Fuller as only "QB" in this recruiting class?
So it seems that the coaching staff is pretty set on taking a QB in this class. To be honest, I'd be pretty bummed if we gave up one of the few precious remaining spots in this class to a "meh" QB just to have a back-up insurance policy.
That being the case, the question arises: Do you guys think that if Devin Fuller ended up committing that the coaches would be content to have him as the only "QB" for the class, even though he'd probably end up playing some other position down the line? It seems like the perfect win-win. Fuller gets playing time regardless, the team has the QB insurance policy, and the roster spot is put to great use.
Granted, getting Fuller is the hard part here, but do you think this is a possibility?
It's a good idea. If we have solid qb options down the line, we can use Fuller's athleticism elsewhere for some versitality.
If not QB can we make him a RB or CB/DB? But I would love to see him on the offensive side.
As has been repeated ad nauseum on this board if you remember watching Nick Sheridan play a "back-up insurance policy" can be incredibly important not just for the team but for its fans' mental and physical health. That said, my guess would be they want someone like Mauk who's solely a QB, taking people in the kind of slash role that Fuller would occupy is probably a relic of the RR days. Just a guess.
A 3-star QB is much better than your typical walk-on. QB is the most important position on the team. You can't afford to allow the possiblity, however slim, of having to turn to, say, Jack Kennedy (no offense to the president).
I'd take Fuller at QB over a middling 3-star any day. That said, Mauk isn't a middling 3-star, so I'd take Mauk over Fuller. However, I think Mauk is headed to ND.
is even really recruiting Mauk anymore.
Really? I've heard (from Rivals and elswhere) that it seems he is destined for ND.
Irish has been the most consistently accurate and (relatively) unbiased Notre Dame fan, so I normally take him at his word. And he said that it's Kiel or bust for ND, that they pretty much have enough depth at the moment and that Mauk's not a priority anymore.
Does that mean we have a decent shot with Mauk then? Also, is Kiel considering ND? I thought it was a race between Oklahoma, Missouri, and Alabama, with Indiana possibly sneaking in there. Oklahoma being the favorite.
I wouldn't trust any rumors you hear about Kiel. Although I personally expect him to go to Oklahoma or Alabama, nothing would surprise me. There have been so many rumors, started by so many people with no knowledge of the situation that I don't know what to trust anymore. *Head Explodes*
But yes, we have a very good shot with Mauk. It's more or less between us and Mizzou. I think we have the edge, but obviously both teams are waiting for Kiel's decision as well.
no knock on either Kennedy or any 2012 qb prospects I don't think in a game situation that a true freshman low 3 star backup "project" type qb will be any improvement over 2 RSJunior walkons with 3 years in the program already. While a project-backup qb may ultimately have a slightly higher cieling than a walkon, for 2011 one would make no real difference in talent, and would be a step back in other areas if they hadto suddenly play the 4th quarter of a big game. Even top freshman qbs give me nightmares at times. It took me till his senior year before I'd stop wincing every time Henne would throw the ball because of his multitude of freshman/sophomore blunders. I had to tell myself that he isn't "that kid" anymore. The only way I would want one of our last scholarships going to a qb is if he were a potential starter, and not just a 4th body with a scholarship.
As a consensus top 50 player, I'm pretty sure Fuller has more athletic tools at his disposal than Sheridan did. Just a hunch.
I think that's a pretty safe guess. And if everything does work out well between denard devin bellomy and morris we would be better off with fuller who can step in day one and contribute at another position. But, if things don't work out and we need qb play from whomever we recruit this year, and fuller's been working at another position he's no longer an insurance policy at QB. Which is why if I had to guess, whomever we take is going to be someone who's sticking at QB. Again, I have no sources, it's just a guess.
I want a QB who fits this system, i.e.: not Fuller.
