Explain Sparty hate to a puzzled outsider

Submitted by MonkeyMan on

First off- I come in peace

Second, I come in peace (in case you missed the first sentence)

OK

I have lived in Columbus Ohio all my life since 1959. I heard "Go Bucks!" more often than "Good Morning!" (BTW we did have mornings there). So I sort of became a UM fan out of rebellion. I "get" the OSU vs UM hate- both teams have been dominant a long time and knocked each other out of fun stuff a lot.

I do not have as good a sense for what goes on inside Michigan (the State). I sense, from reading these boards, that most of you guys may actually hate MSU more than OSU (I scientifically counted things like "Fuck Sparty!"). I understand CFB state rivalry, but not this one so much. 

There are reasons this dislike should NOT be so intense:

1. UM has owned Sparty forever in terms of wins and losses- despite recent losses

2. I would assume there are many more UM fans in the State of Michigan than Sparty fans due to MSU's long track record of mediocrity- so you should outnumber Sparty fans quite a bit and feel like neighbors/coworkers are on your side

3. MSU has a high percentage of players who are from Michigan and that should give anybody from Michigan a sense of satisfaction when they achieve

 

So what is it? Is it the recent losses only? Was it this intense 15 years ago? Is it the coach? Would a nice guy coach end this dislike? Is it the fans? Are they really different than other fans? Does the fact that ANY team from Michigan is in the playoffs mean nothing?

I believe JH will have us back in the playoffs sooner than later and don't really think about MSU much. So, as an outsider to the state of Michigan, I am curious as to what has happened to make this hate so intense. I understand OSU vs. UM but don't understand why MSU angers so many more given the 3 items I outlined above. What am I missing as an outsider to the state?

thanks ( and I promise not to bring the subject up again)

Go Blue!

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SpikeFan2016

December 6th, 2015 at 12:21 PM ^

You're right, but wrong. 

 

Lansing as a city sits directly on the intersection of three counties, it's not in the middle of Ingham county like Ann Arbor is to Washtenaw. 

 

Half of the city of Lansing is in Eaton County and the suburbs directly north of the city are in Clinton County. A small section of East Lansing mailing addresses are also in Clinton county too.

Eaton + Clinton + Ingham (this is considered the Lansing metro) is still greater than Washtenaw. As of 2010, the Ann Arbor metro had 344,791 residents (all of which are in Washtenaw county), while the Lansing metro had 464,036 residents (280,895 in Ingham, 107,759 in Eaton and 75,382 in Clinton). The gap has closed by a few thousand since 2010 due to respective growth rates, but they still have over 100,000 more people as a metro area. 

 

However, Washtenaw has had the highest growth in Michigan in the last decade

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pharker

December 6th, 2015 at 11:41 AM ^

I was going to post countering your initial assumption #2 that Michigan fans outnumber Michigan State fans. State fans like to promote the idea of "Walmart Wolverines", but there are plenty of State fans (like there *are* plenty of Ohio State and Michigan fans) without a connection to the school. State's recent successes have enlarged these numbers.

More importantly, Michigan State's undergraduate enrollment is almost 50% larger than Michigan's (ca. 39k last year to ca. 27k at Michigan) and has been for quite some time. I'm going to make the generally accepted assumption here that people are most committed to their undergraduate institution. Combine those numbers over any length of time with the number of Michigan students vs. MSU students who come from out-of-state and who land jobs out-of-state, and the numbers balance within state can change pretty quickly. 

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Brodie

December 6th, 2015 at 11:53 AM ^

Correct. As the OP himself should understand better than anyone, there are always people who choose the other side of a rivalry without great reasons. The truth is there are a lot of people in the state of Michigan who really dislike Michigan football, Michigan fans and even Michigan as an institution (there's a perception in certain quarters that the relentless focus on being elite doesn't actually serve the state well; that while Michigan is focused on turning East Coast prep school kids into wealthy East Coast success stories, the state's other schools are actually doing the job of providing teachers, engineers and doctors for the state itself). This menatlity leads to adopting State. When I tell people I went to Michigan in normal conversation, they often put on this sarcastic "la-di-da" tone about it, even if it is literally just a conversation about where we went to school, that's why 40% of the population go in for an inferior football school.

I will certainly co-sign the percpetion that MSU alumni tend to be better represented in places in the state where you find more college graduates, suggesting that they tend to stick around more. 

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Waldorf Wolverine

December 6th, 2015 at 12:12 PM ^

Heh, my boyfriend gets that "la-di-da" attitude from his own mom (a Sparty). She asked me once if his arrogance didn't bother me. I was like, "What arrogance?" We only hear from them during games if Michigan is losing, not when MSU is winning or losing. It's sad that their defining characteristic is anti-UM, not pro-MSU.

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nerv

December 6th, 2015 at 1:09 PM ^

This right here. Michigan State fans seems to enjoy failures from UM as much or more than their own successes. When something goes wrong for UM the amount of ridiculous statements from Sparties is overwhelming. The amount of hubris and chest beating Michigan located UM fans had to deal with for weeks after the botched punt was mind numbing.

There was a meme being passed around facebook just before the UM/MSU game this year that said something along the lines of "Michigan State fan base: Established in 2008" They love to be insufferable with their ultra clever walmart Wolverine claims.. but most of their "fans" preferred some other team or program a decade ago. 

