Doyle: RR Passes the Buck (no pun intended)

We get the point that you hate RR and everything that has possibly gone wrong with the program (including what he can't control) the past two years is his fault. Now will you please just stop spewing it out every five seconds? Focus on something besides your hatred of RR.

I gotta say, I really didn't like the comment about the previous Februaries having "hurt us." The more I think about it, the more I wish it hadn't been said. Like it or not, that's a shot at Lloyd Carr that he probably doesn't deserve. This wasn't the time nor the place to make a comment like that.

A little more TomVH and a little less tomhagen.

One brings me a delicious sample platter of the many meals I'll be having tomorrow; the other spews unrequested garbage to nobody in particular. Thanks, I'm all set on the latter.

At the same time, I don't lend credence to articles penned by people who claim that Rodriguez a) ran off a bunch of players (those sympathetic to Justin Boren) and b) take the Freep allegations as fact without even considering that the allegations are extremely shaky and that nobody reputable who is actually involved with football takes them seriously.

Also, I don't take you seriously, because I have yet to see you make an argument against Rodriguez more substantial than, "he's losing". You instead rely on general crap that other people write. If you're going to take a view on the matter, at least make a point that you can defend in a legitimate argument. If you would like to actually debate the topic in depth, I'm sure that you'll find plenty of people (including myself) who are willing to oblige.

Oh, and the kool-aid analogy is getting tiresome. As in very tiresome. And for what it's worth, if we're really drinking the kool-aid, it doesn't really matter how it tastes does it.

How did you get so many points?

Do people give +1 when they see vomit?

this is the wrong tom posting. gtfo. we want mr vanharen back.

Februaries have hurt the program. Thats just fact.

Neither you nor this Doyle, er, Doyel guy know what Rodriguez is SAYING. All you know is what he said. You don't know that what he meant was anything different than what he said.

You spew forth your hatred on assumptions and interpretations. Where's the fact? There's no fact in that article.

Other than what Rodriguez said. The recruiting had fallen off. There is a lot of negative media attention. The program had begun to slide long before Rodriguez got here. These are statements of fact.

EDIT: Maybe the juniors who approached him weren't ready to go pro. Maybe he wasn't saying the players sucked. OBVIOUSLY. And, even if the recruiting hadn't fallen off, the attrition certainly does hurt, so even that's not necessarily a swipe at Lloyd.

While none of us enjoys the losing we've seen the last couple of years, opining like this isn't useful. Rodriguez wasn't considered a "hick", or an idiot, or a swindler, or anything like that until he left WVU for Michigan. At which point he suddenly became the most loathesome man on the planet.

As others have said, back up your hate with something tangible. But remember, he was brought in to rebuild this program from the ground up. Often to do that, you first need to tear it down.

You're going to believe the noted Michigan and RR hating Doyel without seeing the press conference for yourself? I don't think I'd believe anything that comes up in the media these days re: Michigan without seeing the proof for myself.

Maybe I'm just being crazy, but it seems to me that there have been several questionable articles written about M and RR in the past couple years. Things such as "OMG!! RR Eats BABIES!!" written by a couple people who get paid to write stuff for a detroit yellow rag.

And I think perhaps a couple Februaries HAVE hurt them. People committing then deciding not to come on signing day? That hurts. Recruiting and signing players who don't develop? That hurts. Not getting players at areas of significant need? It's true.

Posting the same drivel that is your opinion day after day after day, we understand that YOU hate RichRod and want him gone.

To quote Christian Bale "Oh, good for you!"

Everybody gets it and nobody cares about your daily anti-RR propaganda.

You and Doyel can GFY.

When he failed to land JB Daniels in favor of Justin Feagin.

It's not like he doesn't have a safety that's above a freshman, or walk-ons playing, or young kids playing all over the place.

Get your pitch-forks TOM HAGEN IS HERE!!!! If you honestly think that firing him right now is a good idea you're an idiot. That will just kill the program.

Oh no he said "we don't have the talent in place" yeah he really threw carr under the bus...

that he and Lloyd had the discussion about the past 3 or 4 Februaries, and that they're on the same page? Is it possible that Lloyd has the same perspective, and that was one of the reasons he left when he did - he just didn't have it in him to recruit the way he needed to anymore?

I agree with the general thoughts of most here who are stating their disagreement with what Tom has said. For the past couple of months he has been quite negative (to put it mildly) about RR and his thoughts of the future under him.

Having said that, I am not sure why some here are telling him to stop posting or get the hell out of here. This is a board for UM fans to debate their thoughts about the team. Everyone has the opportunity to dispute what he is saying in this public forum for everyone to see (and people are obviously doing that).

