Early Enrolless/Class Size Solved!

this says we can sign 28 this year and, assuming everyone qualifies, have them all on the roster under scholarship next sept??

I don't think so. You may not have more than 25 "initial counters" in the fall. You can sign 28 in February, but basically 3 of them have to be gone by August. At least that's the way I interpret what's written.

bc it says they can count towards either year. we only signed 22 last year and witty didn't make it in. therefore, we can sign 28, count a maximum of 3 to last year, and bring in 25 for next year.

This is a post on rivals board and there is much more. I know this is whac to steal someones post, but maybe people can interpret this. Here it is: from poster ( chadwal85 and anison)

Here is the very informative explanation from Chad Hawley, Big Ten Director of Compliance:

Nothing has changed, although you’ve never been able to “backdate” and count a student-athlete (SA) in a year in which they weren’t in attendance. What I suspect you’re thinking of is the fact that mid-year enrollees (except SAs receiving aid under the “mid-year replacement” rule?described below) count against the overall limit of 85, but may count against the initial limit of 25 in either the year of initial enrollment (if there’s room) or in the year immediately following. Here’s a very basic example:

University A’s fb team has 80 student-athletes (SAs) on scholarship during the 2009-10 academic year. Joe Prospect graduates from h.s. early and enrolls at University A in Jan. 2010 as a scholarship fb player. University A is now at 81 scholarships (out of 85) for the 2009-10 academic year and Joe may be counted against the initial limit of 25 for either 2009-10 (if there’s room) or 2010-11.

Financial aid rules are fairly nuanced, but here are some of the basics relating specifically to football that will allow you to be informed when chatting with friends:

-football is a “head count” sport, which means that if a SA gets $1 or a full-ride, he counts as 1 against the limit of 85.

-unless a SA meets an exception that exempts him from counting (e.g., medical non-counter, exhausted eligibility SA), that SA will always count against the limit of 85 in the year in which the aid is received.

-in general, an “initial counter” is a SA who is in his first year of receiving aid in a sport.

-the initial counter limit is 25, but the overall limit of 85 is always in play, so for example, if I will be returning 65 guys on scholarship in 2010-11, I only have room for 20 initial counters in 2010-11.

-initial counters who enroll in the fall count against the initial limit (up to 25) for the academic year in which they enroll; except as described under the midyear replacement rule below, initial counters who enroll mid-year may count against the initial limit in either the year they enroll or in the following year.

-there is something called a “midyear graduate replacement.” This may actually be the source of confusion because under the “midyear replacement” rule, the SA who is receiving aid for the first time at mid-year has to count against the initial limit in the following academic year. The “midyear replacement” rule is only used, though, when a team is at its limit of 85 and someone counting against the 85 has recently graduated?the SA receiving aid for the first time at midyear is then “replacing” the SA who counted against the 85 in the fall but has now graduated.

-all of the above describe NCAA rules; the Big Ten rule is that at no time can you be in a situation where more than 3 scholarships over the limit have been offered. So, if I have room for 25 initial counters next year, I can sign 28; if I have room for 20 initial counters next year, I can sign 23.

No, it says we CAN'T "backdate" players. They can only count for the semester/year for which they initially enrolled. So if a guy enrolls in January 2010, he can't count for the 2009 class.

That being said, I wonder if "enrolled" means when the kid STARTS classes or when the kid SIGNS UP for classes... If he can count for the year in which he SIGNS UP for classes, then perhaps January enrollees could count for '09. Thoughts?

I read that you can do it. The last sentence of this paragraph.

University A’s fb team has 80 student-athletes (SAs) on scholarship during the 2009-10 academic year. Joe Prospect graduates from h.s. early and enrolls at University A in Jan. 2010 as a scholarship fb player. University A is now at 81 scholarships (out of 85) for the 2009-10 academic year and !!Joe may be counted against the initial limit of 25 for either 2009-10 (if there’s room) or 2010-11.!!

From what you've posted, if I have interpreted it correctly(that's a long shot) is that we can sign 28 if and only if we have 3 ee's counting towards last years count since we only had 22 in that class. Those three plus the 25 counting towards this years class must meet the required 85 scholarship limit by the deadline meaning that we would have to have enough players graduating or not receiving their 5th year to get to that number of 85. If those criteria are met then we could presumably have 28 players in this class.

My head hurts!

I think you guys are correct. Bcsblue's post was more informative than the original post, and based on bcsblue's post, I agree with you guys. The quotes that were in the original post weren't the whole story, and that's what I was basing my reading on.

+1 to both of you.

It would make sense that would could sign 28 and count 3 of the EE towards last year's count given how we have been recruiting. As people have stated before, if we could only sign 25 some of the activities of the coaches in recruiting would seem not just weird, but kind of dumb. But in light of this information, the recruiting strategy makes perfect sense, which IMO, makes it more likely that we can in fact sign 28.

I've merely substituted the specific for the generic in the compliance guy's example...

University of Michigan fb team has 78 student-athletes on scholarship during the 2009-10 academic year(I believe the current count is 78). Ricardo Miller graduates from h.s. early and enrolls at University of Michigan in Jan. 2010 as a scholarship fb player. University of Michigan is now at 79 scholarships (out of 85) for the 2009-10 academic year and Ricardo may be counted against the initial limit of 25 for either 2009-10 (if there’s room, which in UM's case there would be as only 21 enrolled in the 2009-2010 class) or 2010-11.

So...it looks like UM CAN sign 28 as long as 3 enroll early to count against the 2009-2010 year (aka as the 2009 class which only enrolled 21, 4 short of the 25 allowed per year). Provided, of course, that we do not exceed the 85 team total.

This is the best "news" we've received in a while. You guys have totally made my day.

but if an early enrollee is counted in the class of the previous year, do they lose a year of eligibility? For instance, if Tate had been counted toward the class of '08 would he only have two years of eligibility left? Or would '08 have to be considered a red-shirt year?

I know Witty and Miller will be enrolling early but who are the others?

EDIT: Sorry, did not see the posty above that states the answer I was looking for.