getting dropped in a forest wearing nothing but our shorts, blindfolded, and having to walk back to campus
- Wearing a sunny side up egg on our head for a party and you couldn't let it fall off or you had to do 500 push ups. Which was impossible because you had to dance with someone.
In my years at Michigan I never heard, read, or witnessed anything like what was described in that article or in the past articles I've read about some Michigan teams. Looking back, there was nothing macho or necessarily humiliating about it, it was dumb fun, we were freshman. I'm pretty sure no one needed therapy. Maybe we were just lucky. What happened?
- Getting dropped in a forest wearing nothing but our shorts, blindfolded, and having to walk back to campus
What was the temperature and did they make you drink before dropping you off in the forest? I know of a situation at another school where this turned really bad. They had to drink almost a fifth and it was January though.
It was early September and the weather was amazing. We did not drink beforehand.
Would you please explain what a "progressive" white is and why it is relevant to this conversation? I had not read any comments classifying people, but this is a massive thread and I may have missed the one you're replying to. Thanks.
All good. I mention them (progressive whites) because they are typically framed as the ones as stalwarts of justice and inclusivity. However, I have seen them as complicit and active as anyone else when it comes to racism and racist acts here.
They're relevant to this conversation because it shows how widespread and embedded it is. They're the ones decrying racism the loudest here use DEI, but both a sword and a shield. I think it's more part of academic institutional culture rather than a few teams or bad actors.
Taking it a step further, preacher mike has been hammering on 'middle-class' and 'wealthy' Black applicants in admissions on the other thread. I think this Northwestern issue specifically touches on the racial issues. Black and brown students, regardless of family financial situations deal with this.
Progressives in power on campuses pushing for reform offer no refuge and are even worse than almost any other group with "micro-aggressions". They're the ones highlighting how everyone else is racist. On balance, they're no better. If they're no better, then who is decent and willing to end this stuff?
Part of it is that our culture has simply become obsessed with race. Almost more so than “racism,” we are being divided by insatiable race consciousness to the point that it is actually the problem as opposed to a solution.
I appreciate your response. It would require a longer conversation than I am willing to commit to on a message board, and questions I frankly would not ask someone I do not know anything about for risk of unintentionally causing more harm, to gain an adequate understanding. I'll just say I'm sorry you experienced what you did, regardless of the source. And, like you, I hope we can continue to grow in our approach in developing systems and behaviors that promote unity, acceptance and well being.
Thanks!
I haven't been to Ryan Field in 10 years or so, but has it always looked like that photo at the top of the article? It looks like something you would see at Epcot.
I think it's looked that way for a long time. Picture looks a little goofy to me, I think the Northwestern sign is a small one on the opposite of the field, but in the picture looks deceptively like a huge sign hanging haphazardly off the side of the upper tier... Is the sign what raised your comment?
That sign is definitely a huge part of it, though that structure in the background that says "Ryan Field" is giving me Disney World Showcase vibes as well.
Why am I not surprised? I like the use of the term of "The Wildcat Way" as a cover for conformance to a model of appearance and conduct designed to have the greatest appeal to NW's predominately white alumni. I am most interested to hear what noted NW graduate Michael Wilbon has to say about this.
yea. telling people to cut their hair (having a standard appearance as you represent the university) for isn’t a big deal to me.
telling ONLY the minority players to do it is seriously jacked up. rules apply to everyone, or no one
And then...
Both Diaz and the second anonymous player detailed an instance in which a former offensive line coach joked by asking Diaz how to clean a dirty room. The coach then made a racist joke about how Diaz’s family must know how to clean houses, both former players said.
Diaz said he heard the same coach tell a Black teammate to stop wearing certain hats because he “wasn’t in the hood anymore,” before calling the way he walked a “gangster walk.”
He also said he once heard a player tell another Black teammate to show him “how monkeys act.”
Holy shit that is fucked up.
Yeah, this was the part that made the puke flow. WTF?
That’s BS - this isn’t the military and that stance alone is discriminatory. What if you are from a culture where you don’t cut your hair or shave your beard (e.g. Sikh, Muslim, Rasta, certain Polynesian cultures and dozens more)?
I guess all those folks should just find another school and that’s their freedom of choice