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evenyoubrutus

December 6th, 2015 at 12:45 PM ^

This is by no means scientific but my wife was in vet school at MSU at the same time my brother was in law school at UM. My wife had mentioned that only one or two of her 100ish classmates went to Spartan football games (or even cared about MSU athletics). Not long after I was chatting with my brother's classmate and I asked him how many of the law students had season tickets and he said something like "pretty much all of them," and he was surprised I would even wonder something like that. Both statements may have been exaggerated a bit but the contrast certainly stuck out to me. Also this was 10 years ago so maybe things change, or maybe it is more reflective of the gender makeup of respective fields, but it was still surprising.

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Dix

December 6th, 2015 at 10:44 AM ^

If you ever lost in H-O-R-S-E to your little brother or sister on the driveway as a kid you'll understand. Doesn't matter how many times you beat them, all they ever do is remind you of the one time you didn't. It gets annoying. Avoiding being annoyed is a powerful motivator.



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PrincetonBlue

December 6th, 2015 at 10:48 AM ^

There are more State fans in Michigan than OSU fans, so we have to deal with their shit a lot more.

EDIT: Also, I've only been alive long enough to see OSU dominate Michigan.  It sounds bad, but I've sort of resigned myself when it comes to OSU.  I can't bring myself to hate them as much as MSU.

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iskey

December 6th, 2015 at 11:11 AM ^

All the fuck sparty this and fuck sparty that and constant obsessing and anger over Sparty is getting pretty ridiculous. The constant anger over their success is turning us into little brother. We just need to shut the hell up until we start winning.

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WestQuad

December 6th, 2015 at 11:44 AM ^

The little brother analogy stuck because it captured something.  But it is more like your insufferable know-it-all cousin who got Bs in school.  For me, I want to see him do well, but I don't want to see him do well at my expense, and have to hear about it all the time.  Desmond Howard pass interference, this year's thing, etc.

The F Sparty stuff on the board is a little unbecoming.   A couple of years of Harbaugh and the rhetoric will be toned down significantly.

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The Mad Hatter

December 6th, 2015 at 11:01 AM ^

Are insufferable cockgobblers that think CFB didn't exist prior to the hiring of Mark D'antoni. A decade ago none of us gave a shit about MSU, and many of us still don't. You'd really have to live/work with them to understand. I work with both MSU and OSU fans, and while my hatred for OSU is much deeper, the OSU fans at least know their asses from holes in the ground. MSU fans, not so much.

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The Mad Hatter

December 6th, 2015 at 11:49 AM ^

Seem to have a massive inferiority complex, which likely began with their Michigan application denial letters. They send their kids to MSU and are stunned when they're not making great money immediately upon graduation, conveniently forgetting the fact that their own degrees didn't do all that much for them. My sample size is small with OSU fans as I only know two reasonably well. Both of them hate Michigan, but respect it. One of them enough to send his daughter to Michigan.

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4godkingandwol…

December 6th, 2015 at 10:45 AM ^

My take... And probably not popular. They are better than us at two important sports, so we don't like it. Few people cared when it was only basketball. They have and always will be an afterthought to me. I have many friends that went to state and I'm happy for them. While they can be annoying and suffer from a collective inferiority complex, mixed in with arsonist compulsions, they are generally good people. We need to right our own ship and worry less about them.

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gwkrlghl

December 6th, 2015 at 11:05 AM ^

My Buckeye co-workers and I talk smack in a joking / light-hearted way. Spartans all take on the same sniveling matra that Dantonio always exudes. Don't know how to take a joke and manage to be dicks all the time. I can't say I've ever had 'friendly banter' with any Spartans.

I think it's just how deep your average Spartans resentment of Michigan goes. They've always been in our shadow while Notre Dame and Ohio State really haven't

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Leonhall

December 6th, 2015 at 10:45 AM ^

For me it's the fans and their obnoxious behavior. Also it is the schools recent success. I do know that we are in a different stage than them currently. We are on coach #3 during a time where they've had consistency. I'm also still pissed we lost to them this season. We had them fucking beat.



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ghost

December 6th, 2015 at 10:59 AM ^

We are at a different strage.  MSU's current stage though is coming to an end this year.  Some people on hear don't like to admit, but even programs like Bama and FSU would get hurt by losing some of the players they will lose this year.  And MSU is no Alabama.

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aiglick

December 6th, 2015 at 11:12 AM ^

This comment has been said for the last 5 - 6 years and they have something like 11 wins 5 out of the last 6 seasons.

They aren't going away and that's fine IMO.

Why? Becasue if you want to be the best you have to beat the best. We're going to have to rise to the challenge and when that happens it is going to be awesome.

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ghost

December 6th, 2015 at 11:31 AM ^

You honestly think MSU won't miss 3 first round draft picks?  Seriously?  Its going to make a massive difference when they have an inexperienced QB for once.  

Look at the fall off for FSU's offense without Winston.  Now Cook isn't Winston, but there is no Delvan Cook in the MSU backfield.  

How about Auburn?  Look at LSU and Florida's offenses. 

If you think MSU doesn't take a step back without Cook you are dreaming.

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bronxblue

December 6th, 2015 at 12:04 PM ^

They probably aren't falling off the face of the earth or anything, but their defense has been trending down for a couple years now, and if they lose that defensive line it isn't going to get prettier. They were helped this year by a legitimately good offense, one probably losing their top tackle and certainly top C, a top WR and QB, and a bunch of other pieces. We saw the last time they lost their QB - they scuttled under Maxwell. They'll be fine, but 9 wins fine, not 11 wins a year fine.

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ghost

December 6th, 2015 at 12:16 PM ^

What happened the last time they lost their starting QB?  And Cook is supposed to be better.  OSU is going to lose key players as well, but MSU does not recruit like they do.  And if they can embarassed by Bama in a semi-final game on national tv it is going to put a dent in their recruiting momentum.

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