I think if it was an article in the paper that, once out there could be thought of as fact (though after all the crap we have seen in the Freep, I can't imagine anyone considering articles are fact) that would be different, but here we can all type our various opinions and tell him why his don't match up with ours.

I just have a hard time thinking that a person sharing their opinion is a bad thing, even if it is nowhere near aligning with my own......just sayin'

RR did not say anything but the truth. Recruiting and attrition have hurt this team. I wish that the alumni (the powers to be) would just admit that the program RR was left, was in bad shape. I wish they would also admit that they do not question RR ability to get the job done, but they do question his character. Why else would all of the stories be leaked to the Free Press !

I like that the quotes are arranged artfully and interspersed with just enough commentary and analysis couched as reporting to make it seem like Rodriguez is a towering dick. Cripes, I wish people would stop falling for this stuff. I mean, "all but pulled out a picture of Lloyd Carr"? Really? Seriously?

Yes, it's too bad that our last few Februaries haven't panned out the way we'd like them to. They were full of top rated players, sadly, none of those kids who were top rated at LB and S have panned out, stayed with the program, or gotten into school in the first place. It sucks that we had to fill 30-35 spots on the roster the moment RichRod was announced, given that we're only allowed to sign 25. Discipline problems that surfaced late in Lloyd's tenure have continued, and that sucks too. These are structural problems, and you can either acknowledge them or go live in a fantasyland. I prefer to live in the real world.

Them's the breaks. Get over it. Les Miles isn't coming here. Harbaugh isn't coming here. If we fire RR now, we lose another recruiting class or two, and then whee, we're stuck in this &*#$ for another 2-4 years before we even start to get better again. I wish Rodriguez was the miracle-worker that we all wanted him to be, but it turns out he's not. He's still the best answer we have: continuity, continuity, continuity.

Tom:

You have gone from being the epitome of "All in for Michigan" to what many here are now calling "The Tom Hagan Meltdown." You used to be an entertaining, patient, and loyal poster who knew that the rebuilding would take time. Somehow, though, you have gone over to the "dark side of the force."

I know it's been tough to watch these losses; I would venture to guess that everyone here feels your pain, because most of us love UM as much as you do. I know that this is a new experience for you, because you don't remember the sixties and what Bump Elliot did to the program.

The main difference was that when Bo took over the program, there were 115 scholarships to give out instead of 85. When attrition reared its head, there were plenty more fresh bodies to replace those who left. In addition, freshmen didn't play, reducing any age difference, and an experienced QB came back. So, Bo was able to get results the first year because he had a cupboard that was fully stocked, and all that was really needed was an attitude adjustment.

We all know what RR had to face when he got to UM. You of all people should understand that RR is not making excuses, but simply giving honest answers to the questions that reporters constantly ask him. Going back to Bo: do you think he would have allowed reporters to hammer him like they do RR? Of course not. He would have yelled at them and refused to answer questions. And many of the reporters would have suddenly seen their press credentials disappear.

You may percieve honesty as "throwing players under the bus" or "throwing Carr under the bus," but all it really is is a statement of fact. You can blame RR for attrition, but the players who left either wanted NFL money or realized it wasn't going to be a country club like it was under Carr and left.

No matter how hard you try, though, you can't blame RR for a bare cupboard, especially on defense and at QB. UM started an injured freshman at QB the last eight games of the season. Look at a tape of the ND game and then look at any game after the injury. Notice that Forcier's velocity has decreased a little. He could have gotten away with that in HS, but it made his job a lot tougher at UM.

As for Momma's Boy Mallett, he was gone no matter who was coaching. If you want to remember anything from 2007, Carr was barely able to keep Mallett from quitting on the team and going home in the middle of the season.

Anyway, the Tom Hagan who made clear, concise posts was great. His appearance here gained points faster than anyone I have seen who didn't post multiple posts in every thread. The Tom Hagan who was "All in for Michigan" was even one of the "trusted posters" who was unmoderated in Mlive chats. That privilege was only given to the most level-headed of posters.

Now, though, you sound like Lenny Bruce after he got bitter. Except Bruce was still sorta funny. You are not. You are now beating a dead horse. You are now flogging your log. But you aren't making much sense, nor, from all appearances, are you resonating with very many of your fellow fans here at mgoblog.

Please tell the present Tom Hagan to take a flying "leap" through a rolling doughnut. And while you're at it, tell him to untie the old Tom Hagan and let him come back to mgoblog, because he was a really fun, entertaining, concise, thoughtful poster.

Many people here forget the old Tom Hagan and just see you as a toxic presence in the now. I haven't forgotten. I just hope you haven't, either.

I want to find all these morons email addresses. If and when RR starts to win games, just spam the fuck out of them with a giant I told you so go fuck yourself email.

Can we arrange this somehow.