We have seen the results of QBs who do not fit the system.
we don't even know what our system is yet...I have a pretty strong inkling if denard tears up the bigten the next 2 years and devin does the same borges may fall in love with his manball/spread hybrid. Just look at the school down south, ever since Troy Smith walked all over the bigten they been throwing dual threat qbs into a proish type system with alot of sucess
I agree completely. We don't know the system yet. I'm anxious to read the Maple St. Press, Brian Cook edited, UM pre-season extravaganza that apparently tackles this topic:
Chris Brown of Smart Football attempts to answer the looming offseason question "Al Borges + Denard Robinson == ???" Article is packed with illuminating graphs and some surprising revelations about Manball, or the lack thereof, in Borges's most recent offense.
I guess I'll have to get out to Krogers.
I agree. To expand further upon this, it is much easier to use a mobile quarterback in a pro-ish system, as opposed to a statue in an RR type of spread (as we saw in 2008). Daryl Clark made this apparent at Penn State. Having a quarterback that can run simply gives one more dimension that the defense must worry about.
is viable in the B10 (Mike Vick does it in the NFL, right?). But Smith wasn't really a huge threat running (not like Denard or Pryor, anyway). Michigan fans remember him differently than most, I think, because he killed us. But he had only had approx 1,200 yards rushing in three years and averaged jsut 4.2 ypg. Pretty pedestrian.
He was, however, incredibly efficient throwing the ball. Ridiculous TD to interception ratio.
It's not as hard for a scrambling/running QB to fit into a system that calls for a pocket passer as it is for a statue to run the spread. You can coach pocket awareness and mold an athletic guy into a better passer, but you can't make a guy significantly faster.
Except that the really great passing QBs see the field better than you can teach.
Also, tsio had a guy who wasn't fast but was smart and could take advantage of openings to run. Krenzel won an NC.
Yes, but statues don't have a monopoly on being really great passers. Mobile QBs can be that way too. Plus, one has to find a really great QB, which is quite difficult.
That is difficult no matter what style you play.
But a dual threat QB only gives you an advantage if you are willing to run your QB. If your QB only either passes or hands off, just a little scrambling ability (like Krenzel) is all you need.
We are probably going to ru n Denard because:
1) Denard is such a great runner
2) because we don't have a great RB
3) because we don't have a QB who suits the west coast offense
It'll probably work because Denard is a special athlete until Denard gets hurt.
A west coast QB with premier passing skills and a top flight RB is better combination if you are going to run the west coast offense.
We saw last year what can happen if a DC is not comfortable with the system. I want Borges to be coaching in his comfort zone.
Well, I think it's been established that Borges's offense at SDSU wasn't a strict west coast system, and he would be an idiot to expect to come and implement a west coast system right away. He's going to combine Borges's knowledge and Denard's skills and make a kind of hybrid-style offense that uses the best of both worlds, ideally.
And if I had to choose between the two, I would rather have Denard being in his comfort zone, not Borges. The old veteran coach can adapt better than the young college kid.
Fair enough, Waggles, but we aren't talking about how to use Denard, we are talking about what kind of system to play in the future.
If we were to recruit Fuller as a QB, we would have the same situation going foward. If that is what Hoke and Borges want to do, it is their call. But, it won't be the west coast offense.
I suspect that many of those who would like us to recruit a QB like Fuller would like us to retain a good amount of spread/option sets going forward, Justin.
Me? I would like us to commit totally to a west coast offense. RR understood that a hybrid isn't what you want. That is why RR implemented the spread immediately.
I think that we could reach the heights by just becoming the best at one system or another.
Of course, I think we shouldn't lose many recruiting battles with Oklahoma. I think we have a better school, better tradition and better place to live. But, I think we need to decide who we are.
Only then can we sell those recruits who fit our system on choosing us over "them".
So I am against a hybrid once Denard moves on. I want us to have a clear definition of how we play football.
I think we would have been a hybrid with Mallett because of talent (ah, italics) just like we are going to be a hybrid with Denard,be cause of talent.
I think running multiple sets comes with a cost. It isn't just adding another dimension. And it is a cost that I don't want to pay.
I don't want us to be a jack-of-all sets team. I want us to be a master of one. I think that gives you the best chance to have a championship team. I think it also gives you the best chance to sustain that success year-to-year. It does so by allowing you to recruit to type and thereby making yourself the place players of that type want to go to.
I want us to define ourselves so players who want to play our style choose us instead of our always having to sell ourselves to them.
Anything can work. The question is: What is the best way to go about it?
Looking at it from the perspective of what I would do if I were running the football program: I would want a long string of QBs cut out of the same cloth. Kiel, Morris, etc. The best one plays. If that one goes down, the 2nd stringer can step in and the offense doesn't miss a beat.
If Kiel were your starter and Fuller the backup, if Kiel went down, the offense would have a huge adjustment to make. I do not consider that to be ideal.
Steve Young who was one of the QBs to define "the west coast offence" showed that a shifty QB with a good arm is very much an asset. while he didn't put up denard or vick type rushing numbers 500 yards a year was aboutt he average.
Yep, but Young had premier passing skills and some ability to run. It wasn't a trade off like I am afraid it would be with Fuller.
Young's predecessor couldn't run though and defined the west coast offense QB position. Montana won 4 SBs.
There was a user on the Scout boards who talked to one of the players, and the anonymous player reportedly said that people are going to be blown away by the offense this year, that they're going to spread the formation with 4-5 WRs, and implement at type of west-coast offense reminiscient of what the Eagles did with Vick this past year. Could be just one facet of their gameplan, I dunno. But if that's the case, Fuller's more likely to fit into that then a MANBALL offense.
He also loves Denard, just a little FWIW
yeah I have a strong feeling we won't see our true offence till ND. if borges can get away with it he will use the same playbook he had for the spring game against western I have a feeling. ND on paper should be able to beat us but if there not sure what we are going to send at them they will be unsure how to prepare which may give us the advantage we need.
And if we have to pull out all the stops for Western...well then it'll be a long season.
I don't think Western will be a problem, but I have flashbacks to Toledo in 08 when saying that......
I'd love Fuller. The QB that we get now seems to be just kind of an insurance policy, in case people get hurt or Morris doesn't pan out. So we would have a great athlete on the field in Fuller, and if we need another QB, he is actually a very good thrower.
I feel like his recruitment will come down to how he wants to be used and how we want to use him.
Side question because I don't know, does anyone know what other position Fuller would play? Is it like a WR/KR kind of role, or a S/CB kind of role?
Fuller could be a variety of positions. Several schools want him as a corner, others as a safety, others as a WR, others as a RB, others as a QB. To be honest, whatever coach gets him will likely not know what their plan of action for him is, either, at least for a while.
Thanks, DG. Do you know what we're primarily recruiting him as? Is it like a QB role where he could also play a variety of CB, WR, S, and wherever he fits?
Coach Mallory is recruiting him and has told Devin they see him as an ATH, most likely as a DB. But that him trying out for QB is not out of the question whatsoever.He wants to have a shot at playing QB, but will choose his school based on other factors as well (education, comfort, etc.)
As an athlete leaning towards the defensive backfield.
Michigan wants Fuller on defense, ideally.
I think I'd give Fuller a Charles Woodson pitch. Given his superb athletic skill-set, he can be molded into a shut-down corner, a more durable position and one that would be more likely to get him to the NFL. Plus, he can become a playmaker on offense if need be.
Unless we can get a top 10 QB I say we wait until the end of the season and ask Denard whether or not he's going pro. Then ask Devin if he's staying. Assess Belomy's progress. Denard and Devin staying, plus a capable Bellomy at the end of the season would lead me to believe the staff will not take mediocre QB just for insurance sake.
Unless Denard switches to another position mid-year...I really don't think he's going to go pro any time soon.
FWIW, a PSU user at 247 sports commented like a week ago that his insider thinks that we have a really good shot as long as Fuller visits.